Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

I couldn't agree more. This is our first aircraft in making. Will eventually develop into a radical fighter. Give it some time and some investment and it will turn out to be a mainstream fighter.

Exactly the right attitude, kind sir! Bless you all.

Keep up the good work. Build upon it.

But most important thing is to build your human and industrial infrastructure.

If the policy makers in your good country have a vision and skills of execution.. you can support your national defence needs to a greater extent from your defence products export.

However, it would require effort at all levels of your good government.

Personally, if one is allowed a foreign perspective, you have done rather well. Keep going and just sell and shove JF 1.0 to ME, Asia, Africa, Central Asias and Latin America. JF2.0 will really sell itself then.

All the very best in all your pursuits of national development and maintaining peace.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What IS a calvanistic ethic?

Calvinism was never widespread here, but it is the core of Protestant Work Ethics,
which emphasis Hard Work, Discipline and Honesty.

 

[PakEye]

Hi,
Gripen was never the target for a buy---it was the foundations that the JF17 was to be based upon---. That was already decided when paf started checking out this aircraft.
Paf paid the price by procuring the swedish awacs---.

Sir
look at the LCA program they are delaying the production but they are equipped this aircraft with every possible available state of the art technology.
than we started JFT in the " chakkar" of world first low cost aircraft. We Produced JF-17 Block-I without AESA , IRST , & FBW than during Parvaiz Musharraf era the western countries was in favor of Pakistan. Now we are looking the options for AESA, IRST, FBW, HMD & more powerful engine, for Block-III my question why Block-III why not from the begning of Block-I ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir
look at the LCA program they are delaying the production but they are equipped this aircraft with every possible available state of the art technology.
than we started JFT in the " chakkar" of world first low cost aircraft. We Produced JF-17 Block-I without AESA , IRST , & FBW than during Parvaiz Musharraf era the western countries was in favor of Pakistan. Now we are looking the options for AESA, IRST, FBW, HMD & more powerful engine, for Block-III my question why Block-III why not from the begning of Block-I ?

Hi,

What we are looking for the block3 is what we were supposed to have in the BLK 1---the french EW suite---years ago.

As for the engine---it is doing well. Power output is not an issue---. If it is changed---it will be for other reasons.

 

[zebra7]

Sir
look at the LCA program they are delaying the production but they are equipped this aircraft with every possible available state of the art technology.
than we started JFT in the " chakkar" of world first low cost aircraft. We Produced JF-17 Block-I without AESA , IRST , & FBW than during Parvaiz Musharraf era the western countries was in favor of Pakistan. Now we are looking the options for AESA, IRST, FBW, HMD & more powerful engine, for Block-III my question why Block-III why not from the begning of Block-I ?

For that Delay IAF have to pay the price, in the form of the Mig-21 Bison Upgrade, and MIG-27 UPG upgrade. Second reason Might be due to high number of SU-30 MKI.

 

[volatile]

Hi,

What we are looking for the block3 is what we were supposed to have in the BLK 1---the french EW suite---years ago.

As for the engine---it is doing well. Power output is not an issue---. If it is changed---it will be for other reasons.

I can understand the need for that to have BVR capable platform also some older platforms we need urgent replacement but pushing for sales with block 1,2 seems a bad idea as any buyer would have paid easily around 50 Mil a piece with AESA ,IRST and other goodies .Is this narration correct?

 

[MastanKhan]

I can understand the need for that to have BVR capable platform also some older platforms we need urgent replacement but pushing for sales with block 1,2 seems a bad idea as any buyer would have paid easily around 50 Mil a piece with AESA ,IRST and other goodies .Is this narration correct?

Hi,

Your comments are somewhat correct---. Out of sheer incompetence---paf offered the aircraft at half the price what they could have sold the aircraft for---if they had done better research---.

Which is---a full fledged operational single and double seater---with a fully dedicated EW suite and weapons---.

The price tag on the non aesa and chinese EW package equipped JF17 should have been at 30-35 mil + a piece---and aesa equipped would be in the 40 to 45 mil with european EW suite and chinese aesa for around 35-40 mil.

It is basic car sales---start high---and you can always come low---start low and you are doomed---start too high---and you have a problem---.

But for success to happen---your product has to be ready in all form and fucntion---. The twin seater should have been built right after the production started on the first batch of the JF17's.

Don't reduce the price---add some other goodies with the main item.

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

Sir
look at the LCA program they are delaying the production but they are equipped this aircraft with every possible available state of the art technology.
than we started JFT in the " chakkar" of world first low cost aircraft. We Produced JF-17 Block-I without AESA , IRST , & FBW than during Parvaiz Musharraf era the western countries was in favor of Pakistan. Now we are looking the options for AESA, IRST, FBW, HMD & more powerful engine, for Block-III my question why Block-III why not from the begning of Block-I ?

I think you are missing the whole point of evolution. You see F-16, was it Block 60 from the moment it was produced in late 80's or did it evolve. Point is Pakistan doesn't need all Block 3 everything integrated aircrafts. Not all US squadron's are equipped with the latest one's. The point is you have to develop a program which can evolve with the passage of time. Rather then waiting 30 years to roll out a complete package, you have to try different levels and then integrate as per your requirement. Pakistan has done a great job by evolving and we should appreciate it under the circumstances of low budget and international sanctions. You are seeing a great bird as per our needs for all type of operations. Insha Allah it is and will always be a pride of Pakistan.

 

[PakEye]

I think you are missing the whole point of evolution. You see F-16, was it Block 60 from the moment it was produced in late 80's or did it evolve. Point is Pakistan doesn't need all Block 3 everything integrated aircrafts. Not all US squadron's are equipped with the latest one's. The point is you have to develop a program which can evolve with the passage of time. Rather then waiting 30 years to roll out a complete package, you have to try different levels and then integrate as per your requirement. Pakistan has done a great job by evolving and we should appreciate it under the circumstances of low budget and international sanctions. You are seeing a great bird as per our needs for all type of operations. Insha Allah it is and will always be a pride of Pakistan.

We have limited resources can we afford to invest money on Block by Block production of JF-17 to match F-16 Block-60 level and question is after how long time we will reached to F-16 Block-60 level ?
In the Result the buyers like Malaysia, Egypt and Argentina delaying their interest in JFT after comparing other option like Grippen as you know Grippen have AESA, FBW, and powerful engine than JFT .
So after experiment of Block-I than converting all Block-I into Blcok-II after about a dacade now we are considering AESA, FBW, Airefueling probe and IRST and JF-17B dual seat for training of buyer countries.

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

We have limited resources can we afford to invest money on Block by Block production of JF-17 to match F-16 Block-60 level and question is after how long time we will reached to F-16 Block-60 level ?
In the Result the buyers like Malaysia, Egypt and Argentina delaying their interest in JFT after comparing other option like Grippen as you know Grippen have AESA, FBW, and powerful engine than JFT .
So after experiment of Block-I than converting all Block-I into Blcok-II after about a dacade now we are considering AESA, FBW, Airefueling probe and IRST and JF-17B dual seat for training of buyer countries.

You should explore other markets how many aircrafts are being marketed with AESA radars. The question is can you afford it. Secondly client request means modification which is part of evolvement. Since we already have a running product, new technologies can be integrated and made at par. Also various components are being tested. The Airforce doesn't work as per our requirements. They have their own plans and needs and they are trying to upgrade as per their own programme.

 

[PakEye]

You should explore other markets how many aircrafts are being marketed with AESA radars. The question is can you afford it. Secondly client request means modification which is part of evolvement. Since we already have a running product, new technologies can be integrated and made at par. Also various components are being tested. The Airforce doesn't work as per our requirements. They have their own plans and needs and they are trying to upgrade as per their own programme.

Why Argentina choose the second hand Kfir Aircraft on JF-17 because of the ELTA AESA radar, why Brazil buying Grippen because marketed with AESA radar and other technologies.
If you like to compete in international market than you must provide all requirements Now to buyer countries as provided your competitors Grippen, kfir and as you know the Indians are trying to cancel the Pak Sri Lanka JFT deal we must equipped the JFT with all available state of the art technologies if we want to compete in International Market.

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

And you think Pakistan is not working on it.

Both deals have soft loans integrated in them for the deals to be effective.

 

[volatile]

Hi,

Your comments are somewhat correct---. Out of sheer incompetence---paf offered the aircraft at half the price what they could have sold the aircraft for---if they had done better research---.

Which is---a full fledged operational single and double seater---with a fully dedicated EW suite and weapons---.

The price tag on the non aesa and chinese EW package equipped JF17 should have been at 30-35 mil + a piece---and aesa equipped would be in the 40 to 45 mil with european EW suite and chinese aesa for around 35-40 mil.

It is basic car sales---start high---and you can always come low---start low and you are doomed---start too high---and you have a problem---.

But for success to happen---your product has to be ready in all form and fucntion---. The twin seater should have been built right after the production started on the first batch of the JF17's.

Don't reduce the price---add some other goodies with the main item.

Couldn't agree more as being Industrial Sales Man our key offerings are nor lesser price but offering more value . I guess only time will tell (If we just look back how ,why we make those choices) there are many powerful tools available for root cause analysis my favorite 4W+H ,or 4M analysis for any decision making (Man,Method,Mechanism, Material) .So logical step forward should be twin seater infact that should have been from the start .EW Sort of growler version , Maritime version .

 

[PakEye]

And you think Pakistan is not working on it.

Both deals have soft loans integrated in them for the deals to be effective.

Allah knows better, But
If you want the competition than must provide all buyer requirements Now.
Malaysia, and Egypt have hard cash.

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

Hahhahahahahha. Get your facts right. Egypt is buying every military item from the French loans it is getting. It's all over the news and defense articles. Malaysia can become a potential buyer if properly marketed.