Arjun Mk.II Tank Clears All Army Trials, Service Next Year

[kaku1]

There is a difference between 80 tons spread on a wide area and 80 tons spread over a confined area.

The army generals are not civilians like you. Why don;t you send them an email saying they are wrong?

Rofl, you know ground pressure of Arjun?

Confined area, lol,, dont make mockery of yourself.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

42 top tank fleets based on quality and quantity

several inaccuracies reguarding numbers and the upgrades of tanks in service... which i did point out in that thread (which has nothing to do with the topic on hand).

 

[kaku1]

The army generals are not civilians like you. Why don;t you send them an email saying they are wrong?

Yeah they are not civilian. They born with the army uniform. You are right.

 

[Echo_419]

Many countries are selling T-55 ugrades who look badass and lethal but Radical upgrades...

Ukranian T-55M8A2 Typhoon:

View attachment 190056



Slovenian :


View attachment 190057

T-55M5 (Ob'yekt 155M5) Russia:

View attachment 190059


Zarrar Pakistan:

View attachment 190062 View attachment 190064 View attachment 190063 View attachment 190061 View attachment 190065

The Ukrainian one looks like it was Home made(Literally assembled in a garage or something)
Slovenian one is Kick ***
The Russian one looks like a mini T-90
PK's look medium in Looks but the turret looks great & also is the Turret on your T-55 Indigenous or Foreign

 

[Omega007]

The army doctrine is for the army to decide. The current emphasis is on cold start which means rapid deployment in simple terms. Which further simplified would mean army has to deploy at very short notice. This was learned after Op Parakram in 2001.

For obvious reasons IA cannot store its hardware close to the border. Arty, tanks, APC etc. will have to be mobilised from across the country. So how do you suggest moving in 58 ton tanks over railway tracks and bridges that can handle a maximum of 50 tons? Are you going to re-structure the entire infrastructure of the country for a tank? Where are the lakhs of crores that will be needed?

Broad gauge or not there is a limit to the weight they can stand. Number two railway lines are also laid over bridges, will the bridge be able to handle that much weight? Tanks are compact objects by comparison. A Arjun weighs 58 tons. How much pressure will an Arjun be applying per sq. inch? How many Arjuns can a train carry and how much will that weigh?

Plus the Arjun costs more than the T-90. The T-90 can perform every function the Arjun can. So why Arjun.

I have been explaining the same things over and over again. If you don't like to read what I am saying then feel free to believe in your opinion.

Wow!!My chica knows so much about army depoyment and shit!!Wow chica,I did choose a good suka for me it seems!!Hey chica,can you cook chica??

 

[Indian Patriot]

[


Bullshit. For someone with so little depth of understanding, you certainly have the air of an expert.

Firstly, The entire national road network is being upgraded to 70-T-R class, and I believe the process is almost completed in the western regions. So no, you wont be spending lakhs of crores of your money on upgrading the bridges.

Secondly, The bridges and tracks, infact everything for Trains are designed to carry much more than mere 50 tons or 70 tons. I can pull out official data, if you want me to back it up.

Thirdly, Arjun has less ground pressure than a T-90, despite the difference in size and weight. Which means, the Arjun can go where your dear T-90 can't.

Fourthly, The T-55, up-gunned with a 120 mm cannon can do the work of a T-90, as per your logic. Why go for the T-90 then?

If the army wants to go for the western concept of armored operations, and emphasize crew survival, it has no choice but to go for heavier tanks, or a smaller crew component.

The army which is reluctant to induct the Arjuns must also be wrong according to you.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The Ukrainian one looks like it was Home made(Literally assembled in a garage or something)\

Slovenian one is Kick ***

looks like frankenstein of tanks.

The Russian one looks like a mini T-90

true.

PK's look medium in Looks but the turret looks great & also is the Turret on your T-55 Indigenous or Foreign

Indigenous.. here are its old specs:

 

[Otocal]

several inaccuracies reguarding numbers and the upgrades of tanks in service... which i did point out in that thread (which has nothing to do with the topic on hand).

Well we have retired our T-55 fleet after several upgrades and modifications.

When India retires a weapon system its usually a sign its already way beyond expiry date

 

[13 komaun]

several inaccuracies reguarding numbers and the upgrades of tanks in service... which i did point out in that thread (which has nothing to do with the topic on hand).

Not the numbers but quality besides He is a professional and he answered the queries if you read all his posts

secondly which upgrade are you talking about?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well we have retired our T-55 fleet after several upgrades and modifications.

When India retires a weapon system its usually a sign its already way beyond expiry date

Those upgrades were not as radical as these offered by Ukraine,Russia,Pak (view my post above reguarding the modifications/upgrades),Serbia,China..

As for us .. We are using them (Zarrar variants) as stop gap .. Apart from equipped our paramilitary forces with these.. And have already started phasin out older type 59s.

Not the numbers but quality besides He is a professional and he answered the queries if you read all his posts

secondly which upgrade are you talking about?

He counted both .. and no not really he didnt "answer" my queries... and i did read the entire thread.. as for upgrades... start with AZ... than UDs n IIAPs in our service..

 

[Echo_419]

View attachment 190066







looks like frankenstein of tanks.



true.



Indigenous.. here are its old specs:

View attachment 190067

Like i said assembled in a garage

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Like i said assembled in a garage

looks like they tried to do a bulat on it...

 

[axisofevil]

The Arjun MBT just like the INSAS 5.56 rifle is OBSOLETE and adds no real value to IA.

The problem with DRDO is it takes a lifetime to develop a weapons system and by the time the weapons system is ready for trials a new generation of weapons comes into play.

MBT was ordered in 70s and now in 2015 we are still waiting. LCA was ordered in 80s and we are yet to induct them. INSAS rifle the less said about that copy-paste disaster the better.

IA does not have the budget of USA or major NATO countries. If for the price of one Arjun IA is able to buy two T-90 then IA will naturally go with T-90. The Arjun has the same price range as Leo, Abram and the same weight class but not the same performance. Railway, bridge and other infrastructures cannot move the tanks as rapidly as the T-90s and this will hamper new IA doctrines that call for swift mobility.

India's primary enemy for tank battles is Pakistan which has T-80 as the main MBT. T-80 is superior to T-72 but inferior to the T-90s. What massive advantage does the Arjun have over T-90 that they should sacrifice numbers for the sake of indigenisation? National pride is one thing national security is another.

IA wanted Arjun as the replacement for T-72 and since it took 30 years the army now fields ~ 1500 T-90s and the number is expected to grow to 2,200 by 2020. Where is the scope for Arjun? What is the point in buying Arjun when you already have 2000 tanks capable of taking anything Pakistan throws at you. In simple terms it is waste of resources and depletion of numbers. Instead of buying 600 Arjuns IA can buy a total fleet of 3000, including already deployed ones, by 2020.

DRDO is entirely to blame for this. They think they can waste 30 years over a weapons platform. Countries like south korea, poland etc. are going for super modern tanks while the polish army is testing a stealth light-weight tank. In 10 years T-90 itself will be obsolete and that is why Russia is already working on a new model. For arguent's sake let's agree that T-90 and Arjun are the same. Why induct Arjun now when in ten years army will again have to issue orders for new tanks. ATGM are evolving every year which modern tanks need to counter.

DRDO needs some private corporate style management so that they deliver projects on time. The T-90 is more than adequate to handle any sort of Pakistani MBT. THe DRDO should instead start working on a future-generation of tanks which can adapt to future battlefield scenarios.

A couple of things to add:
DRDO and other institutions have meager budgets compared to their Western counterparts. We expect them to come up with futuristic, next gen weapons for a fraction of the cost.

Our educational system needs a complete overhaul. We need a system that noursihesand developed the minds of all youngsters so that they all become an asset to India. We could even place a program that identifies the truly gifted and select them for personalized higher studies to nuture their capabilities from a young age. Education needs to be transformative. It should include all aspects of life from health, cooking, farming, cutting edge exposure to sciences. This will force the mind to be aware of all changes and adapt them accordingly. The West has begun doing this on a tiny scale after realizing the mistake they were doing for decades.



For me, I think the Indian Army is the least adaptive and lacks a great deal of vision. Instead of pouring countless resources to a freaking tank with results that will make it obselete when compared to what others are working on, we should be more focused on ATGMs and the next gen.


Cyber warfare, India has barely even started anything in this realm. Nothing to boast of at all. Truly sad. Our past leaders had no vision or whoever did had no ability to get the politicans to hear the utter importance it has.

Look at how China has coutered the same problems we have. The difference wherever we see walls or laws, we get afraid to break it. This is a fundamental difference. Indians needs to be taught from a young age, that any barrier to our success has to be destroyed or we need to find a way around it. America does that same. All is fair in love and war. So why aren't we adapting that to our approach?



Some part of the country in India has a vested interest in seeing Congress become an irritant for the BJP. All I want is an united country that will work towards progress. Under, Congres we went nowhere but UP for corruption.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

After being revealed that the T90 had 'relaxed' conditions in the army trials against Arjun, and it still preformed on par or better, I can give some props to the program.

Unfortunately the system/infrastructure in place is to support 1000+++ T90s/72s and the army brass clearly wants it that way, after what was shown.

 

[Indian Patriot]

A couple of things to add:
DRDO and other institutions have meager budgets compared to their Western counterparts. We expect them to come up with futuristic, next gen weapons for a fraction of the cost.

Our educational system needs a complete overhaul. We need a system that noursihesand developed the minds of all youngsters so that they all become an asset to India. We could even place a program that identifies the truly gifted and select them for personalized higher studies to nuture their capabilities from a young age. Education needs to be transformative. It should include all aspects of life from health, cooking, farming, cutting edge exposure to sciences. This will force the mind to be aware of all changes and adapt them accordingly. The West has begun doing this on a tiny scale after realizing the mistake they were doing for decades.



For me, I think the Indian Army is the least adaptive and lacks a great deal of vision. Instead of pouring countless resources to a freaking tank with results that will make it obselete when compared to what others are working on, we should be more focused on ATGMs and the next gen.


Cyber warfare, India has barely even started anything in this realm. Nothing to boast of at all. Truly sad. Our past leaders had no vision or whoever did had no ability to get the politicans to hear the utter importance it has.

Look at how China has coutered the same problems we have. The difference wherever we see walls or laws, we get afraid to break it. This is a fundamental difference. Indians needs to be taught from a young age, that any barrier to our success has to be destroyed or we need to find a way around it. America does that same. All is fair in love and war. So why aren't we adapting that to our approach?



Some part of the country in India has a vested interest in seeing Congress become an irritant for the BJP. All I want is an united country that will work towards progress. Under, Congres we went nowhere but UP for corruption.

That's not the only criticism of DRDO. INSAS was not an original model but a copy of AK-47 and couple other rifles. Still it takes them 20 years to come up with that. Have you seen the finish? It looks like some class 10 dropout assembled it in the garage backyard.

Don't even bring up China. China is expert in copy-paste. Their motto is different.

DRDO promised NAG missile. A futuristic fire-and-forget anti-tank missile with 8 km range. Sounds perfect on paper. They promised Trishul, a VSHORAD missile with 9 km range, again perfect on paper. Both ended up as failures. DRDO promises a lot but delivers little.