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Army swoops on ‘CIA agents’

Yes the leadership at the top of the ISI is undemocratic, unfaithful to duty to NATO alliance in War on Terrorism, and more concerned with financing, equipping and supporting terrorist militar for the fantum war with India that is never to be as India is not the natural enemy of Pakistan. Pakistan's biggest enemies are within, the pro-Wahabbist, robber barons who use religion rather than understand, believe and practive peaceful Islam as their individual faith system of person choice.

Use ur common sense if ISI had supported Taliban NATO would have been in deep shyt and we wouldnt be facing terrorist attacks!

Its ur arrogance and stupidity if u think Pakistan supports taliban and considers them an asset againt india!

If we had did we would have used them against india in Kashmir and kargil ............ Unlike india and ur puppet regime in kabul tht is supporting terrorists inside Pakistan... I.e= BLA and its leadership.

Its ur army officers who have issued some f..ed up maps of Pakistan showing it divided into pieces...Its USA tht discriminated Pakistan in the nuclear deal! Its USA tht has been sending a..holes (CIA operatives) who have violated our laws multiple times....... By pointing weapons at some poor traffic wardon,photo graphing sensitive installations and killing men in day light in places where they wernt even allowed to go...... Ur Govt not cooperating with Pakistan by giving police the guy who crushed a innocent when he was went on rampage!

Its ur country tht doesnt give us the capabilities to strike Taliban.
Its USA tht leaves it posts on the afghan side whenever we conduct a full scale OPS!

Its ur country tht has supported every dictator in Pakistan aswell as all muslim countries!

Its USA tht has sanctioned us a billion times and left us in cold.

Its USA tht funded armed and created the taliban and left us to deal with them after the fall of USSR..

U are pathetic........
 
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how many ''mistakes'' (or myths) have actually ended up leading countries to wage war on other sovereign ones?
Isn't that an argument for allowing an ally's intelligence operations to continue undisturbed, rather than disrupting them?

i once posed this question (in different words) for Mr. Solomon here, though, alas, I never did get an answer
How many is up?
Just another attempt at distraction.
 
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Use ur common sense if ISI had supported Taliban NATO would have been in deep shyt and we wouldnt be facing terrorist attacks!
That's not how it works. When a state employs an irregular force that by design is beyond the reach of the law citizens quickly learn that state institutions can't help them when this force commits crimes or violates their rights. Then if another outfit comes along citizens can't be certain if it is allied or part of the "approved" one or not. Law and order quickly decays.

Pakistan is no exception to this. Another example is Gaza under the 1947-67 Egyptian occupation. The Egyptians began training fedayeen there, whether or not the populace wanted it. That provided a screen for other terror groups to begin operations.

Its ur country tht doesnt give us...Its USA tht leaves it posts...
Pakistan confessed in October 2009 to diverting U.S. aid to forces facing India and to supporting the Taliban. Nothing stops the U.S. and Pakistan from coordinating ops if Pakistan so desired.

Its ur country tht has supported every dictator in Pakistan as well as all muslim countries!
Not every dictator but all too often, yes. I'm not one of these - I supported revolution in Egypt four years ago, when the Arab Spring was merely seeds in frozen ground - but I hope that misguided policy is changing now.

Its USA tht has sanctioned us a billion times and left us in cold.
You never considered that Pakistan was at fault, not the USA?

Its USA tht funded armed and created the taliban and left us to deal with them after the fall of USSR.
U.S. & Saudi funds under Zia's exclusive direction created the mujaheddin. So I'm sure Pakistan was happy to see the U.S. go and leave Pakistan to establish the Taliban in power and thus employ Afghanistan as "strategic depth". (if the Army ever lost Pakistan like it did Bangladesh it could then retreat to Afghanistan and lord over the population there.)

Now, what do these pathetic complaints have to do with the title thread?
 
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Thank you for the education.

de nada

I don't doubt this. If American officials believe that OBL would have been tipped off if they had informed Pakistan, then the ISI must have had a human asset nearby to communicate with OBL in an emergency. (A phone call would have been detected.)

sure, and where is that phone call? I've heard nothing about it. So therefore, what you're saying (like a lot of other things you say) is pure speculation.

Speculation alone can never be mistaken as fact.


I understand that the rest of the world works one way but Pakistan desires America to conform to its desires.

such is not the case, that is your own hunch perhaps.

though when it concerns our internal affairs, you have an obligation to heed to it. For example, Pakistan requested 150 US personnel to pack their bags and scram. And that is what they are doing now.

as you are in our neighbourhood and as your NATO supplies are going through Pakistan on such a large scale, it seems only natural that Pakistani concerns be taken into consideration. However such has not whole-heartedly been the case.

a good example of that is foreign occupational forces tacit approval of terrorists like Bramdagh Bugti having safe-haven in NATO-controlled Afghanistan.


Even Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. tells us not to trust the head of the ISI, something the ISI chief complained about in parliament last month.

oh i'm sorry, i think you meant US ambassador to Pakistan.....the one who himself at one time was an informant for this very same ISI --and was a darling of Nawaz Sharif and his cronies. According to some sources, he even was involved in a conspiracy to assasinate the then Prime Minister B. Bhutto.


a man of many hats! :)


And damaged the Pakistan's reputation with the American gov't, as Pakistan admitted just before Davis was released (ransomed?) that immunity had been applied for him and the MFA had not filed an objection. That means that under international law meant Davis had diplomatic immunity and his arrest by Pakistan was a treaty violation that the GoP concealed for weeks.

he did not have diplomatic immunity as he was not working directly for the US embassy....it has already been established that he was a CIA contractor engaging in espionage. In some countries, this is punishable by death. Surprisingly (lamentably) -- this was not implemented in the RD saga.

as for the ''treaty'' you mention -- i would view it with the same value as the toilet paper I used this morning. I wonder if this treaty makes mention about sending rambo rogues to foreign countries to carry weapons, drive in fake registered cars, carry unlicensed weapons, surveil sensitive locations, shoot people....you know, the whole works. :)

I'm not sure that hasn't already happened.

you're not sure that it hasn't? Meaning you believe that is has. Always the speculator. Do shed some light.

If you want to stop being the ISI's lapdog there is only one way I know of: confess and expose all you know, as openly and publicly as possible.

is that the best you could come up with?

í'm afraid you'll have to try harder than that...get some sunlight, have a cool glass orange juice and then try again.


The result should be the re-establishment of the rule of law. (This was the technique Natan Sharansky employed to damage the KGB informant network while he was a political prisoner in Soviet labor camps.)

a country that invaded a sovereign one based on a pack of lies, a country that sends armed rogues to ''ally'' countries for espionage purposes, a country that is known to have destablized governments overseas --- cannot be the one to talk about the rule of law.


on this current issue -- the informants should be tried in court and if found guilty of espionage -- should face a firing squad.

Nothing personal, Soloman. Pakistanis don't appreciate terrorists or terrorism, but we sure as hell don't appreciate or condone spies or informants in our country who are not acting in PAKISTAN'S interests (in other words -- reporting TO Pakistan)

some western media raise speculation about Pakistanis employeed at strategic plans division of going rogue and nukes ''ending up in the hands of terrorists''

some could alternatively raise speculation about Pakistani fears of non-state individuals being bribed by outside countries to engage in activity that is counter to our interest......but then again, I think that already happens.

(we have state actor zardari, and US ambassador to Pakistan H.E. haqqani to do that for you :D)























































































Asif_Ali_Zardari81536559.jpg
 
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sure, and where is that phone call?
The officer would have knocked on OBL's door, not made a phone call.

he did not have diplomatic immunity as he was not working directly for the US embassy -
That's not how it works. By treaty the sending country notifies the MFA and unless it objects diplomatic immunity is assumed to be granted. The End.

as for the ''treaty'' you mention -- i would view it with the same value as the toilet paper I used this morning -
I'm sure you do. Why not change that?

...I wonder if this treaty makes mention about sending rambo rogues to foreign countries to carry weapons, drive in fake registered cars, carry unlicensed weapons, surveil sensitive locations, shoot people....you know, the whole works.
The 1961 Vienna Convention makes it clear persons with diplomatic immunity fall under the sending nation's jurisdiction, not that of the host. So you can blame the U.S. when a diplomat transgresses, but you can't imprison or detain the diplomat himself.

Pakistanis don't appreciate terrorists or terrorism, but we sure as hell don't appreciate or condone spies or informants in our country who are not acting in PAKISTAN'S interests.
Pakistani citizens may dispute that the ISI's interests are identical to Pakistan's.

you're not sure that it hasn't? Meaning you believe that is has. Always the speculator. Do shed some light.
Mir Amal Kasi.

a country that invaded a sovereign one based on a pack of lies, a country that sends armed rogues to ''ally'' countries for espionage purposes, a country that is known to have destablized governments overseas --- cannot be the one to talk about the rule of law.
When FedEx delivers a package to me, I don't need to know if the delivery person is a saint or not. Evaluate the message, not the messenger.

is that the best you could come up with?
Does your mother like what you do?
 
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The officer would have knocked on OBL's door, not made a phone call.

SPECULATION


That's not how it works. By treaty the sending country notifies the MFA and unless it objects diplomatic immunity is assumed to be granted. The End.

allies dont send armed rambo ''contractors'' to ''friendly'' countries to engage in criminal activity. The end.

you want to go into the legalities? Sure. RD did not have immunity, he was a contractor for the CIA; not a diplomat (as the americans themselves grudgingly accepted)

I'm sure you do. Why not change that?

i dont recycle toilet paper, i flush it down when brown

i would go so far as to say some laws and rules ought to be re-written, but then again i dont need to refer to manuals and dusty books when my conscience alone tells me that I should review relations with ''friends'' who send armed rogues to my country to engage in espionage, murder and chicanery.


The 1961 Vienna Convention makes it clear persons with diplomatic immunity fall under the sending nation's jurisdiction, not that of the host. So you can blame the U.S. when a diplomat transgresses, but you can't imprison or detain the diplomat himself.

RD wasnt a diplomat, so its a non-issue here. This has been discussed already, and you have been contradicted over and over again. So no need to delve into that too much.

Pakistani citizens may dispute that the ISI's interests are identical to Pakistan's.

Pakistanis are free and legally within their right to do so as long as their conduct and behaviour does not endanger Pakistan or its interests at home or overseas.

the ISI is an integral part of Pakistan's security and intelligence apparatus so any smear campaigns and scape-goating against it are not only unfounded, but they will prove to be a miserably failed strategy.


not only did he not work on behalf of the Pakistani state, but most importantly he was arrested in Pakistan by Pakistani authorities and handed over to the Americans. . .

try again...


When FedEx delivers a package to me, I don't need to know if the delivery person is a saint or not. Evaluate the message, not the messenger.

Certainly. Have I not been doing that?

I don't resort to ad-hominem:

Does your mother like what you do?
 
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Americans will believe everything and anything these days. Very easy people to brainwash. I'm glad jihadis arent active in America, or Americans would easily become suicide bombers.

however in both Pakistan and US, majority are normal people. Pakistanis did not care a rat's arse about OBL or the his death which we are being told about that took place on 2nd May 2011.

all this scape-goating and mud-slinging against Pakistan and its Armed Forces is because NATO needs desperately a scape-goat to pin the blame for the failures in Afghanistan

there is little heart to accept another defeat like Vietnam.


Americans should be assured that Pakistanis do not appreciate foreign policy of US....has nothing to do with the people of America at all.
 
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Certainly. Have I not been doing that? I don't resort to ad-hominem:
You do whatever it takes to distract a discussion thread from any topic or line of argument threatening the current Pakistani Establishment. I presume your approach and techniques are a reflection of those employed by the Establishment in Pakistan itself. Rather than delete our posts, I hope the mods will let them stand as an example of the kind of obstacle ordinary Pakistanis must overcome if they are to really establish democratic rule in their country.
 
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One wonders why the ISI should arrest the informants, when it has been said that none knew Osama's whereabouts and all, including the ISI, was searching for him.

Ever heard the term counter intelligence?? It was of prime importance that Pakistan track and apprehend those who provided information to the CIA. Regardless of the fact intelligence was being provided for which operation, its mandatory for every country to track and break spying networks setup by other agencies on their soil. All those found spying for US or any other country should be tried for treason.
 
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Americans will believe everything and anything these days. Very easy people to brainwash. I'm glad jihadis arent active in America, or Americans would easily become suicide bombers.

however in both Pakistan and US, majority are normal people. Pakistanis did not care a rat's arse about OBL or the his death which we are being told about that took place on 2nd May 2011.

all this scape-goating and mud-slinging against Pakistan and its Armed Forces is because NATO needs desperately a scape-goat to pin the blame for the failures in Afghanistan

there is little heart to accept another defeat like Vietnam.


Americans should be assured that Pakistanis do not appreciate foreign policy of US....has nothing to do with the people of America at all.

I thought the Pakistanis are easily brainwashed. Whenever theres a terrorist attack on Pakistani soil its usually the Indians, Israelis or Americans instead of their own Muslim brothers. Event though hard evidence shows that it was Muslims.
 
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You do whatever it takes to distract a discussion thread from any topic or line of argument threatening the current Pakistani Establishment. I presume your approach and techniques are a reflection of those employed by the Establishment in Pakistan itself. Rather than delete our posts, I hope the mods will let them stand as an example of the kind of obstacle ordinary Pakistanis must overcome if they are to really establish democratic rule in their country.

I represent and speak on behalf of many other of my comrades

I am a civilian, i dont wear uniform and am not involved in the affairs of Pakistan.

you not only seem to use ad-hominem tactics but you even go as far as to speak in a condescending tone to Pakistanis; it is in your interests to create divisions in Pakistani society and the institutions (like Armed Forces, intel agencies, etc.)

unfortunately for you, Solomon, i dont think you would have much success here....especially not on this forum.

unfortunately for you, Solomon -- the scape-goat tactics against Pakistan (for self-serving purposes) would also prove to be a failure as well.

unfortunately for you, Solomon, chain-smokers are not in a moral position to tell others not to smoke; as stated above.
 
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I thought the Pakistanis are easily brainwashed. Whenever theres a terrorist attack on Pakistani soil its usually the Indians, Israelis or Americans instead of their own Muslim brothers. Event though hard evidence shows that it was Muslims.

Iraq was responsible for 9/11

Iraq has WMDs

Palestinians (the ones who were kicked out of their homes, their olive trees uprooted) are terrorists

Cuba and China are evil

Obama is a Muslim, therefore he can't be an American citizen
 
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Iraq was responsible for 9/11

Iraq has WMDs

Palestinians (the ones who were kicked out of their homes, their olive trees uprooted) are terrorists

Cuba and China are evil

Obama is a Muslim, therefore he can't be an American citizen

I agree Americans can be easily brainwashed but don't you agree that Pakistanis can also by brainwashed as well. Don't want to be a hypocrite when you talk about Americans only.
 
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some can, yes...in fact some have been

(a bit too many for comfort)

do you think i am denying that a good number of attacks (acts of war) against Pakistan have been carried out by individuals born in Pakistan?
 
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you not only seem to use ad-hominem tactics but you even go as far as to speak in a condescending tone to Pakistanis; it is in your interests to create divisions in Pakistani society and the institutions (like Armed Forces, intel agencies, etc.)
No use pretending that the ISI and people are one, not when Ambassador Haqqani says otherwise.

unfortunately for you, Solomon, i dont think you would have much success here....especially not on this forum. unfortunately for you, Solomon -- the scape-goat tactics against Pakistan (for self-serving purposes) would also prove to be a failure as well. unfortunately for you, Solomon, chain-smokers are not in a moral position to tell others not to smoke; as stated above.
If you think that, why not just use the forum's "ignore" function to blank me out rather than bother to contest what I write?
 
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