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Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China


The QUAD is DEAD - Long live AUUKUS !!!!




And the French will get f-----d alongside India - two of the most favourite countries on this forum !!!!!!!!

It is a shame the Aussies wont be buying Astute class subs, but American - buy hey - you cannot have everything.
I was expecting something but not something this big, the French raped India selling Rafael and were trying another fast one with the Aussies on the Submarine deal. Now they are properly screwed. I think the Aussies will buy a mixture most likely either American boats with UK systems or vice versa exact details are limited right now but this opens a lot of doors for other countries like India and Pakistan as well to acquire nuclear subs.
 
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The French are NOT happy 8-) ...




Nothing makes me more happy than annoying the French :cheers:
 
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China alone is battling against US+EU+Australia+SEA, they are in dire need of friends.

Wrong. This is a China vs US rivalry. Russia and China are coordinating in most areas together. These 3 countries are the major powers in the world. It has been this way since WW2. US slaves pose no threat to China militarily. China’s military power is already massive and will get significantly stronger as the years go by. Time is on China’s side which is why the US is panicking.

China don’t need vassals states that won’t make a difference against the US. What are those vassal states going to provide China in a battle against the US? They will become a burden for China. In the end, the game will be decided by China’s own comprehensive national strength including economic, financial, technological, military strength.

What China needs is a big boost in military spending. Current military spending is a shameful 1.3% of GDP (1.36 trillion yuan/$210 billion). It should be increased to 5% of GDP (5 trillion yuan/$780 billion). China’s economy is 101 trillion yuan end of 2020.
 
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Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China - BBC News


Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China
Published1 hour ago
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media captionThe US, UK and Australian leaders welcomed what President Biden described as a "historic step"
The UK, US and Australia have announced a historic security pact in the Asia-Pacific, in what's seen as an effort to counter China.

It will let Australia build nuclear-powered submarines for the first time, using technology provided by the US.



The Aukus pact, which will also cover AI and other technologies, is one of the countries' biggest defence partnerships in decades, analysts say.
China has condemned the agreement as "extremely irresponsible".
Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it "seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race".
China's embassy in Washington accused the countries of a "Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice".
The pact also created a row with France, which has now lost a deal with Australia to build 12 submarines.
"It's really a stab in the back," France's Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told France Info radio.
The new partnership was announced in a joint virtual press conference between US President Joe Biden, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his Australian counterpart Scott Morrison on Wednesday.
And while China was not mentioned directly, the three leaders referred repeatedly to regional security concerns which they said had "grown significantly".

media captionAustralia’s ‘risky bet’ to side with US over China
Speaking to the BBC, UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said China was "embarking on one of the biggest military spends in history".
"It is growing its navy [and] air force at a huge rate. Obviously it is engaged in some disputed areas," he said. "Our partners in those regions want to be able to stand their own ground."
In recent years, Beijing has been accused of raising tensions in disputed territories such as the South China Sea.
On Thursday, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the pact would "preserve security and stability around the world" and generate "hundreds of high-skilled jobs".
He also said the relationship with France was "rock solid".
The Aukus alliance is probably the most significant security arrangement between the three nations since World War Two, analysts say.
The pact will focus on military capability, separating it from the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance which also includes New Zealand and Canada.
While Australia's submarines is the big-ticket item, Aukus will also involve the sharing of cyber capabilities and other undersea technologies.
"This is an historic opportunity for the three nations, with like-minded allies and partners, to protect shared values and promote security and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region," the joint statement read.
"This really shows that all three nations are drawing a line in the sand to start and counter [China's] aggressive moves in the Indo-Pacific," said Guy Boekenstein from the Asia Society Australia.
Jean-Yves Le Drian
IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
image captionFrance's Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said trust with Australia "had been betrayed"
Western nations have been wary of China's infrastructure investment on Pacific islands, and have also criticised China's trade sanctions against countries like Australia.
Australia had in the past maintained good relations with China, its biggest trading partner. But the relationship has broken down in recent years amid political tensions.
But there is tension now too with France, after Australia tore up the A$50bn (€31bn; £27bn) deal to build 12 submarines.
"We had established a relationship of trust with Australia, this trust has been betrayed," Mr Le Drian said.
Why nuclear-powered submarines?
These submarines are much faster and harder to detect than conventionally powered fleets. They can stay submerged for months, shoot missiles longer distances and also carry more.
Having them stationed in Australia is critical to US influence in the region, analysts say.
The US is sharing its submarine technology for the first time in 50 years. It had previously only shared technology with the UK.
Australia will become just the seventh nation in the world to operate nuclear-powered submarines, after the US, UK, France, China, India and Russia.
Australia has reaffirmed it has no intention of obtaining nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile New Zealand said it would ban Australia's submarines from its waters, in line with an existing policy on the presence of nuclear-powered submarines.
New Zealand, although a Five Eyes member, has been more cautious in aligning with either the US or China in the Pacific.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said her nation had not been approached to join the pact.



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So it begin. The rush of getting out Afghanistan and now focus is on China.


Why Australia need nuclear subs when its is not a nuclear power? Or is it Americans providing nukes to Aussies? A very dangerous game these idiots are playing without knowing the consequences.
 
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It's basically a angle against Russia/China/North Korean Alliance in region

However nothing is new here

UK/Australia/Canada have always had closed to each other because they are all connected to the Royal House in UK
indirectly

The addition of US is also not that invisible, lots of weapons have been sold from US to other parties
 
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It doesn't matter that it has Pump jet or not, but it is far more advance than your upcoming Type 95, China is quite new for development of nuke subs ( since late 80s (Type 92 class, Xia class)) Russia is developing Nuke subs since mid 50s, so tell us who has more experience??

China built first nuclear sub Type 091 in the 1960s, launched in 1970, commissioned in 1974.



@waz @krash @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle

clear unsubstantiated anti China propaganda by @White and Green with M/S

I suggest a 1 week or 2 weeks ban for @White and Green with M/S as disciplinary action.
 
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'Very bitter' Macron's lucrative Australian deal torn up by Brexit Britain and US


The Franco-Australian deal has been forced to face significant flaws over the years.

There were significant tensions between French shipbuilder Naval Group and Australia over skyrocketing costs, design changes and local industry involvement in the construction of 12 diesel Shortfin Barracuda submarines.

Sounds like the French were trying to f--- over the Aussies as they had done with the Indian's but the Aussies got wise and called "time" on it.
 
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They kicked out India from these goodies???... Or is India in the Quad just a 3rd class coolie?

I say this is racism!...

Gora Triad would have never given space to India. They at best will give them pat on the back to confront china and watch the show. Indians will be new canon fodders for QUAD. Indian situation right now is like Dhobi ka kuta na ghar ka na ghaat ka. They alienated Russia who was their best ally money could buy. On the other hand they paid US but still they are treating them like third class citizens.
 
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China built first nuclear sub Type 091 in the 1960s, launched in 1970, commissioned in 1974.



@waz @krash @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle

clear unsubstantiated anti China propaganda by @White and Green with M/S

I suggest a 1 week or 2 weeks ban for @White and Green with M/S as disciplinary action.
LOL ànd based on which design you know what is the SINO-SOVIET SPLIT, RUSSIAN/SOVIET GAVE ALL TECHNOLOGIES (MILITARY) TO BUILD ALL YOUR MILITARY HARDWARE
 
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WASHINGTON — The Biden administration took a major step on Wednesday in challenging China’s broad territorial claims in the Pacific, announcing that the United States and Britain would help Australia to deploy nuclear-powered submarines, adding to the Western presence in the region.

If the plan comes to fruition, Australia may begin conducting routine patrols that could move through areas of the South China Sea that Beijing claims as its exclusive zone and range as far north as Taiwan. The announcement, made by President Biden, Prime Minister Boris Johnson of Britain and Prime Minister Scott Morrison of Australia, is a major step for Australia, which until recent years has been hesitant to push back directly at core Chinese interests.

Australia has felt increasingly threatened, however, and three years ago was among the first nations to ban Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, from its networks. Now, with the prospect of deploying a new submarine fleet, Australia would become a far more muscular player in the American-led alliance in the Pacific. The vessels are equipped with nuclear propulsion systems that offer limitless range and run so quietly that they are hard to detect. For Mr. Johnson, the new defense arrangement would bolster his effort to develop a “Global Britain” strategy that focuses on the Pacific, the next step after Brexit took the country out of the European Union.

“This is about investing in our greatest source of strength, our alliances, and updating them to better meet the threats of today and tomorrow,” Mr. Biden said in the East Room, flanked by two televisions showing the British and Australian leaders at their remote press briefings. “It’s about connecting America’s existing allies and partners in new ways.”


Mr. Biden and Mr. Morrison said Australia would not arm the submarines with nuclear weapons. Australia is a signatory to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which bans it from acquiring or deploying nuclear weapons.

The submarines almost certainly would carry conventional, submarine-launched cruise missiles.

“Let me be clear: Australia is not seeking to acquire nuclear weapons or establish a civil nuclear capability,” Mr. Morrison said.


Yet even conventionally armed submarines, staffed by Australian sailors, could alter the naval balance of power in the Pacific.

“Attack submarines are big deal, and they send a big message,” said Vipin Narang, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor who studies the use of nuclear weapons and delivery systems among major powers. “This would be hard to imagine five years ago, and it would have been impossible 10 years ago. And that says a lot about China’s behavior in the region.”


Zhao Lijian, a spokesman for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told a regular news briefing in Beijing on Thursday that the submarine agreement would “seriously damage regional peace and stability, exacerbate an arms race and harm international nuclear nonproliferation agreements,” Global Times, a Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party, reported.

“This is utterly irresponsible conduct,” Mr. Zhao said.

In Australia, the move was considered a momentous shift by some strategists. “The Australian decision to go this way is not just a decision to go for a nuclear-powered submarine,” said Hugh White, a professor at Australian National University and a former Australian defense official. “It’s a decision to deepen and consolidate our strategic alignment with the United States against China.”

He added, “This just further deepens the sense that we do have a new Cold War in Asia and that Australia is betting that in that new Cold War, the U.S. is going to emerge victorious.”

The announcement is the latest action in a U.S. strategy to push back on Chinese economic, military and technological expansion, carried out by Mr. Biden; his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan; and his Asia coordinator, Kurt Campbell. Over the past eight months, they have blocked China from acquiring key technologies, including materials for semiconductor production; urged nations to reject Huawei; edged toward closer dealings with Taiwan; and denounced China’s crackdown on Hong Kong.


Next week, Mr. Biden will gather the leaders of “the Quad” — an informal partnership of the United States, Japan, India and Australia — at the White House for an in-person meeting, another way to demonstrate common resolve in dealing with Beijing.

Mr. Biden spoke with President Xi Jinping of China last week for roughly 90 minutes, only the second time the two leaders have spoken in since Mr. Biden took office. Few details of the conversation were revealed, so it is unclear whether Mr. Biden gave his Chinese counterpart warning of the move with Australia. But none of it would have come as a surprise to Beijing; earlier, the Australians had announced a deal with France for less technologically sophisticated submarines. That deal collapsed.

Nonetheless, the decision to share the technology for naval reactors, even to a close ally, was a major move for Mr. Biden — one bound to raise protests by China and questions from American allies and nonproliferation experts. The United States last shared the nuclear propulsion technology with an ally in 1958 in a similar agreement with Britain, administration officials said.

“There is a shared understanding that we need to strengthen deterrence and actually be prepared to fight a conflict if one occurs,” said Bonnie Glaser, director of the Asia program at the German Marshall Fund, a policy think tank. “It reflects growing concern about Chinese military capabilities and intentions.”


The nuclear reactors that power American and British submarines use bomb-grade, highly enriched uranium, a remnant of Cold War-era designs. And for two decades, Washington has been on a drive to eliminate reactors around the world that use bomb-grade fuel, substituting them with less dangerous fuel to limit the risk of proliferation.

The movement gained momentum after the Sept. 11 attacks. President Barack Obama ran a series of “nuclear summits” for world leaders, used to pressure nations to remove from service old reactors that used highly enriched uranium so that the fuel could never fall into the hands of terrorists.

But the arrangement with Australia seems almost sure to move in the other direction: Australia is likely to power its submarines with highly enriched uranium, because for now, there is little choice. Aware of the contradiction, administration officials cast the decision as an “exception,” though one they would not make for other major allies. That includes South Korea, which in decades past was caught moving toward building its own nuclear arsenal. Australia has been a leader in the nonproliferation movement.

A senior administration official deeply involved in the negotiations over the deal said on Wednesday that the United States had not made a deal like this in decades and that, “after today, it’s not likely we will do it again.”


Officials said that the details would be worked out over the next 18 months, including strict controls on nuclear technology. They said Australia had already agreed not to produce the highly enriched fuel, meaning it will probably buy it from American stockpiles. Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III will lead the administration in the partnership, which also involves collaborating on cybertechnology and artificial intelligence.

The United States has explored moving away from highly enriched uranium. A study by the Pentagon’s top nuclear advisory group concluded in 2019 that the United States should shift to reactors that burn low-enriched uranium, which cannot be easily diverted to use in weapons. But that process, the experts concluded, could not begin until after 2040.

“There will be many who say we are giving the Australians a gateway drug for a nuclear capability,’’ Mr. Narang said. “It is not something we would let other major allies get away with, much less help make it possible.”

But China’s aggressive tactics in the Pacific and America’s desire to ensure security for Taiwan required the United States to empower Australia, even if it meant carving an exception to the effort to reduce the use of weapons-grade nuclear fuel, according to Elbridge Colby, the former deputy assistant secretary of defense strategy and force development.

“If nonproliferation has to take a back seat, that’s the right call,” said Mr. Colby.

Australia has, for more than seven decades, been a member of the “Five Eyes,” the intelligence alliance that includes the major English-speaking victors of World War II. The other four are the United States, Britain, Canada and New Zealand. They regularly exchange information on cyberthreats and a range of terrorism threats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/us/politics/biden-australia-britain-china.html
 
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Usa is playing a very dangerous game
WASHINGTON — The Biden administration took a major step on Wednesday in challenging China’s broad territorial claims in the Pacific, announcing that the United States and Britain would help Australia to deploy nuclear-powered submarines, adding to the Western presence in the region.

If the plan comes to fruition, Australia may begin conducting routine patrols that could move through areas of the South China Sea that Beijing claims as its exclusive zone and range as far north as Taiwan. The announcement, made by President Biden, Prime Minister Boris Johnson of Britain and Prime Minister Scott Morrison of Australia, is a major step for Australia, which until recent years has been hesitant to push back directly at core Chinese interests.

Australia has felt increasingly threatened, however, and three years ago was among the first nations to ban Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, from its networks. Now, with the prospect of deploying a new submarine fleet, Australia would become a far more muscular player in the American-led alliance in the Pacific. The vessels are equipped with nuclear propulsion systems that offer limitless range and run so quietly that they are hard to detect. For Mr. Johnson, the new defense arrangement would bolster his effort to develop a “Global Britain” strategy that focuses on the Pacific, the next step after Brexit took the country out of the European Union.

“This is about investing in our greatest source of strength, our alliances, and updating them to better meet the threats of today and tomorrow,” Mr. Biden said in the East Room, flanked by two televisions showing the British and Australian leaders at their remote press briefings. “It’s about connecting America’s existing allies and partners in new ways.”


Mr. Biden and Mr. Morrison said Australia would not arm the submarines with nuclear weapons. Australia is a signatory to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which bans it from acquiring or deploying nuclear weapons.

The submarines almost certainly would carry conventional, submarine-launched cruise missiles.

“Let me be clear: Australia is not seeking to acquire nuclear weapons or establish a civil nuclear capability,” Mr. Morrison said.


Yet even conventionally armed submarines, staffed by Australian sailors, could alter the naval balance of power in the Pacific.

“Attack submarines are big deal, and they send a big message,” said Vipin Narang, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor who studies the use of nuclear weapons and delivery systems among major powers. “This would be hard to imagine five years ago, and it would have been impossible 10 years ago. And that says a lot about China’s behavior in the region.”


Zhao Lijian, a spokesman for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told a regular news briefing in Beijing on Thursday that the submarine agreement would “seriously damage regional peace and stability, exacerbate an arms race and harm international nuclear nonproliferation agreements,” Global Times, a Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party, reported.

“This is utterly irresponsible conduct,” Mr. Zhao said.

In Australia, the move was considered a momentous shift by some strategists. “The Australian decision to go this way is not just a decision to go for a nuclear-powered submarine,” said Hugh White, a professor at Australian National University and a former Australian defense official. “It’s a decision to deepen and consolidate our strategic alignment with the United States against China.”

He added, “This just further deepens the sense that we do have a new Cold War in Asia and that Australia is betting that in that new Cold War, the U.S. is going to emerge victorious.”

The announcement is the latest action in a U.S. strategy to push back on Chinese economic, military and technological expansion, carried out by Mr. Biden; his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan; and his Asia coordinator, Kurt Campbell. Over the past eight months, they have blocked China from acquiring key technologies, including materials for semiconductor production; urged nations to reject Huawei; edged toward closer dealings with Taiwan; and denounced China’s crackdown on Hong Kong.


Next week, Mr. Biden will gather the leaders of “the Quad” — an informal partnership of the United States, Japan, India and Australia — at the White House for an in-person meeting, another way to demonstrate common resolve in dealing with Beijing.

Mr. Biden spoke with President Xi Jinping of China last week for roughly 90 minutes, only the second time the two leaders have spoken in since Mr. Biden took office. Few details of the conversation were revealed, so it is unclear whether Mr. Biden gave his Chinese counterpart warning of the move with Australia. But none of it would have come as a surprise to Beijing; earlier, the Australians had announced a deal with France for less technologically sophisticated submarines. That deal collapsed.

Nonetheless, the decision to share the technology for naval reactors, even to a close ally, was a major move for Mr. Biden — one bound to raise protests by China and questions from American allies and nonproliferation experts. The United States last shared the nuclear propulsion technology with an ally in 1958 in a similar agreement with Britain, administration officials said.

“There is a shared understanding that we need to strengthen deterrence and actually be prepared to fight a conflict if one occurs,” said Bonnie Glaser, director of the Asia program at the German Marshall Fund, a policy think tank. “It reflects growing concern about Chinese military capabilities and intentions.”


The nuclear reactors that power American and British submarines use bomb-grade, highly enriched uranium, a remnant of Cold War-era designs. And for two decades, Washington has been on a drive to eliminate reactors around the world that use bomb-grade fuel, substituting them with less dangerous fuel to limit the risk of proliferation.

The movement gained momentum after the Sept. 11 attacks. President Barack Obama ran a series of “nuclear summits” for world leaders, used to pressure nations to remove from service old reactors that used highly enriched uranium so that the fuel could never fall into the hands of terrorists.

But the arrangement with Australia seems almost sure to move in the other direction: Australia is likely to power its submarines with highly enriched uranium, because for now, there is little choice. Aware of the contradiction, administration officials cast the decision as an “exception,” though one they would not make for other major allies. That includes South Korea, which in decades past was caught moving toward building its own nuclear arsenal. Australia has been a leader in the nonproliferation movement.

A senior administration official deeply involved in the negotiations over the deal said on Wednesday that the United States had not made a deal like this in decades and that, “after today, it’s not likely we will do it again.”


Officials said that the details would be worked out over the next 18 months, including strict controls on nuclear technology. They said Australia had already agreed not to produce the highly enriched fuel, meaning it will probably buy it from American stockpiles. Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III will lead the administration in the partnership, which also involves collaborating on cybertechnology and artificial intelligence.

The United States has explored moving away from highly enriched uranium. A study by the Pentagon’s top nuclear advisory group concluded in 2019 that the United States should shift to reactors that burn low-enriched uranium, which cannot be easily diverted to use in weapons. But that process, the experts concluded, could not begin until after 2040.

“There will be many who say we are giving the Australians a gateway drug for a nuclear capability,’’ Mr. Narang said. “It is not something we would let other major allies get away with, much less help make it possible.”

But China’s aggressive tactics in the Pacific and America’s desire to ensure security for Taiwan required the United States to empower Australia, even if it meant carving an exception to the effort to reduce the use of weapons-grade nuclear fuel, according to Elbridge Colby, the former deputy assistant secretary of defense strategy and force development.

“If nonproliferation has to take a back seat, that’s the right call,” said Mr. Colby.

Australia has, for more than seven decades, been a member of the “Five Eyes,” the intelligence alliance that includes the major English-speaking victors of World War II. The other four are the United States, Britain, Canada and New Zealand. They regularly exchange information on cyberthreats and a range of terrorism threats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/us/politics/biden-australia-britain-china.html
Usa is playing a very dangerous game
 
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