Are TURKEY and PAKISTAN really ALLIES?

[Beast]

I just had to comment on this.
Way before the Xinjiang you had with several Pakistanis we had the likes of Pher and the minority of other bigoted Chinese posters who had something against Pakistan being Muslim and why China was helping. Their stupid and often outrageous posts didn't change our opinion of China being close to us, yet these exchanges changed yours, and you are all for being neutral?
You have to ask yourself this question just whose will and belief was stronger, the vast majority of Pakistanis who let these posts go, or the minority Chinese who changed their minds over some posts made.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion, it was just worth discussing.

Too say a fair word. It takes 2 hands to clap. Are u sure there is no insult and biased when dealing with Chinese side here? Many times, I have seen comment by long time Pakistanis members including appointed think tank analyst having the mentality China made product are all low quality even in the year 2020 context. Plenty of ignorance from Pakistanis members when they blindly accept western media news about China and start criticizing China policy even its the same western media news which report Pakistan harbour Osama Bin Laden and claim Pakistan is collaborating with terrorist. I guess none of the Pakistanis members will accept this piece of western report ,right?

I do notice a trend of since 2014, there is a massive fundamental change in this forum with rapid establish of Turkish exclusive forum, highly protected with their self appointed Turkish moderator. Even new Pakistanis moderator appointed are more inclined towards Turkish and protective towards them. Countless members of arabs, iranian, uae and Chinese members ban when pointed out against Turkish while plenty of Turkish hotheaded members who repeatly insulted other nation looks immune or received minor infraction with no backlash. Look at MM-E who has spew countless insult can still managed to survive in this forum. He is only ban twice due to his over demand of Turkish stance towards moderator filled with insult. Other than that, he will be safe with his aggressive stance against others nation. It is unimaginable for other nation members other than Pakistanis and turkish , these are allowed in here who will be swift to meet with permanent ban.

I have sense some kind of background finance maybe has infiltrated this forum to cause the shift of balance.

 

[beijingwalker]

I just had to comment on this.
Way before the Xinjiang you had with several Pakistanis we had the likes of Pher and the minority of other bigoted Chinese posters who had something against Pakistan being Muslim and why China was helping. Their stupid and often outrageous posts didn't change our opinion of China being close to us, yet these exchanges changed yours, and you are all for being neutral?
You have to ask yourself this question just whose will and belief was stronger, the vast majority of Pakistanis who let these posts go, or the minority Chinese who changed their minds over some posts made.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion, it was just worth discussing.

You are a very balanced moderator and get full of my respect, but there's some moderator here is very against China. When I mean neutral I mean I wish one day Pakistan and India can realize they have to come to terms and they can't destroy each other , the mindless feud has to go and the regular killing has to stop.
The obssession of destroying each other have wasted too much money and resources, sinificantly slowed down your development, as a long time friend, we really don't like to see regular people suffer from this madness, Pakistan used to be far richer than China, we hope she can focus more on development and improving people's living standards and develop with us, that's all the Chinese investments for, we are not a good in helping you fighting wars like US, no one can come close to US in wars and conflicts, but we are the best in development and poverty reduction, we hope we can help with something we are good at, sincerely I want to see how your economy improved rather than how many high tech jets, choppers you buy.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The problem is he kind of claims that Pakistan owes Turkey some favor for Turkey's speaking for Pakistan over Kashmir issues, didn't Pakistan speak for Turkey over Syria, Cyprus, Armenia, Kurdish and various other issues? Turkey actually has more issues than Pakistan does.

Pakistan and Turkey have the same enemies. It has become blatantly clear. Even China has similar enemies. Instead of feuding with esch other, we should help each other throw off imperialists and work for economic betterment.

Turkey is the gateway to Europe and Levant. Pakistan is the gateway to the Middle East and Central Asia.

China is a large market which needs to diversify buyers and secure imports.

You can choose not to take the money. Saudi never force Pakistan to take that loan. When Imran Khan went to Saudi in 2018 asking for loan. You know that you owe Saudi a favor. Without the Saudi loan, Pakistan economy is sure to default and declared bankrupt and ended up like Argentina. The summit is not just about talking kashmir issue but a coalition against Saudi and OIC..

Gulf regimes demands to back away from Kashmir is unacceptable.

Kuala Lumpur summit was about formulating an which already there. A bloc which represented the interests of neother KSA or Iran, but was independent of all superpowers.

OIC is already dead and useless.

 

[Beast]

Pakistan and Turkey have the same enemies. It has become blatantly clear. Even China has similar enemies. Instead of feuding with esch other, we should help each other throw off imperialists and work for economic betterment.

Turkey is the gateway to Europe and Levant. Pakistan is the gateway to the Middle East and Central Asia.

China is a large market which needs to diversify buyers and secure imports.



Gulf regimes demands to back away from Kashmir is unacceptable.

Kuala Lumpur summit was about formulating an which already there. A bloc which represented the interests of neother KSA or Iran, but was independent of all superpowers.

OIC is already dead and useless.

I don't think Saudi ask u to back away on Kashmir issue. I do know they never raise the issue of Kashmir in OIC They just want Imran Khan stay away KL summit which is anti-saudi agenda. Talking about backstab, if Imran Khan did attend the summit. Isn't it backstab the Saudi who lend u money at your most critical moment? Pakistan is the one asking Saudi for money. That does not sound righteous since u only care for your own Interest while ignore others who help u. That doesn't sound moral.

 

[PeacefulWar]

The crux of the matter is, and which many Pakistanis can't realize it is, that there is no China - Pak "bhai bhai"....our culture, language and religions are very different.

We do have a solid relationship on a governmental level, that too because we need each other due to geopolitics, which has blossomed into a economic and military partnership......but make no mistake.....of the 1B+ people in China, most don't even know that Pakistan exists.....hence why you have certain Chinese who're extremely toxic because they're brainwashed by their uber nationalist govt. to be nationalistic (which is why nationalism is condemned in Islam) and then you have "neutral" Chinese.......whereas we have Pakistanis extending the hands of friendship all the time even when it doesn't benefit them and in some cases, even harms them...

The Chinese, majority of them, also don't make any effort to learn about their so called iron brother and their culture....they have a superiority complex against us....but an inferiority complex when faced with Western Civ. (which Islamic Civ. triumphed over for a millenia).

Just my 2 cents.

I'm relatively new to this forum and I have seen many toxic posts from you already. Some of them are even racism.
What a hypercritical and disgusting person!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I don't think Saudi ask u to back away on Kashmir issue. I do know they never raise the issue of Kashmir in OIC They just want Imran Khan stay away KL summit which is anti-saudi agenda. Talking about backstab, if Imran Khan did attend the summit. Isn't it backstab the Saudi who lend u money at your most critical moment? Pakistan is the one asking Saudi for money. That does not sound righteous since u only care for your own Interest while ignore others who help u. That doesn't sound moral.

KL summit was not anti-Saudi.

Link me a statement of KSA against Kashmir atrocities recently if available? They are fully backing India now.

For Pakistan, that is a red line.

 

[Beast]

KL summit was not anti-Saudi.

Link me a statement of KSA against Kashmir atrocities recently if available? They are fully backing India now.

For Pakistan, that is a red line.

Stop avoiding the issue. Turkey, Iran and Qatar joining hands. Saudi view is as threat. I will say Pakistan is a hero if they never take Saudi money but u take others money and decide to backstab them. You are no different from hypocrite if Imran khan did attend the summit.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Stop avoiding the issue. Turkey, Iran and Qatar joining hands. Saudi view is as threat. I will say Pakistan is a hero if they never take Saudi money but u take others money and decide to backstab them. You are no different from hypocrite if Imran khan did attend the summit.

You have the wrong information, please search for the relevant threads and educate yourself.

Pakistan, Malaysia, and Turkey already have an understanding, that alliance is more for combating Western anti-Islamic propaganda, Iran and Qatar were just guests.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Did anyone actually bother to define what an 'ally' in this context means before 14 pages of discussion, debate and arguments?

I'll be honest, the content of this (last) page doesn't really make me want to go back and read all 14 pages, so might as well ask before investing all that time.

 

[Itachi]

I'm relatively new to this forum and I have seen many toxic posts from you already. Some of them are even racism.
What a hypercritical and disgusting person!

Source??

 

[cabatli_53]

Pakistanis members including appointed think tank analyst having the mentality China made product are all low quality

That's the valid point I %100 agree with ! China is known with selling low quality products in quite cheaper prices in global market otherwise, It is almost impossible for you to take a hold on global markets while your rivals are exporting battle-proven best quality products in relatively expensive prices. That is your main state policy so do not accuse anybody when someone pointed out known facts. It is no need to remind you that many of your products were failed in trials held in Pakistan. Although Pakistan bought a complete system produced by China, They mostly requested Western/Turkish subsystems cause of same quality issues. These are all not coincidence ! There is a clear-thinking lying behind this procurement steps.

 

[beijingwalker]

That's the valid point I %100 agree with ! China is known with selling low quality products in quite cheaper prices in global market otherwise, It is almost impossible for you to take a hold on global markets while your rivals are exporting battle-proven best quality products in relatively expensive prices. That is your main state policy so do not accuse anybody when someone pointed out known facts. It is no need to remind you that many of your products were failed in trials held in Pakistan. Although Pakistan bought a complete system produced by China, They mostly requested Western/Turkish subsystems cause of same quality issues. These are all not coincidence ! There is a clear-thinking lying behind this procurement steps.

What Chinese equipment failed Pakistan's army? JF-17? What Chinese weapon needs Turkish subsystem for quality reasons?

 

[Ultima Thule]

What Chinese equipment failed Pakistan's army? JF-17? What Chinese weapon needs Turkish subsystem for quality reasons?

Bro, chill down bro most of countries putting western system in Chinese or Russian jets, we are also putting Chinese SAMs (LY-80) on Turkish corvette (MAGLEM) that we are getting from Turkey

 

[beijingwalker]

Bro, chill down bro most of countries putting western system in Chinese or Russian jets, we are also putting Chinese SAMs (LY-80) on Turkish corvette (MAGLEM) that we are getting from Turkey

Maybe you want to have system that you are more comfortable with, but that may cause problems like Turkey tries to integrate western system with Russian S-400,but still, some small ajustments after buying equipments from foreign countries are very common and normal, China also refitted Russian jets.
US and Nato won't be so losing so much sleep if Chinese weapons are really that bad as he claimed, we have the second biggest defence budget and weaponry building industry in the world.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Maybe you want to have system that you are more comfortable with, but that may cause problems like Turkey tries to integrate western system with Russian S-400,but still, some small ajustments after buying equipments from foreign countries are very common and normal, China also refitted Russian jets.
US and Nato won't be so losing so much sleep if Chinese weapons are really that bad as he claimed, we have the second biggest defence budget and weaponry building industry in the world.

we knows bro, your weapons one of the best but you don't have experience as west/Russians they have decades of experience to R&D, but you're relatively new to design and develop weaponry from Scratch and your engines industries are also new comer