Are we the custodians of the Muslim Ummah?

[AUz]

I am a bit confused here !!! If Pakistan comes first , and then comes the religion , then why the hell was pakistan even created ?? We share nothing , punjabis are totally different from baluchis and pakthuns !! ethnicity , history , language , culture , geography , climate , society ... everything . Was two nation theory, a lie, told by our ancestors ? What about the prophet (pbuh) saying muslims are one ummah !!! ......................And who dares to say that "to hell with ummah" can go and f*** himself

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of North-Western subcontinent...

And diversity among a nation is a normal thing...you don't all have to be same ethnicity to form a nation..

Pakistan comes first, Islam second....

Your identity is Pakistan, not "islam"....

Arabs, Turks, Iranian don't give a sh!t about you..they laugh at you..and consider you as being an 'inferior', 'ugly' person. Take pride in YOUR nation...make it the most kicka$$ nation around...crying "ummah" ummah will do you no good, kid.

 

[EasyNow]

I get so irritated by this ridiculous Ummah talk - what ummah are we talking about? The very day after the prophet's death there was disagreement within the ummah (which was the greatest ummah of all).

Within a few years his favourite, Hazrat Ali, was murdered. Within 10 years hundreds of Sahaba were killed in battles. Remember these people sat with, ate with, walked and talked with the greatest man who ever lived - and they were all killed by guess who? The ummah.

Hazrat Aisha herself, took arms against her son-like nephew Hzt Ali. Where is this muslim unity that everyone talks about? From that day to this the ummah has always fought within itself. If we follow the example of the Sahaba, Aisha and Ali and everyone else who came afterwards then we should know that everyone is only interested in looking after their own groups.

So take your rose-tinted glasses off, get off your podium and start acting a little bit humble. If you are realistic about our past, maybe you can be realistic about the future. First worry about yourself, then your neighbour, then your neighbourhood and then start to even imagine the rest of the world.

 

[M. Sarmad]

National identity does have its own significance, which has been acknowledge by Islam also. I also use to wonder why Islam has recognised tribes, countries and geographical boundaries. Now I realise it, when I look at the current state of Muslims. I don't think it is Ummah any more. It is a concocted version of sectarianism. different factions trying to impose their own belief on others and considering all other schools of thought as infidels. In present situation priority should be given to nationalism as Pakistanis. When consolidation as nation is done then we can look forward to reincarnation of Ummah.

You are missing the point here ... Germans would still be germans without a germany , A japanese would be a japanese even if Japan siezes to exist .,, its because of the ethnicity , language and culture ... But Pakistan is a totally different case ... its neither a ethnic , nor a geo-cultural entity .. It is purely an IDEOLOGICAL state and if you negate its very ideology , then it is practically impossible to hold the country together as common religion is the only binding force between the entirely different ethnic groups of our country .. I agree that secterianism has become a major issue , but what you are suggesting is more like "throwing the sick person out of the house" instead of trying to cure his ailment

 

[M. Sarmad]

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of North-Western subcontinent...

And diversity among a nation is a normal thing...you don't all have to be same ethnicity to form a nation..

Pakistan comes first, Islam second....

Your identity is Pakistan, not "islam"....

Arabs, Turks, Iranian don't give a sh!t about you..they laugh at you..and consider you as being an 'inferior', 'ugly' person. Take pride in YOUR nation...make it the most kicka$$ nation around...crying "ummah" ummah will do you no good, kid.

Pakistan was created for muslims of north west sub continent only ?? to become a nation you should have atleast some thing common , unfortunately in this case we have nothing in common except our religion ... You have no idea about what an ideological state is... so its better that you go back to school and take a few history and philosophy classes KID

 

[M. Sarmad]

I get so irritated by this ridiculous Ummah talk - what ummah are we talking about? The very day after the prophet's death there was disagreement within the ummah (which was the greatest ummah of all).

Within a few years his favourite, Hazrat Ali, was murdered. Within 10 years hundreds of Sahaba were killed in battles. Remember these people sat with, ate with, walked and talked with the greatest man who ever lived - and they were all killed by guess who? The ummah.

Hazrat Aisha herself, took arms against her son-like nephew Hzt Ali. Where is this muslim unity that everyone talks about? From that day to this the ummah has always fought within itself. If we follow the example of the Sahaba, Aisha and Ali and everyone else who came afterwards then we should know that everyone is only interested in looking after their own groups.

So take your rose-tinted glasses off, get off your podium and start acting a little bit humble. If you are realistic about our past, maybe you can be realistic about the future. First worry about yourself, then your neighbour, then your neighbourhood and then start to even imagine the rest of the world.

Now that is a prelude of a typical secterian approach !!! All muslims believe in one quran , and that quran says "Hold tight to the rope of Allah and do not divide" ..... Quranic wisdom is absolute wisdom . we should follow it , and if we cant , then atleast we should not openly express ourselves when our thoughts contradict with quran (If we say that we r muslims)

 

[EasyNow]

Now that is a prelude of a typical secterian approach !!! All muslims believe in one quran , and that quran says "Hold tight to the rope of Allah and do not divide" ..... Quranic wisdom is absolute wisdom . we should follow it , and if we cant , then atleast we should not openly express ourselves when our thoughts contradict with quran (If we say that we r muslims)

It is exactly the sectarian approach that i'm trying to denounce here! What i'm saying is that Muslims have been divided since day one because of sects - isn't it more reasonable that all sects should live in peace in one country and unite under support for that country. If someone is more concerned for the wider ummah than for their fellow countrymen, then neither are they a good patriot or a good muslim - as Islam says help your neighbours first.

 

[Aamna14]

Depends from where one's looking at it but if a Pakistani questions that "are we the custodians of Islam?" then it begs the question that when has the state or the media ever taken a pro Islamic stance? Narrating history and saying there wasn't an Ummah is incorrect as well the Ummah doesn't constitute of only a certain groups of people it includes the entire Muslim world. And the Muslim world does share a deep connection as much as people might like to add that some nations look down upon so and so. Its not too hard to reconcile the two things, being a Pakistani and a well wisher of the Ummah.

 

[funtoosh]

No, sorry.

We got enlightened. We can't go back to a religion that regards human being as "untouchables" b/c of his birth in a certain caste. Also, we can't worship cow dung..nor drink cow p!ss as a religious ritual.

Kindly, join us in our enlightened state..and convert to Islam....

mister, religon did not say people are untouchables. people did. it is better than treating others as kafir though. why are you going to foreign culture when you had your own. have some ghairat and follow dharma path.

 

[AUz]

mister, religon did not say people are untouchables. people did. it is better than treating others as kafir though. why are you going to foreign culture when you had your own. have some ghairat and follow dharma path.

Religion does. Thats why you still have caste system. It was/is "ingrained" in Hinduism...

And we aren't going to foreign culture. I have my own punjabi culture, you need to grow up.

 

[funtoosh]

Religion does. Thats why you still have caste system. It was/is "ingrained" in Hinduism...

And we aren't going to foreign culture. I have my own punjabi culture, you need to grow up.

no unfortunately you dont understand hinduism, hinduism is not one system. also caste was not part of hinduism, you need to learn that. so if that part is proved i assume you will convert to your original great religon rather than adopting foreign culture? islamic culture is arab so it foreign. punjabi culture is what is followed in delhi and amritsar..

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Religion does. Thats why you still have caste system. It was/is "ingrained" in Hinduism...

And we aren't going to foreign culture. I have my own punjabi culture, you need to grow up.

No it does not. Dharmic culture is composite. For me Gita can be holy, for another Manu Smriti(lame) and nothing for another. They are all Hindu. There is nothing ingrained in any Dharmic faith.

 

[funtoosh]

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of North-Western subcontinent...

And diversity among a nation is a normal thing...you don't all have to be same ethnicity to form a nation..

Pakistan comes first, Islam second....

Your identity is Pakistan, not "islam"....

Arabs, Turks, Iranian don't give a sh!t about you..they laugh at you..and consider you as being an 'inferior', 'ugly' person. Take pride in YOUR nation...make it the most kicka$$ nation around...crying "ummah" ummah will do you no good, kid.

false. pak was created as muslims for whole of indian subcontinent. which is why bangladesh was part of pak. So you are still obliged to take in 180 million muslims from india.

 

[M. Sarmad]

mister, religon did not say people are untouchables. people did. it is better than treating others as kafir though. why are you going to foreign culture when you had your own. have some ghairat and follow dharma path.

This concept of Karma and Dharma , your veds , caste system etc. all comes from Aryans .. right ? Who were Aryans ? FOREIGN INVADRES.... , who invaded India , became jains , budhs and ultimately hindus and the locals (dravidians) adopted their religion . but never got any social status in aryan rule and to this day the locals are "un touchables" in hindu culture!!! So if muslims were foreign invaders , so were Aryans ...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of North-Western subcontinent...

And diversity among a nation is a normal thing...you don't all have to be same ethnicity to form a nation..

Pakistan comes first, Islam second....

Your identity is Pakistan, not "islam"....

Arabs, Turks, Iranian don't give a sh!t about you..they laugh at you..and consider you as being an 'inferior', 'ugly' person. Take pride in YOUR nation...make it the most kicka$$ nation around...crying "ummah" ummah will do you no good, kid.

wrong sir pakistan was created by the so called "divide&rule" policy of british cause they always wanted a strong hold in India and the first seeds were sown by british in 1905 when they divided bengal on basis of relegeon by lord clive if i remeber properli and british fanned the fire of hindu muslim hatred and the peak came when india got divided

they roped in muslim nawabs and jageerdars of bengal and UP to do so they even helped them creat the muslim leauge for the same jinnah and iqubal were just pawns in this game...Pakistan was created for the feudals by the feudlas to aid british empire& interests which they did and still are doing onli the masters are now americans

as for pakistani publick they were given a lolly of patriotism/hate india and thekedaari of so called ummah..

AMEER E SHEHER GAREEBON KO LOOT LETA HAI
KABHI BANAM E WATAN TO KABHI BALEEH E MAZHAB

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This concept of Karma and Dharma , your veds , caste system etc. all comes from Aryans .. right ? Who were Aryans ? FOREIGN INVADRES.... , who invaded India , became jains , budhs and ultimately hindus and the locals (dravidians) adopted their religion . but never got any social status in aryan rule and to this day the locals are "un touchables" in hindu culture!!! So if muslims were foreign invaders , so were Aryans ...

Chill dude. The Aryan theory is still in dispute. Just when we thought one is true, something else props up. Dharma has evolved over centuries. But it did not come from anywhere. Animists deep in South India also had Dharmic rituals. It is not a monolithic structure. If you are getting it from Pakistan Studies, then God help you.

Anyway, please stick to the topic folks.