Arjun Goes Gold

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

People posting without knowing the whereabouts of the tank...and some Pakistanis..

THERE IS NO SMOKE HERE..........
check yours.............

 

[MrProudIndian]

THERE IS NO SMOKE HERE..........
check yours.............

Mine?Lol mine is fine...rather its smiling seeing your's burning

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Nope! With its excessive weight and width, the Arjun tank has poor operational mobility. It will not be possible to rapidly move it from one area of operation to another on the existing tank transporters or on our rail network.

At 58.5 tonnes, the Arjun is much heavier than the T-90S, which weighs 46.5 tonnes, and is consequently less manoeuvrable. It is too heavy for the available bridges which would need to be laid by the Engineers across the several canals that criss-cross the terrain in the Punjab sector during offensive operations.

However, the Arjuns are highly suited for operating in the desert sectors.

I have seen trains moving Arjuns(this was two or three years ago)!
Even though the Arjun has more weight than the Bhishma/Ajeya,the distribution of the weight is far too impressive!
It's nominal Ground pressure is lesser than the Light weight T90!
Arjun's Ground Pressure is 0.84Kg/Sq.cm while that of T90 is 0.94Kg/Sq.cm!
As far as your maneuverability question goes,the Arjun is more maneuverable due to it's Hydro-pneumatic suspension vis-a-vis conventional Torsion Bars on the T90!
Regarding Road transports,I have also seen Trucks loaded with Arjun MBT's transporting it with relative ease!
As far as your Punjab question goes,our engineer corps have bridges that can handle 70t weight OR are procuring them.
Conclusion-Arjun is as mobile as T90 or in certain cases more!!

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Arjun MK2 is comparable to the M1 Leopard and Merkava tanks not some T72 downgraded copy the MK1 managed to defeat the T90M the most capable tank in our forces in performance trials

 

[Omega007]

Reallly?
the ERA is 100% indegenous made by Gids
i am talking about the things already inducted fuckkk off this nera shera..
lol.sir the kombat range was 5km bt kombat is nt the old one anymore.i suspect its range more than 5km now.

sir you now seem ignorent to me.Pakistan and western countries use mostly the DU rounds..they are usually small bt can d more damage than the long tungston rounds..except the range part which support the tungston ones

Sir why do you think the armor of ak is weaker?any valid reason.the armor of ak with era is over 1000m while the arjun without era is somewhat around 640mm.
now compare yourself the armor
beside this the weight of ak1 is little bit increased due to upgrade it is around 50 tons while the weight of the arjunmk2 will also decrease to 54-55tons
the Ak2 being very advance and 1500hp engine will have atleast 55 tons weight



who told you this bullshit man

What!!Forget the heavy NERA!!Do you even know what are you talking about sir??The Israelis(markava mk4),french(Lecrec) and even the South koreans are using NERA on their latest tanks instead of ERA simply because they are much more reliable,cost effective and safe to operate but most importantly they offer much greater immunity to HEAT warheads as they can stop multiple hits unlike the ERA that is useful against only one hit.PLEASE update yourself sir.
Both the heavy ERA and NERA developed by DRDO ard add on systems,means they will be fitted to the Arjuns in wartime as there is no need to use them in peace time,same as PLA does with their tanks.
By 'weak' armor on Ak,I meant to say it's weaker than Arjun MkI,not T 90M.In 2004,the Kanchan(front turret plate) was able to defeat 8 point blank hits of Israeli IMI MkII FSAPDS T rounds(penetration:680 mm RHA at 2000meter) from a 2A46M2 L52 smoothbore gun and also defeated the Kornet Atgm,then strongest atgm IA had.Now I don't know if Ak armor can do that or not,T90 can't.And how do you know Arjuns' armor is 640mm when it defeated latest Israeli rounds from few hundred meter which according to your tank protection level site has penetration of 650-680mm at 2000 meter??
Arjun MkI has 120mm L52 gun,AK has L48 that means Arjun MkI has a bigger gun hence more firepower.
Kombat atgm is defenately 'obsolete' when compared to the LAHAT atgm for reasons already mentioned,but defenetely not with Refleks,Svir or Kornet.
Make no mistake,Arjun MkII will not be of 55ton,then there would have no need to develop an indigenous 1500 hp engine.Arjun is already lightest among modern tanks with 4 mae crew.While its predecessor Leopard 2A4 has weight of 63 tons,Arjun MkI weighs 59 tons,still Arjun MkI has got wider hull and turret and much thicker side armor than Leo2A4 as you can see yourself that Arjun MkI has huge bulges at both side of its turret which are absent in Leo 2A4.This bulges are additional composite armor with additional ceramic inserts over the main armor.So there is not a big need of ERA either.
REGARDS.....ore damage than the long tungston rounds..except the range part which support the tungston ones

Sir why do you think the armor of ak is weaker?any valid reason.the armor of ak with era is over 1000m while the arjun without era is somewhat around 640mm.
now compare yourself the armor
beside this the weight of ak1 is little bit increased due to upgrade it is around 50 tons while the weight of the arjunmk2 will also decrease to 54-55tons
the Ak2 being very advance and 1500hp engine will have atleast 55 tons weight



who told you this bullshit man[/QUOTE]
What!!Forget the heavy NERA!!Do you even know what are you talking about sir??The Israelis(markava mk4),french(Lecrec) and even the South koreans are using NERA on their latest tanks instead of ERA simply because they are much more reliable,cost effective and safe to operate but most importantly they offer much greater immunity to HEAT warheads as they can stop multiple hits unlike the ERA that is useful against only one hit.PLEASE update yourself sir.
Both the heavy ERA and NERA developed by DRDO ard add on systems,means they will be fitted to the Arjuns in wartime as there is no need to use them in peace time,same as PLA does with their tanks.
By 'weak' armor on Ak,I meant to say it's weaker than Arjun MkI,not T 90M.In 2004,the Kanchan(front turret plate) was able to defeat 8 point blank hits of Israeli IMI MkII FSAPDS T rounds(penetration:680 mm RHA at 2000meter) from a 2A46M2 L52 smoothbore gun and also defeated the Kornet Atgm,then strongest atgm IA had.Now I don't know if Ak armor can do that or not,T90 can't.And how do you know Arjuns' armor is 640mm when it defeated latest Israeli rounds from few hundred meter which according to your tank protection level site has penetration of 650-680mm at 2000 meter??
Arjun MkI has 120mm L52 gun,AK has L48 that means Arjun MkI has a bigger gun hence more firepower.
Kombat atgm is defenately 'obsolete' when compared to the LAHAT atgm for reasons already mentioned,but defenetely not with Refleks,Svir or Kornet.
Make no mistake,Arjun MkII will not be of 55ton,then there would have no need to develop an indigenous 1500 hp engine.Arjun is already lightest among modern tanks with 4 mae crew.While its predecessor Leopard 2A4 has weight of 63 tons,Arjun MkI weighs 59 tons,still Arjun MkI has got wider hull and turret and much thicker side armor than Leo2A4 as you can see yourself that Arjun MkI has huge bulges at both side of its turret which are absent in Leo 2A4.This bulges are additional composite armor with additional ceramic inserts over the main armor.So there is not a big need of ERA either.
REGARDS.....

 

[thinkingcap81]

Hi,

Did Arjun Mk1 defeat T-90S or T-90M? T-90M is supposed to be a very capable tank.

I read somewhere in IDF that T-90M > Arjun.

The general consensus seems to be that T-90S < AlKhalid improved variants but Arjun Mk2 > AlKhalid improved variants

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Hi,

Did Arjun Mk1 defeat T-90S or T-90M? T-90M is supposed to be a very capable tank.

I read somewhere in IDF that T-90M > Arjun.

The general consensus seems to be that T-90S < AlKhalid improved variants but Arjun Mk2 > AlKhalid improved variants

The competition were Ajeya(T72) and Bhishma(T90S).
Yes,T90M is better than ArjunMark1.

 

[Norboo]

I have seen trains moving Arjuns(this was two or three years ago)!
Even though the Arjun has more weight than the Bhishma/Ajeya,the distribution of the weight is far too impressive!
It's nominal Ground pressure is lesser than the Light weight T90!
Arjun's Ground Pressure is 0.84Kg/Sq.cm while that of T90 is 0.94Kg/Sq.cm!

I'm not talking about the kg/sq cm ground pressure! I'm talking about the overall weight!

As far as your maneuverability question goes,the Arjun is more maneuverable due to it's Hydro-pneumatic suspension vis-a-vis conventional Torsion Bars on the T90!

Again, I'm not talking about the intrinsic mobility of the tank. I'm talking about battlefield mobility of the tank per se in switching from one sector to the other either on its own steam or using various modes of transportation.

Regarding Road transports,I have also seen Trucks loaded with Arjun MBT's transporting it with relative ease!

How many tank transporters have you seen? Is there enough such transport available to carry a regiment if not a brigade/combat group worth at one go?

As far as your Punjab question goes,our engineer corps have bridges that can handle 70t weight OR are procuring them.

Procuring them? Let's know when we get them. Till then the mobility of Arjuns over riverine/canal terrain will be severely restricted.

Conclusion-Arjun is as mobile as T90 or in certain cases more!!

Wrong again! It is comparable or slightly better than the T-90s in the deserts but not over terrain as obtaining in Punjab where the latter is most suitable!

Cheers!

 

[Omega007]

The competition were Ajeya(T72) and Bhishma(T90S).
Yes,T90M is better than ArjunMark1.

How so buddy??T 90M has the same turret,hul,armor,ERA,carousel,gun,shorter rounds,torsion bar suspension and no BMS like the T90S,only addition is the Leds 150 APS.That alone can't make it superior to Arjun MkI which has a much stronger gun,thicker armor(NERA-ERA combo during wartime),better optronics,fire control computers,much heavier and longer penetration rods,hydronumatic suspension,BMS,the lowest ground pressure,multi spectral mobile camouflage system that reduces both visual,electromagnetic and infrared signature and the list just goes on an on.So Please feel free to research a bit more before posting something.
REGARDS.........

 

[Kinetic]

Around $4-$5 million each.
Bangladesh Purchases 44 Norinco MBT 2000s « 21st Century Asian Arms Race

MBT-2000 costing 4/5 million is nearly same as T-90S. BD should have bought the Russian tank than Chinese one but I think there will be some financial deal added. Also new T-90M is far more capable.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

I'm not talking about the kg/sq cm ground pressure! I'm talking about the overall weight!
But the GP is the one that counts when the Tank is using it's own legs to move!
Again, I'm not talking about the intrinsic mobility of the tank. I'm talking about battlefield mobility of the tank per se in switching from one sector to the other either on its own steam or using various modes of transportation.
It has better Power/weight ratio too so it is very mobile in the battlefield!
How many tank transporters have you seen? Is there enough such transport available to carry a regiment if not a brigade/combat group worth at one go?
How can 50-60 tanks,be it T90 or Arjun's be transported at one go?!
Procuring them? Let's know when we get them. Till then the mobility of Arjuns over riverine/canal terrain will be severely restricted.
They are procuring them!
Arjun BLT Armored Bridgelayer | Military-Today.com
Wrong again! It is comparable or slightly better than the T-90s in the deserts but not over terrain as obtaining in Punjab where the latter is most suitable!
How?!

Cheers!

My comments in bold.
Can you please enlighten me about the points you've made
Thanks.

 

[Omega007]

I'm not talking about the kg/sq cm ground pressure! I'm talking about the overall weight!

Again, I'm not talking about the intrinsic mobility of the tank. I'm talking about battlefield mobility of the tank per se in switching from one sector to the other either on its own steam or using various modes of transportation.

How many tank transporters have you seen? Is there enough such transport available to carry a regiment if not a brigade/combat group worth at one go?

Procuring them? Let's know when we get them. Till then the mobility of Arjuns over riverine/canal terrain will be severely restricted.

Wrong again! It is comparable or slightly better than the T-90s in the deserts but not over terrain as obtaining in Punjab where the latter is most suitable!

Cheers!

Enough of your this heavy weight bs.It has been proven time and time again that in a modern battlefield,whenever the heavy weight meets the midium weight,it's game over for the later.Did you forget how the 'fat and ugly' M1 Abrams just f**ked up those 'sleek and sexy' T 72s in desert storm??
And why do you think that T 90s will perform bettdr in punjab valley than Arjun MkI when Arjun has lower ground pressure than that of those 38 ton T 55s??in punjab valley than Arjun MkI when Arjun has lower ground pressure than that of those 38 ton T 55s??

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

@Omega-I read that the T90M has superior SPS with Kaktus embedded ERA which is better than the ones on the T90S which has the Kontakt5(but we did not order them)
Can you provide sources for Arjun Mark1 having NERA/ERA.
Edit-Also,the SAAB LEDS is what we have ordered for our T90's and it is not a standard equipment on the T-series as far as I know

 

[shrivatsa]

How so buddy??T 90M has the same turret,hul,armor,ERA,carousel,gun,shorter rounds,torsion bar suspension and no BMS like the T90S,only addition is the Leds 150 APS.That alone can't make it superior to Arjun MkI which has a much stronger gun,thicker armor(NERA-ERA combo during wartime),better optronics,fire control computers,much heavier and longer penetration rods,hydronumatic suspension,BMS,the lowest ground pressure,multi spectral mobile camouflage system that reduces both visual,electromagnetic and infrared signature and the list just goes on an on.So Please feel free to research a bit more before posting something.
REGARDS........t alone can't make it superior to Arjun MkI which has a much stronger gun,thicker armor(NERA-ERA combo during wartime),better optronics,fire control computers,much heavier and longer penetration rods,hydronumatic suspension,BMS,the lowest ground pressure,multi spectral mobile camouflage system that reduces both visual,electromagnetic and infrared signature and the list just goes on an on.So Please feel free to research a bit more before posting something.
REGARDS........

Can you point towards any articles regarding development of NERA by DRDO

 

[LiberalAtheist]

look........

in terms of capability the tank order goes like this from the specs i've seen of each tank (and i have) from best to least capable

currently (from best to least capable)

1. T90M
2. Arjun MK1
4. T90S Bhishma
3. T72 Ajeya with modern systems
4. upgraded T55's with modern systems
4. T72 non upgraded original batch procured in 70's and 80's
5. ancient T55's that are in reserve along with Vjijayanta tanks

pretty soon Arjun MK2 will dominate as #1 on the list above and be one of the world's finest tanks by the next decade India's tank force will be either the 4th or 3rd largest in the world with several thousand tanks including 2,000 upgraded T72's 1,640 T90 tanks most of them T90M's the rest being Bishmas a couple hundred Arjun tanks (more if IA stops being a bunch of arseholes) and an unknown number of FMBT's