Are all Sayyid (Syed in South Asia) Shia's or former Shia's?

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well I didn't give a number I just acknowledged that yes what sur says is true. Why would they try to be rajputs or jatts though??

Because they are low caste hindu converts who belong to punjab or sindh..because being a rajput is a sort of a "status" in these parts...hell ive even seen a few chrisitan who claim to be rajput and looking at their facial features etc u can easily guess who they are... also when u ask them which sub clan of rajputs they belong to the simple answer is "my grandfather knew" ... etc bs..

 

[al-Hasani]

Anyway can somebody explain to me where the caste system comes from? Do the remains of this culture/tradition exist in Pakistan despite it being 97% Muslim today? I hear complains about certain landlord classes etc. that use lesser fortunate people/classes as semi-slaves?

Pakistan was majority Hindu before Islam (am I right?) but it seems that certain "traditions" have sticked.

Please elaborate.

In the Arab world between Arabs there was no lower/worse class in terms of tribes. I find it very strange that millions of Indians who happen to be born into low castes are condemned to cleaning toilets and marrying likewise people.

And then the Hindus here meddle in Arab matters and condemn us for taking pride in our ancestry, tribes, history, etc. while all this is harmless.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

We love you too our Marri brother !

dude i aint homo... better try Pak-one..

 

[Icewolf]

Anyway can somebody explain to me where the caste system comes from? Do the remains of this culture/tradition exist in Pakistan despite it being 97% Muslim today? I hear complains about certain landlord classes etc. that use lesser fortunate people/classes as semi-slaves?

Pakistan was majority Hindu before Islam (am I right?) but it seems that certain "traditions" have sticked.

Please elaborate.

Pakistan does have caste system but its only in the Hindu dominated areas of South Punjab and Sindh...
Caste for Pakistani Muslims now is just a surname, although I would be stupid to say it totally doesnt exist between us either...

 

[KingMamba]

Anyway can somebody explain to me where the caste system comes from? Do the remains of this culture/tradition exist in Pakistan despite it being 97% Muslim today? I hear complains about certain landlord classes etc. that use lesser fortunate people/classes as semi-slaves?

Pakistan was majority Hindu before Islam (am I right?) but it seems that certain "traditions" have sticked.

Please elaborate.

In the Arab world between Arabs there was no lower/worse class in terms of tribes. I find it very strange that millions of Indians who happen to be born into low castes are condemned to cleaning toilets and marrying likewise people.

And then the Hindus here meddle in Arab matters and condemn us for taking pride in our ancestry, tribes, history, etc. while all this is harmless.

Caste system comes from hindu jahliya. Unfortunately the cultural influence was carried over despite dropping the religion by many and the fact that Pakistan is still a feudal society exasperates things.

However depending on the region of Pakistan the classes are different. In Punjab Syeds are one of the highest classes along with the land holder known as chaudry. I do not know much about the rest perhaps @Armstrong could elaborate.

Pakistan does have caste system but its only in the Hindu dominated areas of South Punjab and Sindh...
Caste for Pakistani Muslims now is just a surname, although I would be stupid to say it totally doesnt exist between us either...

What about marasi and stuff like that? Occupational caste.

 

[al-Hasani]

Pakistan does have caste system but its only in the Hindu dominated areas of South Punjab and Sindh...
Caste for Pakistani Muslims now is just a surname, although I would be stupid to say it totally doesnt exist between us either...

I never said that castes exists in Pakistan. I just said that I have heard many Pakistanis complain about certain landlord families/tribes etc. who since antiquity nearly have enjoyed certain privileges while at the same time kept less fortunate people/families/tribes in a state of semi-slavery.

Hence I asked whether this is a remain of the Hindu past of Pakistan.

I know that castes itself is a Hindu phenomenon and mostly limited to India.

I was just wondering where all this came from.

 

[Armstrong]

dude i aint homo... better try Pak-one..

How can you say No to these lips ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Anyway can somebody explain to me where the caste system comes from? Do the remains of this culture/tradition exist in Pakistan despite it being 97% Muslim today? I hear complains about certain landlord classes etc. that use lesser fortunate people/classes as semi-slaves?


Pakistan was majority Hindu before Islam (am I right?) but it seems that certain "traditions" have sticked.

Please elaborate.

Il be honest... only punjab n sindh were hindu/budhist (many tribes are also persian,turkic,syeds etc) ... rest of our provinces were iranic... and no we dnt have "semi slaves" ... or untouchables.. but yes lower classes/castes/clans are looked down upon by land lord/warrior classes ... and many prefer to marry into their own tribes etc... but there is no discrimination like india.. they are frnds with eachother,eat tgther etc etc...

In the Arab world between Arabs there was no lower/worse class in terms of tribes. I find it very strange that millions of Indians who happen to be born into low castes are condemned to cleaning toilets and marrying likewise people.

Nothing like tht happens in our country.

And then the Hindus here meddle in Arab matters and condemn us for taking pride in our ancestry, tribes, history, etc. while all this is harmless.

In india its the opposite if u are from a low caste/untouchable u can killed ... even if u feed some high caste person dog.

How can you say No to these lips ?

is tht you with ur boy frnd...

 

[Icewolf]

I never said that castes exists in Pakistan. I just said that I have heard many Pakistanis complain about certain landlord families/tribes etc. who since antiquity nearly have enjoyed certain privileges while at the same time kept less fortunate people/families/tribes in a state of semi-slavery.

Hence I asked whether this is a remain of the Hindu past of Pakistan.

I know that castes itself is a Hindu phenomenon and mostly limited to India.

I was just wondering where all this came from.

Thats just how feudal system works.
Make people feel inferior and then make them feel like their land isnt theirs.

Im sure feudal system is in middle east too.

 

[Alshawi1234]

Who is Imam Ali Reza ?



Oh please you're not a Syed either !

I went to your ancestral village & on the graves of your Great-Great-Great-Grandfather it was written 'Faking it since 1683...ja kar lei jo karna haii' !

Imam Ali (Al Reza) the son of Musa son of Jaafar Son Mohammed Son Of Ali Son of Hussien son of Ali son of Abu Talib.

Ali Ibn Abi Talib is the first Shia Imam and the husband of Fatima, the daughter of prophet Mohammed. It is through Imam Ali where all the prophets descendants come from.

Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Riza was called in by Al-Maamun who got in power after killing his brother ( Al Amin). Al Mamun (The son of Harun Al rashid) called Ali Ibn Musa Al Riza ( The 8th Shia Imam) to Iran (After making Mashhad the capital of the Abbasid dynasty). al Mammun forcefully called him and promised Al Riza to be caliph after dies in order to please the Shias at the time who were against the Abbasid governement. However Imam Al Riza tried to stay away from the Government. After Imam Al Riza's popularity grew, Maamun felt threatened and decided to kill Imam Al Riza. He invited him alone and gave him poisoned juice. Although Imam al Riza Knew it was poison, there was a guard standing over him that would have killed him would he not drank the poison. He decided to drink the poison in order to make it seem like a natural death in order to prevent the Shias from more revolutions which would result on more killing and opression against them.

Note that Imam Al Rizas father, Musa Ibn Jaafar was also poisoned in prison by the order of the Abbasid Caliph Harun Al rashid after spending over 20 years prison. Harun Al Rashid had deep hate for the Shias and history records that he there were over 30 thousand Shias in prison during his rule living in the worst conditions.

 

[Imran Khan]

lolz this is where ummah stuck

 

[al-Hasani]

Thats just how feudal system works.
Make people feel inferior and then make them feel like their land isnt theirs.

Im sure feudal system is in middle east too.

Feudal system existed in the Arab world and exists to some extent today but there was no distinction between us Arabs among each other. Some tribes were more famous, more powerful, older, more noble etc. but all were in principle equal. Only exception were the Sadah families who for obvious reasons enjoyed more respect or the families of the various Caliphs, Sahabah families etc. But they too were equal under Islam.

Slavery was limited to non-Arabs such as Black Africans, Berbers, Iranians, Turks, Europeans (Slavic people especially in the early ages) and whoever people could get.

I was just surprised that there was such big differences between Pakistanis of the same ethnic group.

It would be unthinkable for me as a Makkawi Hashimite to have - lets say an Najdi Tamimi individual as some kind of servant if I lived 200-300 years ago, LOL. That's what I find interesting/strange. Or any other Arab for that matter.

 

[KingMamba]

I never said that castes exists in Pakistan. I just said that I have heard many Pakistanis complain about certain landlord families/tribes etc. who since antiquity nearly have enjoyed certain privileges while at the same time kept less fortunate people/families/tribes in a state of semi-slavery.

Hence I asked whether this is a remain of the Hindu past of Pakistan.

I know that castes itself is a Hindu phenomenon and mostly limited to India.

I was just wondering where all this came from.

They are the main problem in Pakistan and are also the real power brokers. No politician can win an election in Pakistan if he does not have their backing. True story.

 

[Alshawi1234]

They are the main problem in Pakistan and are also the real power brokers. No politician can win an election in Pakistan if he does not have their backing. True story.

That the way it is everywhere, the USA being the biggest example, have you heard of "Lobbying". The entire "Democratic system" is monopolized by the rich, the oil companies, arms, bankers....

 

[KingMamba]

That the way it is everywhere, the USA being the biggest example, have you heard of "Lobbying". The entire "Democratic system" is monopolized by the rich, the oil companies, arms, bankers....

True but at least in the US there is a chance for social mobility. In feudal societies unless you are born into privilege you are screwed. The exception being if you can escape to the city where there is some sort of industrial presence and you build yourself up.