What is the purpose of having democracy and governments if Army is not going to let it run and improve over time ?
Do we not have democracy in action? what are you on about? it's the duty of civilian government to strengthen democracy, don't take dictations. Look to evolve, you have the majorities support. But the fact remains civilian governments do not care much about democracy, just like they don't give a shit about democracy in their parties...They look to finish their tenures.
How about acknowledging CPEC is a government project conceived by Nawaz ? How about proving corruption in these projects rather than making ridiculous sweeping statements ? If there is, does that allow the Army under constitution to take over ? Is it really their job ? Is there no corruption in Army ?
Army was made a stake-holder by NS himself. If Army was asked to supervise this project and provide security for it, this was bound to happen. And NS being scared of saying 'no' will obviously agree to the suggestions made by the army.
Weak government results in stronger Establishment.
'Your government' ? Isn't this tera, mera exactly the thing haunting Pakistan since independence ? How about seriously dividing Pakistan ? Everyone would just be happy not hearing tanay of Punjabi rule.
Your was meant to point at NS. Any sane government would never let itself be dictated. And please do not take cheap shots, it is our government. With all it's incompetence and stupidity it is still our government. Please don't take cheap shots.
What
@WAJsal is true. A weak government generally leaders to a stronger military influence, but even with a strong government, it is difficult to actually put forth accountability towards the army.
Exactly my point. But he seems not to accept the incompetence of civilian government in this regard. One can't blame the army for anything(it's basically a culture here). What exactly has civilian government done to strengthen democracy or the say the system? I would blame the civilian government more here.
Sir, Pakistan is a show run by the Army, and for the Army, the present thread topic included. What is incorrect or insulting in saying that? Do you think that acting illegally and usurping power honors the memory of the founding fathers any better?
I found your definition of Pakistan very insulting.
Quoted Post:
"A Project by Army administered by Army so whats the problem?"
reply:
"The very definition of Pakistan."
So Pakistan was a project of the Army, or such forces? Our founding Fathers gave a lot of sacrifices for it, it was no project. Pakistan is being run by an incompetent civilian government, not the Army. Army will look to keep it self strong. That is for the civilian government to minimize its role.
It certainly doesn't help that the average Pakistani citizen would cheer on the army if it decided to punish and dismantle the government for 'unnecessary' involvement in army affairs.
Army falls under the government. I say move to army the day we clean our political system, everything in the army should be audited. Everyone should be audited and it should all be done under the civilian government. Ideally speaking.
Its funny but in such scenario his GB will go straight to China and he will enjoy the life Xinjiang style
Cheap shots will only result in disappointment. Since you never cared to read my post, or maybe you had a tough time understanding it. I have agreed with points made by
@cb4 , i am the biggest supporter of CPEC. I have always been. Please do not get confused here.
One should accept that stronger Establishment only means that the civilian government is weak and incompetent. Maybe the truth is too hard to swallow. Ideally the army should never talk about administration in any project, maybe they realise the incompetence of the federal government and wish to stomp their authority.
PS: Our PM will accept to this demand without much thinking.
It's the mismatch in intellect. While the Army is a professional institution which promotes talent within, Pakistan's Political Parties are not institutions but family built mafias which rely on nepotism, patronage and corruption to cement its rank. Nawaz Sharif and Zardari run their parties like King's and are deeply involved in looting the meagre resources of the country. Nawaz Sharif first became PM in 1990 when Raheel Sharif was probably a Major in the Army, its 2016 now and Nawaz Sharif is again the PM but it appears he hasn't learned squat. He is still the same corrupt filthy swine that he was in 1990. Compare his intellect with Raheel Sharif who has always been an overachiever, you will see the difference between the Army and our Political Institutions. It's not the guns, but deliverance that has allowed PA to remain the most popular institution in Pakistan
A better term to describe these political mafias in power would be: civilian dictators. As long as we have these mafias around don't expect the system to get any better. In fact they are a threat to the system.
@Abingdonboy , to get the system right over time you need to have right people in the right place. That is what is lacking. In some cases you don't require time to for the system to evolve you have the right people who correct the system and overcome the flaws. Army lobby being stronger only means that the civilian government doesn't wish to bring the army under the civilian government. We literally have two governments running Pakistan most of the time. We have got the Americans negotiating with the Army rather than talking to the civilian government. All in all one would blame the incompetence of civilian government here, they have the majority behind them. Our political system is too incompetent to curb out this culture from the Army. All in all no one is any better.