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Arab Iran Stand-off

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Saudi Foreign minister denied my statement........
Well, I will convince him not to do so again
o_O

More importantly, his statement made a mockery of recent trips and grandiose statements by the PM and the COAS to Riyadh and Tehran also.
 
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@Neutron
Yes you are correct Shia and Sunni can live together but Arabs and Persians have long history of hate and wars even before Islam they don't share cordial relations and it is historic fact that Persian empire destroyed by Arab Muslims.
Still today Iranians quite strongly relate themselves with Persian empire and their Persian identity and more fuel added by difference in sects.

Sometimes historical difference and future narratives based on the past are harmful for next generations is true for both the middle eastren powerhouses.

More importantly, his statement made a mockery of recent trips and grandiose statements by the PM and the COAS to Riyadh and Tehran also.

Yah ........ its not a good statement....However it takes time to convince someone to follow our foot prints.
 
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China and US, both are navigating this crisis with balance and impartial approach towards powerhouses (Saudi Arab + Iran) of Middle East. They are not COWARDS, they are IMPARTIAL. So do we.



Iran and Saudi Arab declined request of USA and China to meditate between them and accepted for Pakistan. There are some strong gravitational forces as well other than economy. Religious linkage of both with Pakistan and presence of strong shia sunni community with good coordination and cooperation with each other in military, government institutes, politics and corporate sector in Pakistan is best example for Iran and Saudi Arab to follow.
@Serpentine


Sir,

Saudis are our brothers that have stood with us thru thick and thin.

The americans are a power house---they do not need to do anything----. The americans want pakistan to be seperated from the pack to be hunted down easily---.

China is standing with pakistan---it has no tactical advantage of assisting saudia----.

It is pakistan that can benefit immensely from the saudi alliance if worked right---.

Iran has to be worked on---they don't have much of a choice in trade with china---it will have to go thru pakistan mostly.

Iran needs to be given the message to stop interfering in Yemen--. It needs to be made to stop.

The anti shia elements in pakistan need to be smashed down---and pakistani shias given the message that they are pakistanis first and not iranians.

Iran should be stopped from stirring up trouble in muslim countries---.
 
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Sir,

Saudis are our brothers that have stood with us thru thick and thin.

The americans are a power house---they do not need to do anything----. The americans want pakistan to be seperated from the pack to be hunted down easily---.

China is standing with pakistan---it has no tactical advantage of assisting saudia----.

It is pakistan that can benefit immensely from the saudi alliance if worked right---.

Iran has to be worked on---they don't have much of a choice in trade with china---it will have to go thru pakistan mostly.

Iran needs to be given the message to stop interfering in Yemen--. It needs to be made to stop.

The anti shia elements in pakistan need to be smashed down---and pakistani shias given the message that they are pakistanis first and not iranians.


Iran should be stopped from stirring up trouble in muslim countries---.

Strongly agree with your comment about domestic policy.

@MastanKhan I think you need to write an article in support of your argument.
Few Questions.

How Pakistan can get more benefits with pro Arab policy?
What are the after affects of loosing Iran, and how to counter weight ?
Do you think siding one will not lead to sectarian troubles?
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Most important point is that supporting Saudi Arab in this conflict situation can be translated as Pakistan is the part of the stand off problem between Saudi Iran conflict or Shia Sunni conflict.

To be part of the solution is more beneficial for long term diplomatic ties with both countries because Saudi Arab and Iran both are looking towards china to counterweight USA.
 
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Sir,

Saudis are our brothers that have stood with us thru thick and thin.

The americans are a power house---they do not need to do anything----. The americans want pakistan to be seperated from the pack to be hunted down easily---.

China is standing with pakistan---it has no tactical advantage of assisting saudia----.

It is pakistan that can benefit immensely from the saudi alliance if worked right---.

Iran has to be worked on---they don't have much of a choice in trade with china---it will have to go thru pakistan mostly.

Iran needs to be given the message to stop interfering in Yemen--. It needs to be made to stop.

The anti shia elements in pakistan need to be smashed down---and pakistani shias given the message that they are pakistanis first and not iranians.

Iran should be stopped from stirring up trouble in muslim countries---.

I say this with a very heavy heart, Unfortunately Pakistanis, are their own worst enemies. You don't have to go very far, just look at this forum.
 
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Strongly agree with your comment about domestic policy.

@MastanKhan I think you need to write an article in support of your argument.
Few Questions.

How Pakistan can get more benefits with pro Arab policy?
What are the after affects of loosing Iran, and how to counter weight ?
Do you think siding one will not lead to sectarian troubles?

I think @MastanKhan & @Indus Falcon have been pretty clear on the economic & military windfall, Pakistan would have benefited from. But it seems that the kids on this forum are too naive, to understand how systematically Pakistan is being isolated.

Nonetheless it would be a pleasure if Mastan Khan Sahab would address the above queries again.
 
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Strongly agree with your comment about domestic policy.

@MastanKhan I think you need to write an article in support of your argument.
Few Questions.

How Pakistan can get more benefits with pro Arab policy?
What are the after affects of loosing Iran, and how to counter weight ?
Do you think siding one will not lead to sectarian troubles?
............

Most important point is that supporting Saudi Arab in this conflict situation can be translated as Pakistan is the part of the stand off problem between Saudi Iran conflict or Shia Sunni conflict.

To be part of the solution is more beneficial for long term diplomatic ties with both countries because Saudi Arab and Iran both are looking towards china to counterweight USA.

Hi,

I have written many an article on yemen on this forum---I am sorry that you missed them.

Let me take a step back---I am not a Saudi Lover---even though I come from a wahabi family who had sent their daughters to boarding schools / colleges in the 60's.

But I recognize and understand the brotherhood between the gulf nations and pakistan---. Each and every one of these nations have stood by pakistan thru thick and thin---and some even have gone as far as in a clandestine manner helped our missile program.

There was never a moment in the history of this relationship when the check books of the gulf nations were not open for pakistan---whatever the need maybe.

The first time they really really needed pakistan---pakistan and pakistanis failed their moral obligation of being their brother's keepers.

The saudis and emiratis were lambasted for having so much money but soldiers not ready and willing to fight---and I could not understand---why the pakistans were talking about that---why it had become the main issue---actually why was it an issue at all.

The real issue is that pakistan failed to analyze the situation and failed to capitalize on a FREE RIDE. What happened last year was that the gulf nations went into a panic mode.

The issue that they were thinking of as a major back breaker was not that heavy.

Pakistan could have cordially asked Iran to step back from Yemen---stop interfering in all the muslim states---.

Secondly---it could have smahsed the radical anti shia terrorists last year to show solidarity with iran.

Pakistan is doing it now to please india---would have been better last year. The iranians would be happy---the saudis would care less because they had heat in their backyard---.

Pakistani military would gain in strength---in man power and equipment---and then come out as a true muslim national power of the region.

And one more time in the utter stupidity---the pakistanis failed to understand that they would become weaker than the iranians---. Once the iranians get to spend their money---they will get weapons---and once they are strong militarily---they will work on pakistan.

That would have been another reason for pakistan to strengthen its military.

Now coming to the other side---neither the saudis nor the emiratis / Qataris etc---understood the situation in pakistan very well. They did not understand the discontent of the poor working class pakistanis.

The other thing they did not understand was---that there are always basics to do something---there are reasons that there are fundamentals that are taught at every level in our living and working lives---they teach us in how to approach an issue under a certain given condition.

They also tell us how to make a sales pitch for your cause---. I would say that I have lost a 50-60 car deals a year for not following the basics---which means that it costs me an upwards of 25000-35000 dollars loss of income per year.

The approach should have started with addressing the public---showed them the features and benefits---. Your muslim brother has a problem---even though it is well equipped---it is not preparted to fight---join your brother and here is what we will do for you today and tomorrow---.

Today you will get the funds---and from tomorrow---we have have jobs laid out for you specially---starting at 250000 jobs in the gulf nations that would increase to a million jobs in 5 years time period---.

The world is changing at a much fatsre pace---and we---the like minded need to join hands together---with resource and manpower for our protection and your better future for you---your families---your children to come.

We would also be willing to give permanent residnecy to pakistani workers and military personal and their immediate families.

We would also open up job training centers in pakistan managed by us---we will also setup education institutions and hospitals under our care and auspices to better serve you so that united we can face this problem in a professional and tactical manner.

@Khafee ---it is car sales 101---basics fundamentals---sell yourself---sell the facilities---sell the after sales service---sell the dealership---sell the product---create excitement---sell the features and sell the benefits---. Take the customer on a ride in their imagination---sell the imagination first---the sales will follow---.

People need to feel and tatse what they are getting into---and what the rewards are going to be---. They hate to be pushed into a deal----if their mind is not set on it---if theyu don't believe in you---they won't del with you.

Over the 25 + years I have been in nbusiness---there have been so many times that we have advertised vehicles in the news paper and the advertising company put the wrong price in the ad---eg---instead of putting 24995---they put 14995 dollars as price---a 10000 dollars net loser---or instead of putting 29995---they put in 19995 dollars in the ad---and not a single customer showed up for that hot product---you know why---they did not believe it was a good deal..

That is why---the deal fell thru last year---the public was not behind the deal---and the generals of pak military---weak knees.
 
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Arab Iran Stand-off

1. Introduction Iran and Saudi Arabia are neither natural allies nor natural enemies, but natural rivals who have long competed as major oil producers and self-proclaimed defenders of Shia and Sunni Islam, respectively.They crafted their ideologies in their own country and are promoting to neighbouring countries as well just to increase their influence. What they have is not only a clash of narratives, they have basically a huge divide, a war by proxy, a cold war taking place between Saudi Arabia and Iran.It's a war about geopolitics. It's about power. It's about influence. Relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran -- two Middle Eastern powerhouses -- quickly deteriorated following Riyadh's execution of Shiite cleric Nimr al-Nimr. Hours after the death sentence was carried out, protesters in Shiite-majority Iran attacked the Saudi Embassy in Tehran. The Saudis cut diplomatic relations with Iran over the attack on its embassy.Saudi Arabia suspended all flights to and from Iran. It also accused Iranian authorities of failing in their duties to protect the Saudi embassy.Jaberi Ansari, a spokesman for Iran's foreign ministry, said his country is committed to protecting diplomatic missions and reiterated that no Saudi diplomats were harmed -- or even present -- during the attack.

He accused Saudi Arabia of "looking for some excuses to pursue its own unwise policies to further tension in the region."

Meanwhile, some nations picked sides while others called for calm.​
Russia and China, two of the biggest geopolitical players in the hemisphere, released statements calling for restraint between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

"Moscow is concerned about escalation of the situation in the Middle East with participation of the key regional players," the Russian foreign ministry said. Russia called on the Saudis and Iranians to "show restraint and to avoid any steps that might escalate the situation and raise tensions including inter religious ones."

China's foreign ministry said it is paying close attention to the events and hopes "all parties can remain calm and restrained, use dialogue and negotiations to properly resolve differences, and work together to safeguard the region's peace and stability."​
Sharif, who was accompanied by Pakistani army chief Raheel Sharif and several other ministers, held talks about efforts to end rifts between Iran and the Kingdom.
According to the Pakistan foreign office, the purpose of the visit was to ease tensions between the two Organization of Islamic Cooperation countries, with an emphasis on resuming dialogue.
The foreign office issued a statement on Sunday stating that Pakistan was deeply concerned at the standoff between the two countries. “The prime minister has called for a resolution of differences through peaceful means, in the larger interest of Muslim unity particularly during these challenging times,” the statement said.
Saudi Arabia and Iran back opposite sides in the wars in Syria and Yemen

2. US Neutral Posture
  • The Obama administration strove to appear neutral amid open confrontation between its ally Saudi Arabia and its frequent nemesis Iran, a strategy that risked anger from Riyadh as the U.S. tries to navigate the growing crisis in the region.The White House contacted Iranian and Saudi officials in an effort to de-escalate tensions.​
  • Although the U.S. is a longtime ally of Saudi Arabia, the Obama administration wants to preserve the international nuclear deal struck with Iran this year, which the White House sees as a top foreign policy achievement. But its posture of neutrality quickly could become untenable, if Saudi Arabia and Iran escalate their standoff beyond the recent fracture of diplomatic and economic ties.​
  • "We think the best solutions are ones that come from the region," State Department spokesman John Kirby said " Real long-term solutions won't be legislated from Washington D.C."​
  • The Obama administration voiced condemnation for actions that have taken place on both sides: mass executions such as those in Saudi Arabia and attacks on Saudi diplomatic facilities in Iran.​
  • U.S. hopes Saudi Arabia, Iran and other powers that have severed ties will resume dialogue, so all can focus on confronting Islamic State as well as the Syria process​
3. China

Amid the tensions, China sent Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Ming to Saudi Arabia and Iran for an exchange of views on the regional situation.China enjoys solid ties with both Iran and Saudi Arabia, a difficult feat given the two states’ antipathy toward each other. Both, for example, signed on to join the Chinese-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank as founding members.
Saudi Arabia and Iran both see increased ties with China as a useful counterweight to relations with the United States, though for very different reasons – Riyadh wants to avoid over-reliance on its major ally, while Tehran needs to find diplomatic support elsewhere given the enmity between it and Washington.

Saudi Arabia has traditionally been China’s top source for oil imports, although it was briefly replaced by Russia for part of 2015. While energy underpins the China-Saudi relationship, Beijing wants to expand cooperation to other fields as well, including having Saudi Arabia join China’s Silk Road Economic Belt and Maritime Silk Road.Meanwhile, China has always been friendly to Iran, though Beijing acquiesced in UN sanctions designed to cripple Iran’s nuclear program.
With the successful negotiations of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action to end Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons and roll back sanctions, China foresees as bright future for the relationship. China has also bumped up the amount of oil it imports from Iran, foreseeing the end of sanctions. Before 2012, Iran was China’s third-largest source of crude; when sanctions took effect, it dropped to sixth place.​
  • By coincidence, Beijing is currently hosting President Khaled Khoja (also known as Alptekin Hocaoglu) of the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, fulfilling a promise to host both the Syrian government and opposition for talks as part of China’s commitment to moving forward the peace process. Syrian Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem was in Beijing late December.Khoja and Moallem both met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. The outreach to Khoja connects back to Zhang’s trip to the Middle East, where he will doubtless try to convince Saudi Arabia and Iran to continue with the current blueprint for Syrian peace talks.
4. Global Impact
  • Saudi officials fear the release of the $100 billion in frozen oil revenues will allow Iran even more aggressively to support its proxies in the region, including the Assad regime in Syria and the Houthi militia in Yemen.​
  • Implementation of the nuclear agreement will raise even greater fears among the Sunni Arab states that the U.S. is seeking to align with Iran.​
  • Saudi-Iran relationship will derail fragile attempts to resolve the Syrian civil war. Iran and Saudi Arabia have often refused to even sit down together for talks on Syria; it seems unlikely they will be willing to do so again, at least in the short term.​
  • Saudi-Iran rift is the result of two different narratives promoted by these two states.​
  • Common threat to existence of both countries from any stronger enemy can result into de-escalation, which is unlikely in near future
5. Conclusion Both Iran and Saudi Arabia are important and influential countries in the Middle East. Pakistan would like to develop friendly and cooperative relations with the two. What that means in practice is that Pakistan cannot be seen to take sides in the current dispute, and indeed the Foreign Ministry has been careful not to address the cause of the tensions (lest it be seen to lay blame on either party), instead calling for both sides to show restraint.​










News Sources
White House Aims For Neutral Posture in Saudi-Iran Rift - NASDAQ.com
Pakistan launches efforts to end Riyadh-Tehran standoff | Arab News




Excellent write up!!:tup::tup:
 
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China and US, both are navigating this crisis with balance and impartial approach towards powerhouses (Saudi Arab + Iran) of Middle East. They are not COWARDS, they are IMPARTIAL. So do we.
[/USER]

Sir,

China and soviet impartial---BFD---which means---big f deal----.

Iran is a back stabber by nature and habbit---. I will not trust n iranian over an arab---.

All the problems in palestine since the late 90's are the creation of iran---.

Just look at the pictures of palestine pre dating year 2000---it was prospering---and then the iranian backed shias got into power and then we see destruction of palestine.

Iran back stabbed pakistan on the nuclear issue---stuck the knife deep and hard. We were lucky that we were an integral part of the WOT at that time---otherwise---we would be history---.

Everywhere the iranians go---they bring death and destruction to that region---.

They see a weak nigeria---they have started their movement into nigeria as well.

Iran is not a pakistan ally---but rather an india ally.

In the 1971 war---the iranian forces were ready at the border---that of indian army took over pakistan---they would jump in and conquer as much region as they can.

Pakistan supplied iran with train loads of ammunition during the iran / iraq war---and what we get in return---a shia revolution in pakistan funded by iran.

Walking with Iran---brings you death and destruction---walking with the gulf states---brings you wealth and prosperity---.

Russia is not imparttial---it is waiting to sell weapons to iran---china is not impartial---it is waiting to sell weapons and other goods to iran---.

These two nations want to cash in on trade benefits---there is no impartiality.
 
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Today you will get the funds---and from tomorrow---we have have jobs laid out for you specially---starting at 250000 jobs in the gulf nations that would increase to a million jobs in 5 years time period---.

The world is changing at a much fatsre pace---and we---the like minded need to join hands together---with resource and manpower for our protection and your better future for you---your families---your children to come.

We would also be willing to give permanent residnecy to pakistani workers and military personal and their immediate families.

We would also open up job training centers in pakistan managed by us---we will also setup education institutions and hospitals under our care and auspices to better serve you so that united we can face this problem in a professional and tactical manner.


Haven't they understood and realized this?
 
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Haven't they understood and realized this?

Hi,

You know it is not as simple as that---. Both the sides have issues---and pakistan has a lot more at stake.

Atypical pakistani mentality is---' leave us alone '---' don't bother us '----well the world does not work that way.

If you don't go out to meet them on their turf and take them on----they will ultimately end up at your turf to take you on---.
 
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