As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro

[Josef K]

Still you. Are talking about britain not Christian

Christian = who walk in the path of jesus
A) not britis or Europeans are the real christian

I told you about South Indian communities and you are calling them Europeans. You have a comprehension problem.

If you dont know about inequalities in kerala lower cast hindus are prohibited to cover their breasts so the changed to Christians because they can wear dress lots of examples like that

Oh....You mean the Ezhavas. So, you fail in Kerala history too? Ezhavas did not convert to Christianity. The Ezhava community in Kerala started following Narayana Guru, who was very much a Hindu. Ezhavas, to this day are proud Hindus and they follow their spiritual leader Narayana Guru's teachings. In Kerala, the majority Christians are from one of the many Syrian churches or from the upper castes.

Do you have anthig after post world or modern era

Lord's Resistance Army. Google it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Ok. So you are a class apart altogether. I don't wish to generalize, but the time for you Hindu hating lot is running out. Fast.

 

[Josef K]

Lord vishnu in the shape of vamanan who is brahmin send mahabali to pathal (do you know what pathal mean in hinduism )because the devas(who are white) said so
Mahabali was so good to people but he was back stabbed why

The story of Mahabali is one that illustrates the beauty of Hinduism. Mahabali, despite being an Asura, was a good person. He did not worship Vishnu but he was virtuous and kind. Now, in Christianity, God tells you that no matter how kind or virtuous a person is, unless he worships YHWH, he goes to hell. But in Hinduism, despite being an enemy of God, Mahabali goes to heaven after Vishnu conquers him. And it is the Hindus who venerate Mahabali - not some sects. Hence the story. To tell you, you don't need piety but only virtue to be salvaged.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

In kerala many chuches has stone lamps which look like hindu temple

Blasphemy no?

Teach them a lesson or two. They even look like Hindus. Conversion has not made their appearance any whiter.

And then you have the audacity to dictate Hindus on having or not having beef.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Still you. Are talking about britain not Christian
Christian = who walk in the path of jesus
A) not britis or Europeans are the real christian

LOL..... back to the "No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" theory

They are not "true" christians .......... just like the taliban and terrorists are not "true" muslims ...... what utter Nonsense.

If you dont know about inequalities in kerala lower cast hindus are prohibited to cover their breasts so the changed to Christians because they can wear dress lots of examples like that
And the lower cast churches you talked is because of hindu culture khali temples from lower cast and vishnu temple for upper cast

In kerala covering the upper body was a sign of disrespect and this has been discussed to death earlier. You cannot measure older cultural values based on modern values. Back then nudism was perfectly natural.

"Khali" temple indeed

At least they are not eating human

Shame on you for such Racist comment. Typical christian bigot.

Here is Christians eating Humans 'Cannibal' trial: German policeman in court over killing - BBC News

Do you have anthig after post world or modern era

Like burning people for intercast marriages and beating people who leagly transporting cows like terrorist

EVERY act of violence in the US or Europe is christian killing christians you fool.

When you come to the middle eat, you see christians killing Muslim.

When you go to North East India, you see Christian killing Hindus.

Only you will now turn around and say, they are not "true" christians

Here is the true face of Christianity. Spare us your "propaganda central against Hinduism".

10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men | Alternet

Why did God allow incest in the Bible?

 

[HariPrasad]

Christian = who walk in the path of jesus
A) not britis or Europeans are the real christian




LOL..... back to the "No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" theory

They are not "true" christians .......... just like the taliban and terrorists are not "true" muslims ...... what utter Nonsense.

In kerala covering the upper body was a sign of disrespect and this has been discussed to death earlier. You cannot measure older cultural values based on modern values. Back then nudism was perfectly natural.

"Khali" temple indeed



Shame on you for such Racist comment. Typical christian bigot.

Here is Christians eating Humans 'Cannibal' trial: German policeman in court over killing - BBC News



EVERY act of violence in the US or Europe is christian killing christians you fool.

When you come to the middle eat, you see christians killing Muslim.

When you go to North East India, you see Christian killing Hindus.

Only you will now turn around and say, they are not "true" christians

Here is the true face of Christianity. Spare us your "propaganda central against Hinduism".

10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men | Alternet

Why did God allow incest in the Bible?

Well Said. Pop Supported Mussolini and Hitler in Second WW. Every body know that. Now he will say that pop is not true christian.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

The story of Mahabali is one that illustrates the beauty of Hinduism. Mahabali, despite being an Asura, was a good person. He did not worship Vishnu but he was virtuous and kind. Now, in Christianity, God tells you that no matter how kind or virtuous a person is, unless he worships YHWH, he goes to hell. But in Hinduism, despite being an enemy of God, Mahabali goes to heaven after Vishnu conquers him. And it is the Hindus who venerate Mahabali - not some sects. Hence the story. To tell you, you don't need piety but only virtue to be salvaged.

Mahabali did worship Vishnu, which is why he offered his head to vishun after realizing the truth. He had to be stopped because he was misled and was spreading adharma as an Asura. Not because he was a bad person.

He as a good person doing a bad thing in his ignorance.

Oh....You mean the Ezhavas. So, you fail in Kerala history too? Ezhavas did not convert to Christianity. The Ezhava community in Kerala started following Narayana Guru, who was very much a Hindu. Ezhavas, to this day are proud Hindus and they follow their spiritual leader Narayana Guru's teachings. In Kerala, the majority Christians are from one of the many Syrian churches or from the upper castes.

Almost no christian community in kerala is from the upper caste. In kerala you will find a lot of muslims from the upper caste. In that particular matter, kerala is quite unlike the rest of India, where the reverse is true.

 

[mooppan]

Ezhavas did not convert to Christianity. The Ezhava community in Kerala started following Narayana Guru, who was very much a Hindu. Ezhavas, to this day are proud Hindus and they follow their spiritual leader Narayana Guru's teachings. In Kerala, the majority Christians are from one of the many Syrian churches or from the upper castes

They did...Yes,About 60-65% of Kerala Christians are from upper
caste Syrian community,but there are many other sects like
Latin Christians-converts during colonial periods largely from fishermen group like araiya,then Eezhavas etc..
Nadar Christians,Cheramar pulaya Christians,Tribal Christians etc...

Almost no christian community in kerala is from the upper caste. In kerala you will find a lot of muslims from the upper caste. In that particular matter, kerala is quite unlike the rest of India, where the reverse is true.

haha..Syrian Christians are considered as forward community as per KERALA government(may be not in your sanghi papers) and may be the top most in terms of education,power,money among all other Malayali communities..

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

They did...Yes,About 60-65% of Kerala Christians are from upper
caste Syrian community,but there are many other sects like
Latin Christians-converts during colonial periods largely from fishermen group like araiya,then Eezhavas etc..
Nadar Christians,Cheramar pulaya Christians,Tribal Christians etc...

Rubbish.

Syrian christian were considered upper caste because they practised untouchability and avoidance of "pollution" by other christians. But this was primarily due to them learning kalari and getting the title of Pillai.


Here is a quote by a christian missionary in 1860 about the caste system he encountered in kerala,

...... a Nair can approach but not touch a Namboodiri Brahmin: a Chovan [Ezhava] must remain thirty-six paces off, and a Pulayan slave ninety-six steps distant. A Chovan must remain twelve steps away from a Nair, and a Pulayan sixty-six steps off, and a Parayan some distance farther still. A Syrian Christian may touch a Nair (though this is not allowed in some parts of the country) but the latter may not eat with each other. Pulayans and Parayars, who are the lowest of all, can approach but not touch, much less may they eat with each other.

haha..Syrian Christians are considered as forward community as per KERALA government(may be not in your sanghi papers) and may be the top most in terms of education,power,money among all other Malayali communities..

LOL. So what ?

How does that change the reality that they were converts from lower castes ?

 

[Josef K]

Mahabali did worship Vishnu, which is why he offered his head to vishun after realizing the truth. He had to be stopped because he was misled and was spreading adharma as an Asura. Not because he was a bad person.

He as a good person doing a bad thing in his ignorance.

The story of Mahabali, as I have heard it only mentions his rule being benevolent. But however he wanted to challenge the authority of the gods and wanted to conquer all worlds. Hence he had to be stopped. Also, he did not offer his head to Vishnu out of devotion but because of his dharma - that he must keep his promise, even though he found out he has been deceived (else, why did Vishnu have to come disguised as Vamana?). Then again, myths have different versions and different interpretations.

Almost no christian community in kerala is from the upper caste. In kerala you will find a lot of muslims from the upper caste. In that particular matter, kerala is quite unlike the rest of India, where the reverse is true.

They did...Yes,About 60-65% of Kerala Christians are from upper
caste Syrian community,

@MokshaVimukthi and @mooppan You guys are contradicting each other here. However, just as mooppan says here, I believe 60-65% of Keralite Xians belong to the Syrian denominations.

but there are many other sects like
Latin Christians-converts during colonial periods largely from fishermen group like araiya,then Eezhavas etc..
Nadar Christians,Cheramar pulaya Christians,Tribal Christians etc...

I don't disagree. I was only explaining to Sherin that Ezhavas or Nadars did not convert in bulk and in fact most of them remained Hindus. In an earlier comment too, I had outlined the reason for the conversion of Nadars in Tamil Nadu.

Syrian christian were considered upper caste because they practised untouchability and avoidance of "pollution" by other christians. But this was primarily due to them learning kalari and getting the title of Pillai.

So, they were upper castes. May be not in the traditional sense. But however they were in fact treated with respect and were not oppressed, contrary to Sherin's theory that they were all converted only later because of caste oppression. I know a few Nasranis and some of them say that they were Namboodiris before.

 

[mooppan]

Rubbish.

Syrian christian were considered upper caste because they practised untouchability and avoidance of "pollution" by other christians. But this was primarily due to them learning kalari and getting the title of Pillai.


Here is a quote by a christian missionary in 1860 about the caste system he encountered in kerala,

...... a Nair can approach but not touch a Namboodiri Brahmin: a Chovan [Ezhava] must remain thirty-six paces off, and a Pulayan slave ninety-six steps distant. A Chovan must remain twelve steps away from a Nair, and a Pulayan sixty-six steps off, and a Parayan some distance farther still. A Syrian Christian may touch a Nair (though this is not allowed in some parts of the country) but the latter may not eat with each other. Pulayans and Parayars, who are the lowest of all, can approach but not touch, much less may they eat with each other.



LOL. So what ?

How does that change the reality that they were converts from lower castes ?

first of all ,Ancestors of todays Syrian Christians are not homogeneous...They were converts from then immigrant Jewish communities,Upper/lower caste Hindus and even Buddhist groups...At present they are the top most progressive and effluent groups in Kerala,even in India.
A sanghi like you can't ACCEPT these realities and facts..

 

[Josef K]

effluent

affluent. You really are a pucca Keralite.

 

[mooppan]

I don't disagree. I was only explaining to Sherin that Ezhavas or Nadars did not convert in bulk and in fact most of them remained Hindus. In an earlier comment too, I had outlined the reason for the conversion of Nadars in Tamil Nadu.

Nadar samuthayath la vandhu neraiya Christians irukaangappa..Kumari mavattathu la vandhu kittethitte 50-60% nadar makkalum Christians dhaan..Inge Trivandrum maavattula kooda ottu motha Christiansum nadar koottathu la sernthavar dhan..

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

The story of Mahabali, as I have heard it only mentions his rule being benevolent. But however he wanted to challenge the authority of the gods and wanted to conquer all worlds. Hence he had to be stopped. Also, he did not offer his head to Vishnu out of devotion but because of his dharma - that he must keep his promise, even though he found out he has been deceived (else, why did Vishnu have to come disguised as Vamana?). Then again, myths have different versions and different interpretations.

The story means he wanted to bring his version of law and order i.e. adharma to the land ruled by "dharma" as defined in Hinduism. That is why he held the yagna and that is why Vishnu had to intervene to put an end to the spread of Adharma as he has done many other times.

Mahabali did not have to offer his head, he had already given all he could have. He had kept his promise to the best of his ability. He chose to offer his head in a mark of respect and devotion. Which is why the lord recognized this supreme effort and granted him moksha. Keeping a mere promise did not deserve this reward. Vishnu came as a Vamana because he wanted to avoid bloodshed and the death of a good king who was misguided by his guru Shukracharya. (who lost an eye in the contest)

@MokshaVimukthi and @mooppan You guys are contradicting each other here. However, just as mooppan says here, I believe 60-65% of Keralite Xians belong to the Syrian denominations.

So, they were upper castes. May be not in the traditional sense. But however they were in fact treated with respect and were not oppressed, contrary to Sherin's theory that they were all converted only later because of caste oppression. I know a few Nasranis and some of them say that they were Namboodiris before.

They had upper caste status in some part of kerala, but that was due to their actions and worth and not due to their birth.

The earliest record of Syrian christians is by Tipu Sultan's son Gholam Mohammed in 1766. He records them as syrian christian deputies who came to Coimbatore were stout men, with a ferocious air and manners. They had the figure of a small cross above their nose punctured in the skin, and a large scar on the right cheek, caused by a recoil of their muskets. Now this kind of body mutilation is not done by any upper caste in kerala.

But yes, the conversion due to caste oppression story is pure hogwash and christian propaganda.

Finally there is no record of any Namboodiris turning Syrian christian.

 

[mooppan]

affluent. You really are a pucca Keralite.

My English is far below,just like Vijay in acting..