Hi,
First of all---I am very disappopinted at the quality of assessment by most of the posters. It is shamefully incompetent and full of inadequacies.
Dear mastan Khan
Brother thank you for responding to my post. I am sorry that we as a forum have disappointed you and have not produced any convincing piece of scripture which could have made you happy.Again, it depends whether you want to be convinced or not!! In my view nothing will convince you as you are not listening to what we are trying to tell you.
If this was your PHD thesis---you people would have failed miserably.
The examiner is not talking about any sanctions---the word sanction does not exist---. It is a simple stupid question---so intsead of keeping the answer simple and stupid---all un-neccessary scenarios are being brought out.
Again i was not aware that we were being examined.There are some examiners who make life difficult for the candidates and it is perhaps better to give them a wide berth
. However, jokes aside, I have read each and everyone of your posts with great care. I commend you for having presented an argument against the vein of feelings in the forum.I consider it a bold step as you appear to be a lone voice with few followers, yet you bravely soldier on.However Professor!! may I most humbly remind you that PHD thesis do not necessarily conform to the opinions of the reader, but try and give a new twist to the situation in hand contrary to established beliefs. It is your argument that wins you a pass or fail, not the conformity of your thesis.
First of all Araz---if you read all my posts---I always talk about the time between 2002 and 2005---the reason being---pakistani coffers were full---we had money---Musharraf was openly talkiong about it----that time period is what I always emphasize upon the readers conveniently forget.
It was the kashmir earth quake that broke the back of pakistani finance
---.
Mastan I read all your posts carefully. I will grant you that you refer to the peiod 2002-05, however you miss the fact that the thunder project was delayed for well over three yrs for financial reasons. the reasons for it becomes irrelevant. I will not delve into the reasons for it, for some of the reasons remain unknown, however the fact remains that the project was delayed and I think it was an unwise decision
in view of the information at hand
Before that paf was running around everywhere seeking aircraft of their choice----that is when they had placed the order of I believe 72 F 16's---the earthqauke took all the money away---pakistan's bad performance in the war against terror turned away many a sellers---pak with its limited resources was left with the JF 17 only---that is what happened---they re-invested in that program and salvaged what they could.
I beg to differ , PAF only had 2 options open to it, F16s and M2Ks. What you are conveniently forgetting is that world over USA never or hardly ever loses a race when it comes to fighter jets. Their deals inspite of their restrictions are still too juicy for most countries to resist. You can see why Rafale has no buyers and why EF Typhoons has made so few sales inspite of clearly being a better plane. Pakistans misfortune is also the spectre of aid and the prospect of MLU of their current fleet of f16s, which would give them a bigger bang for the buck than anything else. Also mano e mano F16 vs gripen is a no brainer. You are also forgetting that gripen may have come but where would the armaments including BVR have come from? What price would the french have extracted for their BVRs and how good were they in that period. Plus would the US have allowed us to buy from Sweden when we could have had F16s. Be pragmatic and see the light of the day man___ we did not have a choice. Another factor that you forget is that it was not the earhtquake but Musharraf's visit to china and the demo of the J10 which was also a big game changer for PAF.
In defence procurement---when you are facing an enemy the size of india---you always look out for equipment which is superior in nature, of a known manufacture, which has a proven service record of reliability and quality.
Wrong!! Mr examiner, it would have resulted in Pakistan being bankrupt and still india would have gone for other even better planes. Our strategy since the seventies and perhaps even earlier has been one of deterrance and buying just enough to maintain status Quo. From that point of view Bl52s are a fairly good buy along with serious updates of the old Bl15s.
In this case---the examiner is not asking for any SOB stories from pakistanis---.
Pakistanis went after the grippen knowing it was an interceptor---because that is what was they needed---they wanted a tool to neutralize indian superiority somehow or the other.
Americans wanted to control us---why would they let the swedes sell us an fighter that can control the skies----the awacs is a different thing---even though it is a force multiplier---but it is the fighetr interceptor that rules the skies.
They wanted to control us so much that they gave us a better plane!!! Control me any day BABY!!!
Even though the ACM in the posted video is talking about ---oh the grippen was not a multirole aircraft---I want to ask him then what were you doing over there in the first place---you were evaluating that plane for close to two years---what was the purpose of that in wasting the money of the national exchequer looking at something that the aircraft didnbot seek.
I am positive that the ACM is giving wrong statement to cover his behind----I firmly believe that the americans wanted us back in seat in the blk 52---with all the goodies---and carrot and stick---keep us using their equipment---they can keep an eye on us and control our movement.
The bottomline---any aircraft of western origin in 2002 till 2005 was better than the jf 17 of 2013.
Simple PAF always had a backup plan and always wanted F16s .When the door opened they backed out. I would also debate the very fact that the Gripen was actually available. Publically musharraf was denied the plane. I do not profess to know the inside talk, so wont comment on that.
Next Araz----when you go to war---that is not the time to go find a hook up for the BVR---the question is which BVR system---you have to have an operational bvr system is place---.
When you go do brain surgery---that is not the day to learn about brain surgery---it is the ten years preceding that surgery when you learn what you are going to do.
F86---it is your oppurtunity to learn---when you compare equipment---one has moving parts and the other has non moving parts---there is no technical comparison.
It is a silly comparison to compare fake chinese phones with mechanical equipment of known brand name.
Let me ask you---if your little brother was on his death bed with a sickness---what medication would your dad want to chose for him----the fake chinese name sake---or the real american---swedish---swiss---or japanese medication.
If your dad didnot pick up the fake chinese----then why do we pick up second grade stuff for our mother---why do we treat our child different than our motherland.
When you pickup a weapons system that has to go up against an enemy which can put two to three times thenumbers----then you ought to have an item that can last twice as long as the enemys---you oughty ot have a plane that has a very very short turn around time----an engine that works thousands of hours----a system that can be updated and upgraded on the run---a plane that can give out 110% every single time it goes out.
Will not contst this for the moment. However, I will remind you that most of the hi-tec equipment that you see in the market these days with fancy names has "made in China" written on it. Mastan you are commiting a grave error in not recognizing the chinese effort, hard work and progress.
Lastly---even today---the jf 17 is still not independantly operational aircraft---it will be put into service while still being tested---it is still learing the job it has to grow into---it is year ---it will be another 2---3 years when this frame with its current equipment will start to prove or disprove its capabilities.
It takes yrs to master a plane and devise its strategies as you yourself said. F22 is still not operational, but push comes to shove, will USAF withold its use!!!!There is lots going on that is not apparent to us.
Right now all you hear is----THE MOTHER OF A NEW BORN BABY TELLING EVERYONE HOW PRETTY THE UGLY CHILD IS.[/QUOTE]
Whats so wrong with it.My Mum always says I am pretty, and believe me I am not
!!!!!
Kindest regards
Araz
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) companies are reducing their R&D in international operations....a strange but eye opener......on the other hand Chinese are dead serious about their business
