Arab pressure working against Hindu radicals?

[masterchief_mirza]

I am really disappointed at this small-minded response by members.

Many of us who counted ourselves as among the most religion-neutral, and secular, were disappointed by the bad judgement and the irresponsibility of the TJ leadership, while strongly urging all who would listen that this was an internal preaching and religious purification movement, and nothing to do with the broader community.

I read this news on Outlook, and was delighted and spread the news among other friends and like-minded people, with great delight that the generosity of the ordinary members was so clearly on display.

Outlook is far from right-wing; we who were encouraged by the action are far from right-wing. None of us has anything to fear from Arab opinion. Rajat Sharma is right-wing. He and his associates and their like-minded individuals have everything to fear from Arab opinion, if ever it takes any concrete shape.

If you infer from his reaction that all reactions are from the same cookie-cutter, you are shaming yourselves.

Liberal and secular Indian opinion will continue to praise this generosity, no matter what narrow-minded and hostile reactions - motivated and self-serving reactions - come out.

Of course the other way of analysing the same sequence of events is that the Indian state apparatus only responds to reasonable and logical demands when coupled with realistic threat of negative consequence, rather than responding to any reasoned or logical debate alone. This is more childish, basic and Pavlovian than anything I've ever seen on PDF.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course the other way of analysing the same sequence of events is that the Indian state apparatus only responds to reasonable and logical demands when coupled with realistic threat of negative consequence, rather than responding to any reasoned or logical debate alone. This is more childish, basic and Pavlovian than anything I've ever seen on PDF.

You contradict yourself, and your naked bias and hatred of an entire community is evident in your post.

Conflating Hindu radicals and the Indian state apparatus is a shallow attempt at justifying your expression of hatred of the entire community based on repeated incidents of hateful behaviour by Hindu radicals. Nowhere has any government, or any influential individual from the Arab states supported, mentioned, alleged or hinted, that it is the state apparatus that is responsible for the bad behaviour.

Just by shifting the goalposts and pretending that it is the mechanical reaction of the state apparatus that you were criticising all along is a very weak diversionary tactic. You started by criticising, quite rightly, the bad elements in the Hindu community, and then built insupportable connections between that criticised behaviour and the entire community, and now, on being confronted, are sidestepping and trying to draw an untenable link between the actions of a fringe element and the entire state, trying to convince anyone who will listen that this is what was intended all along.

Shame on you for your hate-filled attitude, and shame on you for your weak defence of the indefensible. Would you couple the bad behaviour of the National Front with the responses of the British Government? What leads you to believe that what is ridiculous behaviour in the UK suddenly becomes sensible in India?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

You contradict yourself, and your naked bias and hatred of an entire community is evident in your post.

Conflating Hindu radicals and the Indian state apparatus is a shallow attempt at justifying your expression of hatred of the entire community based on repeated incidents of hateful behaviour by Hindu radicals. Nowhere has any government, or any influential individual from the Arab states supported, mentioned, alleged or hinted, that it is the state apparatus that is responsible for the bad behaviour.

Just by shifting the goalposts and pretending that it is the mechanical reaction of the state apparatus that you were criticising all along is a very weak diversionary tactic. You started by criticising, quite rightly, the bad elements in the Hindu community, and then built insupportable connections between that criticised behaviour and the entire community, and now, on being confronted, are sidestepping and trying to draw an untenable link between the actions of a fringe element and the entire state, trying to convince anyone who will listen that this is what was intended all along.

Shame on you for your hate-filled attitude, and shame on you for your weak defence of the indefensible. Would you couple the bad behaviour of the National Front with the responses of the British Government? What leads you to believe that what is ridiculous behaviour in the UK suddenly becomes sensible in India?

The point you yourself are alluding to is that the distinction between the fascism of hindutva individuals, groups and movements is no longer distinguishable from the machinations of the nation state of India. The same thing happened 80 years ago in Germany under the Nazis. Clearly, not all Indian citizens and not all adherents of hinduism in India fall within these parameters. If you choose to define these "goalposts" differently, that's your subjectivity coming into play. If you interpret my original comment differently, I suggest you simply read it again.

I ridiculed the nation state of Hindustan for fraudulent highlighting of the TJ plasma donation on multiple levels. Firstly, they are not deserving of highlighting in the first place when countless non-Muslim gatherings took place during lockdown that also placed India at risk - other threads detail this at length. Secondly, given that it is beyond reasonable doubt that all TJ adherents shouldn't be tarred with this "corona jihadists" brush to begin with, it is further totally vindictive and adding insult to injury by regarding this recent plasma donation as "redemption" for folks who were never guilty of anything to begin with. They have no reason to be sorry in a nation that ignores Hindu transgressions but charges and villifies Muslim transgressions wholly.

On top of that, for Twitterati and other arms of Indian media (whom I regard as an extension of political apparatus) to turn from criticism to adoration within days of criticism from Arabs speaks volumes about the role of hard influence in defining the behaviour of these various political and media enablers. Underlying moral recalibration is not possible it would seem no matter how compelling an argument one may present, yet a morally correct outcome (of fair treatment of TJ members) is attainable through simple arm twisting.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The point you yourself are alluding to is that the distinction between the fascism of hindutva individuals, groups and movements is no longer distinguishable from the machinations of the nation state of India. The same thing happened 80 years ago in Germany under the Nazis. Clearly, not all Indian citizens and not all adherents of hinduism in India fall within these parameters. If you choose to define these "goalposts" differently, that's your subjectivity coming into play. If you interpret my original comment differently, I suggest you simply read it again.

I ridiculed the nation state of Hindustan for fraudulent highlighting of the TJ plasma donation on multiple levels. Firstly, they are not deserving of highlighting in the first place when countless non-Muslim gatherings took place during lockdown that also placed India at risk - other threads detail this at length. Secondly, given that it is beyond reasonable doubt that all TJ adherents shouldn't be tarred with this "corona jihadists" brush to begin with, it is further totally vindictive and adding insult to injury by regarding this recent plasma donation as "redemption" for folks who were never guilty of anything to begin with. They have no reason to be sorry in a nation that ignores Hindu transgressions but charges and villifies Muslim transgressions wholly.

On top of that, for Twitterati and other arms of Indian media (whom I regard as an extension of political apparatus) to turn from criticism to adoration within days of criticism from Arabs speaks volumes about the role of hard influence in defining the behaviour of these various political and media enablers. Underlying moral recalibration is not possible it would seem no matter how compelling an argument one may present, yet a morally correct outcome (of fair treatment of TJ members) is attainable through simple arm twisting.

Airbrushing away the difference between the fascism of Hindutva individuals, groups and movements and the Indian state does not help you to prove the identity of India today with the Germany of the Nazis; the Indian system is still in place, and until it is suborned, it is motivated and wishful thinking that equates the two.

Your ridiculing the nation state of Hindustan for highlighting the TJ plasma donation was based on feeble foundations. You concluded on the basis of ONE tweet that the nation state was projecting this action in a certain way, and had neither the exposure nor the willingness to listen to understand that hundreds of others opposed to the party in power - not opposed to the nation state - had projected this action in a positive way. Your identification of the praise for the TJ members as a state-sponsored initiative speaks volumes about the tendency to conclude without a second thought that the state is responsible for any and every action.

Again, you assume a mono-cultural India. It will surprise you, and probably disappoint you, but Indians do exist with opinions other than that of the ruling party or of its organs of expression.

It is better that you try to understand what is going on in India, and what can go on in India before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Rajat Sharma wasn't always a rightwinger. I used to like his TV shows way back. He had even interviewed Imran Khan so many times in his show, Aap Ki Adalat.

But the way he changed his tone after Modi usurped power has greatly disappointed me. I was unable to READ him properly. A genuine person does not change their position even when the odds are stacked against them.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Airbrushing away the difference between the fascism of Hindutva individuals, groups and movements and the Indian state does not help you to prove the identity of India today with the Germany of the Nazis; the Indian system is still in place, and until it is suborned, it is motivated and wishful thinking that equates the two.

Your ridiculing the nation state of Hindustan for highlighting the TJ plasma donation was based on feeble foundations. You concluded on the basis of ONE tweet that the nation state was projecting this action in a certain way, and had neither the exposure nor the willingness to listen to understand that hundreds of others opposed to the party in power - not opposed to the nation state - had projected this action in a positive way. Your identification of the praise for the TJ members as a state-sponsored initiative speaks volumes about the tendency to conclude without a second thought that the state is responsible for any and every action.

Again, you assume a mono-cultural India. It will surprise you, and probably disappoint you, but Indians do exist with opinions other than that of the ruling party or of its organs of expression.

It is better that you try to understand what is going on in India, and what can go on in India before jumping to conclusions.

Granted that I extrapolated a generalisation on the basis of one tweet. I hope my assumption is proved incorrect in the fullness of time. Until then, my overall opinion is based on plenty of past and present anecdotal evidence.

Just today, a new report suggested that some Hindus will decline convalescent plasma derived from Muslims. Again, it's just the one report and it may well be hearsay. I hope it turns out to be incorrect.

 

[xeuss]

Conflating Hindu radicals and the Indian state apparatus is a shallow attempt at justifying your expression of hatred of the entire community based on repeated incidents of hateful behaviour by Hindu radicals. Nowhere has any government, or any influential individual from the Arab states supported, mentioned, alleged or hinted, that it is the state apparatus that is responsible for the bad behaviour.

Curious. Are you saying that the state apparatus in not responsible for bad behavior? And that all bad in this episode is from the select few outliers?

 

[American Pakistani]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1254726353762414592

@Gandhi G in da house @GHALIB

Did you guys remembered to mark my word ? When I said after your lord dolaaan trummp, Arab Muslims will make India lick what it spitted?

 

[Hiptullha]

Shame on you for your hate-filled attitude, and shame on you for your weak defence of the indefensible. Would you couple the bad behaviour of the National Front with the responses of the British Government? What leads you to believe that what is ridiculous behaviour in the UK suddenly becomes sensible in India?

The National Front doesn't even have a seat in parliament while rapist Yogi runs UP, genocidal Modi runs India. What a stupid comparison!

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Curious. Are you saying that the state apparatus in not responsible for bad behavior? And that all bad in this episode is from the select few outliers?

He has his opinion and I respect that. He believes a system of checks and balances will ultimately pull India back from the precipice. I'm unconvinced of that based on what we've seen in recent weeks and years even. India has been heading in one overall direction, tempered only - as far as I can see - by external, hard influence. However, it might be worth giving the benefit of the doubt to genuine counter-radicals who believe their voices will push back against what we've seen. I am still sceptical though over how much time there is left for India to reverse its descent.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

@Gandhi G in da house @GHALIB

Did you guys remembered to mark my word ? When I said after your lord dolaaan trummp, Arab Muslims will make India lick what it spitted?

I don't see India doing anything like that here. You are confusing the dynamics of Pakistan with China with that of India and Arabs.

 

[xeuss]

He has his opinion and I respect that. He believes a system of checks and balances will ultimately pull India back from the precipice. I'm unconvinced of that based on what we've seen in recent weeks and years even. India has been heading in one overall direction, tempered only - as far as I can see - by external, hard influence. However, it might be worth giving the benefit of the doubt to genuine counter-radicals who believe their voices will push back against what we've seen. I am still sceptical though over how much time there is left for India to reverse its descent.

Checks and balances were poor in India to begin with, for a variety of reasons. Under this government, every institution has been compromised. The upright were transferred out or dismissed, and lackeys were installed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Granted that I extrapolated a generalisation on the basis of one tweet. I hope my assumption is proved incorrect in the fullness of time. Until then, my overall opinion is based on plenty of past and present anecdotal evidence.

Just today, a new report suggested that some Hindus will decline convalescent plasma derived from Muslims. Again, it's just the one report and it may well be hearsay. I hope it turns out to be incorrect.

There is also the one report about a swine who advised his constituents not to buy from Muslim vegetable vendors, and justified his outrageous position by protesting that it was forced on him by his constituents themselves. There are, in your words, individuals, groups and movements of the Hindutva persuasion, and in the short run, there will be not one, but a dozen cases of such toxic statements and positions. In the short run, those who hope for India to return to her former position will have to suffer.

You will see the denouement, I will not. But I still am sure that the situation will turn, and turn for the better.

Curious. Are you saying that the state apparatus in not responsible for bad behavior? And that all bad in this episode is from the select few outliers?

I am pointing out to you, seemingly against your inclination to see or to accept, that the ruling party is not the state; it has the privilege of running the state for a fixed period of time. It would help if you did not choose to dissemble, especially as you are clearly aware of the nuances.

The National Front doesn't even have a seat in parliament while rapist Yogi runs UP, genocidal Modi runs India. What a stupid comparison!

Oh, my being stupid does not absolve you of the responsibility for setting your own moral compass. Apart from being stupid, it is not my responsibility to do so. That is between you and your maker. I have pointed out a position that is bad for you; the rest is entirely up to you, and it is as you wish.

 

[xeuss]

I am pointing out to you, seemingly against your inclination to see or to accept, that the ruling party is not the state; it has the privilege of running the state for a fixed period of time. It would help if you did not choose to dissemble, especially as you are clearly aware of the nuances.

Of course. But that does not mean that state apparatus is not being used, in this present case, in furthering this "bad behavior".

When state apparatus is identifying infected persons by their religion (tableeghis, sikhs), let's call them out for their bad behavior, rather than pointing out nuances, that in 2024 the state apparatus will not be beholden to the ruling party.

 

[Hiptullha]

I am pointing out to you, seemingly against your inclination to see or to accept, that the ruling party is not the state; it has the privilege of running the state for a fixed period of time. It would help if you did not choose to dissemble, especially as you are clearly aware of the nuances.

A Muslim can't be as nuanced as you since the current party running the state for a fixed period of time is out to get them for votes and power.

I have pointed out a position that is bad for you; the rest is entirely up to you, and it is as you wish.

LOL you've been feeding Indian Muslims this talk for decades now and they walked right into multiple riots and pogroms. Don't tell me that this position is bad for me.