Army wants to become part of CPEC administration

[VCheng]

It is simply inconceviable that the Pakistan Army will outperform civlian elected governements in the long run- they just need to be given the chance.

If your premise as stated is true, then it follows that it is in the interests of the Army never to let such a chance materialize.

 

[salarsikander]

I don't see why you need to have visited Pakistan to be able to offer (possible) prescriptions. There is nothing unique about Pakistan or its people, they have the same basic desires, functions and cognitive abilities as any other member of the human race. What is unique to Pakistan is its history and specific model of governance over the past 70 years.

I am still failing to understand why in a nation of 200 million people just 100 or so (the very top brass of the PA) at any one time can be considered qualified to run the country. What is it in the Pak Mil training that makes these men so special? Nothing other than they are the ones with the guns (which they have used to cease all the power/resources). Democracy is not an instant product, it needs to be treated like a fragile flower intially, constantly watered and taken care of so that its roots can grow deeper and deeper and then eventually it can be fully self sufficent and strong in its own right. What the PA are constantly doing is killing it off whilst it is still in its gestation stage. It is simply inconceviable that the Pakistan Army will outperform civlian elected governements in the long run- they just need to be given the chance.

Right now the system as it is will attract the corrupt and those out to loot whilst the sun is shining because the shadow of the PA is looming and thus the incentive is to take take take whilst you can and perhaps know that the PA is always there to pick up the slack. But if you establish a real democracy where the military works for the civlians then the entire dynamic will change, the civlians should be put in a postion to sink or swim on their own, as it stands dual power centres are tripping over themselves and making a mess of the entire show.

Hi,

In order to understand the dynamics it is better to see at hand what is happening, merely forming an opnion based on news that you receive is not good enough !

Secondly the dynamics that we share, unless and until literacy improves and we have qualified politicians
(not some those who have fake degrees) we will not be able to reap the benefits offered by Democracy. Right now the current ruling party has sugar mills, steel mills, theuir entire family in politics. I am not sure where in democracy that happens. If we do not have a above of the mentioned point, we will just become another vassal state like Bangladesh( no offence to Bengali memebers)

And we have already seen the love story of Nawaz with his Indian counterpart, the gusy is willing to put national security at stake. As I said, democracy will only work when we have qualified and selfless people, not some politician who will use everything is his power to increase his influence and wealth

I will say this again that armed forces are trained to fight and not to rule and think as well as their civilian equivalents.

Hi,
If you bother to read my first post on this topic, you will know what i endorsed.

The system will only work when you dont have chaudary and wadres as your leaders !

 

[SBD-3]

Give us a pie or our puppets are back!

 

[Shah01]

Secondly the dynamics that we share, unless and until literacy improves and we have qualified politicians
(not some those who have fake degrees) we will not be able to reap the benefits offered by Democracy. Right now the current ruling party has sugar mills, steel mills, theuir entire family in politics. I am not sure where in democracy that happens.

As I mentioned in my earlier post education is the key (hence I compared the budget of armed forces and education, for example here in UK almost £90 billion is spent on education to cater for almost 10-11 million students and half that £45 billion on armed forces). As long as we do not support education sector seriously we will still be discussing the same issues 50 years in future.
In UK almost all the MPs will be from very well off families (educated in private schools and from oxbridge mainly) with businesses etc. So it happens even in developed countries with the exception of the last point (entire family in politics).

Hi,
If you bother to read my first post on this topic, you will know what i endorsed.

The system will only work when you dont have chaudary and wadres as your leaders !

Yes did read your first post. And we are alluding to the same thing.... my argument is what concrete reforms the army has done while in power which has benefited the vast majority?
They could've reformed the land ownership laws almost 60 years ago but they didn't. This would've replaced the chaudary and waderas once and for all. These feudals are the worst thing happened to Pakistan and partly the Army is to blame.
The successive governments failed to reform laws, which on the other hand India did as soon as they got independence.

 

[salarsikander]

Yes did read your first post. And we are alluding to the same thing.... my argument is what concrete reforms the army has done while in power which has benefited the vast majority?
They could've reformed the land ownership laws almost 60 years ago but they didn't. This would've replaced the chaudary and waderas once and for all. These feudals are the worst thing happened to Pakistan and partly the Army is to blame.
The successive governments failed to reform laws, which on the other hand India did as soon as they got independence.

The army was on;y called when the losers couldn't govern the country. I for one believe we shouldnt be ha;f and half, if its democracy then let it be (principally) if its not then hand it over to generals . simple. write or wrong that is entirely different matter.

We have already seen how the last 5 years under the family politics of Bhutto zinda has done to country

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

CPEC & GAWADAR Port city should be under Pak Army control untill it become fully developed & functional economic hub for south Asia.

 

[egodoc222]

Excellent news!!
Pakistan army is ideal candidate with enough knowledge of economics and administration...

 

[Abingdonboy]

If your premise as stated is true, then it follows that it is in the interests of the Army never to let such a chance materialize.

Exactly right and is this not what we have seen throughout Pakistan's history? Civlain leaders/governments "cut down to size" when the PA felt their stranglehold being challenged. The most recent example is perhaps the drama with Imran Khan as the Mushy treason trail was going on, Nawaz Sharif has been "cut to size" hasn't he? And where is the former Pak COAS? Is he behind bars?

 

[Rank]

As if Army doesn't live in Islamabad ? As if its not corrupt ?

Someone please explain why there is no accountability of Army ? Why NAB is not allowed to probe scams in
DHA, Askri, Fauji Foundation, Royal Palm, New Islamabad Airport, NLC, dealings with Malik Riaz, Bol Network etc ?

tell your PM... What is the purpose of Govt.. if they are not capable to accountable anyone thn go home simple rather providing justifications and just put allegations and blame on others because in real Govt is Incompetent and core to corrupt...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Secondly the dynamics that we share, unless and until literacy improves and we have qualified politicians
(not some those who have fake degrees) we will not be able to reap the benefits offered by Democracy. Right now the current ruling party has sugar mills, steel mills, theuir entire family in politics. I am not sure where in democracy that happens. If we do not have a above of the mentioned point, we will just become another vassal state like Bangladesh( no offence to Bengali memebers)

And we have already seen the love story of Nawaz with his Indian counterpart, the gusy is willing to put national security at stake. As I said, democracy will only work when we have qualified and selfless people, not some politician who will use everything is his power to increase his influence and wealth

See, this is not a chicken and egg situation, as I have said leave your personal feelings for the current of crop of politcans to one side. Your complaint that there are no properly qualified civlian leaders is rather moot as how do you expect to get such qualified people into politics with the current situation? The present day system is not designed as a mertiocracy, the best are not rising to the top as the ebst likely never saw politcs as a viable option for them and if I'm being cynical I would say the Pak Army has designed the system in such a way.

No leaders are magically going to descend from the skies and be incorruptible or different overnight, there is a saying that one gets the leaders/government that one deserves. But this is not a call to give up on the entire process but to demand better. Calling in the army or relying on them to somehow correct the course of the nation is not going to fix anything, it may put a bandaid on the problems but will never address them. The system needs to evolve organically, there is no magical bullet and as bad as the leaders you may have may be they are what you have and you need to make it work, washing your hands of them and providing legitimacy to a coup is replacing one set of seld serving induviduals with another except this time they have a stronger PR strategy and are better at hiding their negatives and demand no accountability.

 

[Spring Onion]

A Project by Army administered by Army so whats the problem?

 

[salarsikander]

See, this is not a chicken and egg situation, as I have said leave your personal feelings for the current of crop of politcans to one side. Your complaint that there are no properly qualified civlian leaders is rather moot as how do you expect to get such qualified people into politics with the current situation? The present day system is not designed as a mertiocracy, the best are not rising to the top as the ebst likely never saw politcs as a viable option for them and if I'm being cynical I would say the Pak Army has designed the system in such a way.

No leaders are magically going to descend from the skies and be incorruptible or different overnight, there is a saying that one gets the leaders/government that one deserves. But this is not a call to give up on the entire process but to demand better. Calling in the army or relying on them to somehow correct the course of the nation is not going to fix anything, it may put a bandaid on the problems but will never address them. The system needs to evolve organically, there is no magical bullet and as bad as the leaders you may have may be they are what you have and you need to make it work, washing your hands of them and providing legitimacy to a coup is replacing one set of seld serving induviduals with another except this time they have a stronger PR strategy and are better at hiding their negatives and demand no accountability.

Again the situation doesn't allow us to. Last time a sucker politician was there, after killing his opponents he handed entire country to army when he couldnt handle east Pakistan and we had the result. The sucker wasnt ready to acknowledge the results and then these lot put entire blame on army !c

 

[Shah01]

We have already seen how the last 5 years under the family politics of Bhutto zinda has done to country

Answered below. The stress here is to let the system evolve organically.

The system needs to evolve organically, there is no magical bullet and as bad as the leaders you may have may be they are what you have and you need to make it work, washing your hands of them and providing legitimacy to a coup is replacing one set of seld serving induviduals with another except this time they have a stronger PR strategy and are better at hiding their negatives and demand no accountability.

Again the situation doesn't allow us to. Last time a sucker politician was there, after killing his opponents he handed entire country to army when he could handle east Pakistan and we had the result. The sucker wasnt ready to acknowledge the results and then these lot put entire blame on army !c

This will be covered in the upcoming note by @WAJsal on history of Pakistan. My opinion is that army tried to find a military solution to a political problem (Gen Yahya made the right system for the elections but his call for military action was uncalled for).

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Exactly right and is this not what we have seen throughout Pakistan's history? Civlain leaders/governments "cut down to size" when the PA felt their stranglehold being challenged. The most recent example is perhaps the drama with Imran Khan as the Mushy treason trail was going on, Nawaz Sharif has been "cut to size" hasn't he? And where is the former Pak COAS? Is he behind bars?

And what happened during the "drama" with Imran Khan (the head of second largest political party in Pakistan)? Please tell us who called on the army chief to negotiate with the protesters? And then lied in the parliament and got owned?

Seems Indians know more about our domestic politics than us? Or maybe your blind hatred towards our state and our armed forces ... forces you to take cheap shots in matters that don't concern you? That's one helluve OCD you folks suffer from.

 

[salarsikander]

Answered below. The stress here is to let the system evolve organically.

And let the country fuk itself from the inside with a neighbor six times your size who hasnt digested your existence waiting for opportune moment to.....

And where is the former Pak COAS? Is he behind bars?

And in your esteemed why should he be behind
bars ?