ATR-72 for Pakistan Navy

[Luftwaffe]

to enable replacement of two of the Navy’s elderly Fokker F27

Makes me chuckle @ elderly Fokker...

 

[fatman17]

Makes me chuckle @ elderly Fokker...

but they are.....!

Still the atr are multiple in number, 3-4 and not one.

yes thats the requirement - when it will be fulfilled is anybody's guess.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

the requesit no. of crews for multiple no. of atr are now rated to fly the ac. they are all back in Pak now.

 

[Lebanks]

Using F-27 as donor aircraft for re-equipping the ATR's is a feasible option for PN. Examples of similar donor programs involved removal of the Harpoon & CIWS weapons platforms from retired Gearing class DDG's & retrofitting them to the Type-21 FFG's.

The MPA suite on the PN F-27 is nowhere near as comprehensive as that on the current P-3C's or even the Atlantics. Any MPA capability will be a relatively limited by comparison. The need for a multifunctional troop/cargo aircraft is what the current stated requirement is. SSGN role has seen increased impetus in the last decade or so & fortunately PN has had the foresight to factor this in when looking at acquisition of aviation assets. Of course helping shift large loads in particular during national emergencies is vital.

As with all things, funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole and not just PN. F-27 are getting long in the tooth & it's only a matter of time before the 7 serving examples are retired & need replacing. By going for an air frame in use by the national airline may have been a coincidence, but will nonetheless by a welcome relief for PN as the sole example ATR aircraft will likely be maintained or at least leverage the experience of PIA. This was much the same when PN & MSA initially inducted F-27's & sent their aircraft to PIA for service/maintainer until they built their own organic infrastructure.

 

[khanasifm]

Using F-27 as donor aircraft for re-equipping the ATR's is a feasible option for PN. Examples of similar donor programs involved removal of the Harpoon & CIWS weapons platforms from retired Gearing class DDG's & retrofitting them to the Type-21 FFG's.

The MPA suite on the PN F-27 is nowhere near as comprehensive as that on the current P-3C's or even the Atlantics. Any MPA capability will be a relatively limited by comparison. The need for a multifunctional troop/cargo aircraft is what the current stated requirement is. SSGN role has seen increased impetus in the last decade or so & fortunately PN has had the foresight to factor this in when looking at acquisition of aviation assets. Of course helping shift large loads in particular during national emergencies is vital.

As with all things, funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole and not just PN. F-27 are getting long in the tooth & it's only a matter of time before the 7 serving examples are retired & need replacing. By going for an air frame in use by the national airline may have been a coincidence, but will nonetheless by a welcome relief for PN as the sole example ATR aircraft will likely be maintained or at least leverage the experience of PIA. This was much the same when PN & MSA initially inducted F-27's & sent their aircraft to PIA for service/maintainer until they built their own organic infrastructure.

F27 radar and sensor, Ocean Master radar

Pakistan Naval Aviation ASW ... At A Glance

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Portfolio/Documents/Brochure_Ocean_Master_09-2011/

Radar Basics

 

[fatman17]

Using F-27 as donor aircraft for re-equipping the ATR's is a feasible option for PN. Examples of similar donor programs involved removal of the Harpoon & CIWS weapons platforms from retired Gearing class DDG's & retrofitting them to the Type-21 FFG's.

The MPA suite on the PN F-27 is nowhere near as comprehensive as that on the current P-3C's or even the Atlantics. Any MPA capability will be a relatively limited by comparison. The need for a multifunctional troop/cargo aircraft is what the current stated requirement is. SSGN role has seen increased impetus in the last decade or so & fortunately PN has had the foresight to factor this in when looking at acquisition of aviation assets. Of course helping shift large loads in particular during national emergencies is vital.

As with all things, funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole and not just PN. F-27 are getting long in the tooth & it's only a matter of time before the 7 serving examples are retired & need replacing. By going for an air frame in use by the national airline may have been a coincidence, but will nonetheless by a welcome relief for PN as the sole example ATR aircraft will likely be maintained or at least leverage the experience of PIA. This was much the same when PN & MSA initially inducted F-27's & sent their aircraft to PIA for service/maintainer until they built their own organic infrastructure.

at least 2-4 ATR-72's are planned for induction to replace the F-27's.

also welcome to the forum. hope your stay is fruitful.

 

[muse]

All these threads end "funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole " ---

 

[Jango]

Where is the first ATR? No pics, no news or anything.

It had reportedly departed the canary Islands last month and its last stop on it's route was supposed to be Jeddah...so b y now it should have been in Pak territory.
@fatman17, any news?

BTW, a tender for a third ATR also combi version has been released by PN.

 

[Mani2020]

All these threads end "funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole " ---

sshh dnt hit on the nerves of braggers !!

 

[Argus Panoptes]

All these threads end "funds are the main source of issue for Pakistan as a whole " ---

Money can still be obtained, but it is the access to technology that would be denied due to potential sanctions that we must avoid.

 

[Mani2020]

Money can still be obtained, but it is the access to technology that would be denied due to potential sanctions that we must avoid.

can you kindly elaborate this part, the question that clicks is how!!! in past we have obtained funds from saudi's in return of some services but we have wasted them one way or the other. No country is going to baby sit you time n time again if you dont want to learn from the retrospect and stand on your own feet... You are becoming a liability for many

 

[Argus Panoptes]

can you kindly elaborate this part, the question that clicks is how!!! in past we have obtained funds from saudi's in return of some services but we have wasted them one way or the other. No country is going to baby sit you time n time again if you dont want to learn from the retrospect and stand on your own feet... You are becoming a liability for many

For military purchases like the ATR-72 for the Navy, money is the easiest to arrange, it is the willingness of the seller that is the real issue for most purchases. For example, our economy may be have a down period, but it is relatively easy to set aside a few billion within a year or two by taking proper management steps if we really put our minds to it. But look at Iran. Even with oil money nobody will set it anything really useful. That was my point.

 

[Mani2020]

For military purchases like the ATR-72 for the Navy, money is the easiest to arrange, it is the willingness of the seller that is the real issue for most purchases. For example, our economy may be have a down period, but it is relatively easy to set aside a few billion within a year or two by taking proper management steps if we really put our minds to it. But look at Iran. Even with oil money nobody will set it anything really useful. That was my point.

Navy needs some major modernization , for that setting couple of billions aside will not make much of a difference ...for small acquisitions like couple of refurbished atr-72 it might will providing that the seller is willing to sell them on credit....but for other things like modern frigates, submarines and related gadgets they will not make much of a difference . the last resort is china who is the only one country providing you with soft loans for purchases but for european tech you need hard cash ...remember the u boat deal is dead coz of the same reasons .....US will never let you get your hands on their latest gadgets so the only option will be china but the big question ; is the chinese equipment on par with western counterparts . F-22P is one of the examples where for me PN went for it coz of two reasons urgent need for replacement and beef up secondly it was relatively cheaper but when you compare it with the modern frigates it certainly lags behind


btw out of meager 6.5 billion budget with one of the largest military by size that needs heavy modernization wat kind of funds management you are talking about is above my head !!!!!!!!

 

[muse]

Money can still be obtained, but it is the access to technology that would be denied due to potential sanctions that we must avoid.

We are seeking access to technology with invisible funds? That's interesting - you know it seems to me that if funds can be available so can anything else. We need to be honest with ourselves, our malady is not that funds are unavailable, but rather we that we refuse to acknowledge how we can create funding.

 

[fatman17]

For military purchases like the ATR-72 for the Navy, money is the easiest to arrange, it is the willingness of the seller that is the real issue for most purchases. For example, our economy may be have a down period, but it is relatively easy to set aside a few billion within a year or two by taking proper management steps if we really put our minds to it. But look at Iran. Even with oil money nobody will set it anything really useful. That was my point.

thats not a good example. iran is under UN mandated sanctions. PK comes under US country-to-country sanctions. for other countries esp. west we need to have better relations with them.

and yes money does talk.....

Where is the first ATR? No pics, no news or anything.

It had reportedly departed the canary Islands last month and its last stop on it's route was supposed to be Jeddah...so b y now it should have been in Pak territory.
@fatman17, any news?

BTW, a tender for a third ATR also combi version has been released by PN.

pics were posted.
what about the 2nd first.