Arab descriptions of early medieval South Asia

[Thirdfront]

1 has been opened by fauji guy....kindly stop quoting me and mentioning me here and this is a msg to others to question me in the other thread!

THANK YOU!



What will convince me is SOLID proof not HYPOTHETICAL proof...Where ever they say we HYPOTHESIZE this MAY have happen, should just be flushed!

And what would that be? Solid is very subjective. What they have got now is more than solid to me, especially with the lack of any other credible (even remotely) competing/contradicting evidence......
You can keep on crying that you need solid evidence even after god himself appears and tell you that evolution is true as you have made up your mind to deny it any way (I am being sarcastic here..)

 

[Dubious]

I am sorry, you are far from educated. I mean, I have no idea how you got into phd (if it is true, again). You don't seem to have any idea what ToE is.. let me school you... evolution doesn't tell that we evolved from monkeys or apes. Monkeys are a class of animal, under mammals. apes are class of animals under monkeys. SO, humans are monkeys and apes just as we are mammals. What ToE says is, the great apes (orangutan, gorilla, chimp bonobo and humans) shared a common ancestor.

OMG...you still stuck on that? My question is ok lets agree to this...

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED....

ok apes and us have a common ancestor ...

Now comes my question, brace your brain!

How did 1 child remain an ape while the other became a human?!

Put forward the steps to becoming a human from " a common ancestor"

Even I can TAKE WORDS FROM A TEXT BOOK AND KEEP repeating it until I am convinced...But a real scientist is 1 who can PUT THEM IN THEIR OWN WORDS and help the other digest....!

You just keep ranting COMMON ANCESTOR...My question is what happened after that...How did they diverge?!

 

[Ayush]

OMG...you still stuck on that? My question is ok lets agree to this...

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED....

ok apes and us have a common ancestor ...

Now comes my question, brace your brain!

How did 1 child remain an ape while the other became a human?!

Put forward the steps to becoming a human from " a common ancestor"

Even I can TAKE WORDS FROM A TEXT BOOK AND KEEP repeating it until I am convinced...But a real scientist is 1 who can PUT THEM IN THEIR OWN WORDS and help the other digest....!

You just keep ranting COMMON ANCESTOR...My question is what happened after that...How did they diverge?!

arey,suppose we have a group of apes called x.


now a particular group gets seperated somehow,undergoes different climate,struggles etc.. and let's say ultimately evolved into modern humans

whereas the rest became something else..may be got divided into other groups and became the modern monkeys,chimpanzees etc..

 

[Thirdfront]

OMG...you still stuck on that? My question is ok lets agree to this...

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED....

ok apes and us have a common ancestor ...

Now comes my question, brace your brain!

How did 1 child remain an ape while the other became a human?!

Put forward the steps to becoming a human from " a common ancestor"

Even I can TAKE WORDS FROM A TEXT BOOK AND KEEP repeating it until I am convinced...But a real scientist is 1 who can PUT THEM IN THEIR OWN WORDS and help the other digest....!

You just keep ranting COMMON ANCESTOR...My question is what happened after that...How did they diverge?!

Please, don't let you guide see these posts..... who on earth said mother gave birth 2 species??? as per evolution, that is impossible. You need to go back to school (not in pakistan or US, but EU is fine). Since you don't seem to know anything let me dumb it down to you..
Whenever a off-spring is born, it will slightly differ from parents in genetic composition, due to various reasons( mutation).... now, in the many off-spring that are born will be subjected to natural forces. Some mutations help the offspring to survive by better coping (less precipitation in desert etc). individual with that kind of mutation survive and reproduce, other die. slowly, these favourable mutations combine and over the (millions of) years give rise to totally new group. Now, if a big group gets divided (by geographical barriers, distant migration in search of food), they will be subject to different natural forces hence develop different mutations over time. In time, instead of a single group we have 2 new groups with totally different characteristics. 2 new species are called to be evolved, diverged from common ancestor. It doesn't mean one fine day a couple in the original group gave birth 2 totally different individuals.....
Now, how did we diverge from our common ancestor, when are the things we are not 100% sure of. If one plats seed, it will germinate, become a plant and a tree. But nobody can say exactly on what date and time a plant became a tree......

Hope I have dumbed it down enough for your education level....

 

[Dubious]

Please, don't let you guide see these posts..... who on earth said mother gave birth 2 species??? as per evolution, that is impossible. You need to go back to school (not in pakistan or US, but EU is fine). Since you don't seem to know anything let me dumb it down to you..
Whenever a off-spring is born, it will slightly differ from parents in genetic composition, due to various reasons( mutation).... now, in the many off-spring that are born will be subjected to natural forces. Some mutations help the offspring to survive by better coping (less precipitation in desert etc). individual with that kind of mutation survive and reproduce, other die. slowly, these favourable mutations combine and over the (millions of) years give rise to totally new group. Now, if a big group gets divided (by geographical barriers, distant migration in search of food), they will be subject to different natural forces hence develop different mutations over time. In time, instead of a single group we have 2 new groups with totally different characteristics. 2 new species are called to be evolved, diverged from common ancestor. It doesn't mean one fine day a couple in the original group gave birth 2 totally different individuals.....
Now, how did we diverge from our common ancestor, when are the things we are not 100% sure of. If one plats seed, it will germinate, become a plant and a tree. But nobody can say exactly on what date and time a plant became a tree......

Hope I have dumbed it down enough for your education level....

Bravo! You just did a brilliant introduction to speciation! Hopefully it was not copied from online....

1 question though, why wasnt any OTHER group in such environment or what happened to others who had similar "mutations"

Now let me dumb MODERN SCIENTIFIC discoveries for this concept!

1st, such mutations are rarely in germline

2ndly, RARELY evade the DNA repair mechanisms...

3rdly, such cases leading to a successful selection in natural selection

4thly, having non sterile offspring

5thly, why didnt any other ape turn into something else?

plant is not the same as humans....Man you people know nothing about DNA

 

[Thirdfront]

Bravo! You just did a brilliant introduction to speciation! Hopefully it was not copied from online....

1 question though, why wasnt any OTHER group in such environment or what happened to others who had similar "mutations"

Now let me dumb MODERN SCIENTIFIC discoveries for this concept!

1st, such mutations are rarely in germline

2ndly, RARELY evade the DNA repair mechanisms...

3rdly, such cases leading to a successful selection in natural selection

4thly, having non sterile offspring

5thly, why didnt any other ape turn into something else?

plant is not the same as humans....Man you people know nothing about DNA

The mutations may be different giving different advantage, like in the desert case, one may perspire less the other may retain water for longer time. Also, there were "other" humans as well, like Neanderthals (whom we killed by the way) and may other hominids. These species are not so special. We humans may be ruling earth for past 10,000 Years but remember, dinos ruled earth for millions of years. Evolution, like gravity, will get us.

Now let me explain you the realities of your not so modern inventions:

1, 2 and 3 - Ah, the "rarely" question. How rarely? .00001%? then compare it to individuals born per second, you come to know the answer. Thats right, Law of large numbers. Already they have mapped mutations in humans where whole family has higher bone density (no broken bones), resistance to malaria, AIDS etc clearly linked to these mutations.Also, all mutations are not random. Genetic recombination that takes place with each birth (that is why children differ from parents and even twins are not exactly same) can lead to genetic drift in the population. Also, drug resistance bugs, nylonase producing bacteria, all due to mutation.
4. Having non sterile offspring is either in 2 species just diverging (lion, tiger and horse, donkey etc) or itself will have evolutionary background (Bees). It in no way discredits evolution. Since evolution is an aimless and blind process, it has it's dead ends.
5. Other apes turned into other things already like gorilla, chip, Neanderthal etc. It is not like evolution stopped with apes.

I know humans are not trees, my point is you can't say on what date and time our species became "human". It is a slow process where in if you look at 2 individuals 100000 years apart, they are completely different but no 2 successive generation has any considerable change.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

I'd rather believe that we came from chimps than being created from muds or clay, or being the offspring of the white couple adam and eve, with the magical snake and blah blah blah

 

[Enemy]

I'd rather believe that we came from chimps than being created from muds or clay, or being the offspring of the white couple adam and eve, with the magical snake and blah blah blah

I explained in short how you became what you are today in this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/techno...-chinese-archicebus-fossil-4.html#post4381617

You can read my other posts in the same thread.

If you are Caucasoid, then you are the possible inbred descendant of Cro Magnons only and if you are something other than Caucasoid, then you are the result of intrebreeding between Cro Magnons and other archaic hominids. Simple!

 

[Bang Galore]

and I am asking for 1...which no one has provided ONLY CLAIMS!

I am asking what happened? How did they diverge?! Did some mother ape give birth to 1 ape-like ancestor of yours and 1 normal ape?! or did she have 2 apes and 1 fell from the tree and became your ancestor? What happened?!

You should have read my earlier reply carefully. I'm uninclined to go further down this road with you.

Largest as compared to what? Important for whom? Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism is far from being LARGE OR IMPORTANT...Infact on PDF alone, MAJORITY of Indians claim to be atheist!

I said "some of the world's largest", can't explain it better than that. Only the absolutely cussed will argue that around 2 billion people don't matter. As far as you point on atheism goes, ypou really should bother to read before commenting, I was making the point that atheism & the religions mentioned are not incompatible. Buddhism is atheistic & Hinduism is okay with that too.

NO BODY CAN EXPLAIN IT? then what do you follow?! That is like a cult or something! I brought it in thinking maybe you understand based on what you know....But like you said NOBODY CAN explain it meaning even you dont know what Hinduism is....

Defining Hinduism to someone following an Abraham religion is a thankless task. Your idea of religion as exposed to you makes it impossible to accept an alternate plane of thought. Hinduism is difficult to explain because it allows for different planes of thought. For people following one plane to explain another is not easy. I know what Hinduism is, explaining to you is the point of contention. You have shown absolutely no ability to handle thoughts other than what you have been fed with. Explaining Hinduism would be a bridge too far.

I have only heard this answer from those who are incapable of providing an answer..What happened to questioning EVERYTHING? Suddenly EVERYONE is convinced in EVOLUTION yet not 1 example or explanation of HOW THIS HAPPENED can be presented?!
Well, apparently it is a prick when questioned about a theory which you believe as truth!

Questioning everything is not the same as disbelieving everything. It simply means that if a question arises on a particular subject, one is not predisposed to disbelieve. Your understanding of evolution needs more work than I'm prepared to put in.


My last post on this thread. Thank you for your time.

 

[Dubious]

You should have read my earlier reply carefully. I'm uninclined to go further down this road with you.

Maybe if you spend time reading other people's post I wouldnt need to repeat everything for each Indian who quotes me just because he was thought Darwin as the truth.......

I said "some of the world's largest", can't explain it better than that. Only the absolutely cussed will argue that around 2 billion people don't matter. As far as you point on atheism goes, ypou really should bother to read before commenting, I was making the point that atheism & the religions mentioned are not incompatible. Buddhism is atheistic & Hinduism is okay with that too.

Jainism is a religious minority in India, with 4.2 million followers, and there are small but notable immigrant communities in Belgium, Canada, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, and the United States.[2] Jains have the highest degree of literacy for a religious community in India

Not sure how it is thought of as a part of "some of the world's largest" when it is a minority even in INDIA which is 1 OF THE COUNTRIES of the world....

While Buddhism remains most popular within Asia, both branches are now found throughout the world. Estimates of Buddhists worldwide vary significantly depending on the way Buddhist adherence is defined. Conservative estimates are between 350 and 750 million.Higher estimates are between 1.2 and 1.7 billion

Also not sure how this is under "some of the world's largest"

...maybe you are not aware that the world consists of more people than Indians and more countries than India...

Hinduism, with about one billion followers

Yea not to forget half of which are proclaiming to be atheist

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities

You can not say there is so and so GOD ,worship to him and then say I am atheist...So kindly go look for another word to describe yourselves! Maybe Agnostic! But definitely not atheist + some religion...Its an oxymoron!

Defining Hinduism to someone following an Abraham religion is a thankless task.

Defining it to a Hindu himself is a task!

Your idea of religion as exposed to you makes it impossible to accept an alternate plane of thought.

Why? Coz we question it? Well you question Islam, we try to reply but when you are put under the same circumstances, it becomes a task?!

Hinduism is difficult to explain because it allows for different planes of thought.

then it is not a religion if you can adulterate it at will...Religion is a teaching from a deity...If everyone plays god, what is the use then?

For people following one plane to explain another is not easy. I know what Hinduism is, explaining to you is the point of contention.

If someone claims they know something, they should be able to explain it or then dont claim you know it!

You have shown absolutely no ability to handle thoughts other than what you have been fed with.

Why? Because I question your believe? Oh that is soo bad of me...But you can hurl your limited knowledge on Islam without asking someone who knows about it! But GOD FORBID if I question you who claims to know about Hinduism? Yea, not your way of playing, I should be hurling my thoughts, thats the way you play it, right?

Explaining Hinduism would be a bridge too far.

Or just lazy to bother....

Questioning everything is not the same as disbelieving everything. It simply means that if a question arises on a particular subject, one is not predisposed to disbelieve. Your understanding of evolution needs more work than I'm prepared to put in.

and the laziness came into view, then STOP QUOTING ME!! Duhhh!

My last post on this thread. Thank you for your time.

Sorry cant say the same for you wasting my time reading your useless and uninformative post! Kindly delete it as it is a waste of bandwidth!

OH 1 more thing, Like you are sooo STUCK on 1 point abt EVOLUTION....WHICH is a theory...You think everyone is as incapable as you!

 

[Thirdfront]

You can not say there is so and so GOD ,worship to him and then say I am atheist...So kindly go look for another word to describe yourselves! Maybe Agnostic! But definitely not atheist + some religion...Its an oxymoron!

OH 1 more thing, Like you are sooo STUCK on 1 point abt EVOLUTION....WHICH is a theory...You think everyone is as incapable as you!

Showing off the full spectrum of ignorance again... being in a religion doesn't make one theist if the religion itself allows non-theistic belief. Sun god and ancestor worship are example. Hinduism has 2 broad division, theists and atheist. So, one can be a hindu and an atheist at the same time (nothing oxymoron but some morons who don't know stuff but pretend to know it..)

Just a theory again huh, so gravity is not true (theory of gravity), diseases don't come from micro-organisms (germ theory), atoms do not exist (atomic theory) but thermodynamics is true as these are laws of thermodynamics not theories (bu in reality, there is no proof for these laws, including law of conservation of energy, which is principle behind atomic bombs). What is funny is somebody call themselves scientist after believing in these garbage....

 

[angaradubai]

I am a pakistani born and raised in Dubai and I must say that Arabs have a lot more respect for hindus then we pakistani do

The thing is arabs have been trading with hindus and indians for thousands of years, and they never had the mindset to hate hindus, because they themselves worshiped idols before Islam

Unfortunately in the subcontinent Muslims have been brain washed to hate hindus and so are the hindus to hate muslims.

I think this (hate) actually from came from afghans/central asians who invaded south asia, not arabs, because like I said in the early expansion of Islam, arabs did not bring the (hateful) agenda to hate hindus and their expansion to India was mainly peaceful and for business purposes, they studied the indian culture and inventions and took many things back home to their lands. These early books of arabs from the 8th century proves this vary fact.

Even these days hindus in Dubai are respected, they have a big hindu temple here side by side with one of the oldest mosques in the city

 

[Ayush]

^^welcome..

 

[Dubious]

Showing off the full spectrum of ignorance again... being in a religion doesn't make one theist if the religion itself allows non-theistic belief. Sun god and ancestor worship are example. Hinduism has 2 broad division, theists and atheist. So, one can be a hindu and an atheist at the same time (nothing oxymoron but some morons who don't know stuff but pretend to know it..)

Thats right India, go personal ...As I have been saying bring fwd your proof not just your saying...Coz I can say alot too but I am not going to your level....

Just a theory again huh, so gravity is not true (theory of gravity),

And you dont feel gravity? Whatever is not making you float into space is called gravity...It is prove enough...Hence, gravity is not a theory! There is enough prove to prove it Science Experiment : Is Gravity a Theory or a Law? | The Happy Scientist

diseases don't come from micro-organisms (germ theory),

Maybe in India your microscopes cant see Micro organisms to PROVE that they cause diseases ....

atoms do not exist (atomic theory)

Thats your understanding, try going to better schools coz your English is useless too ...Just coz you cant give examples in GENETICS...you run over all theories and law

but thermodynamics is true as these are laws of thermodynamics not theories (bu in reality, there is no proof for these laws, including law of conservation of energy, which is principle behind atomic bombs). What is funny is somebody call themselves scientist after believing in these garbage....

Read this site maybe it will help your small brain understand stuff...[url=http://thehappyscientist.com/science-experiment/gravity-theory-or-law]Science Experiment : Is Gravity a Theory or a Law? | The Happy Scientist[/URL]

 

[Thirdfront]

Thats right India, go personal ...As I have been saying bring fwd your proof not just your saying...Coz I can say alot too but I am not going to your level....

And you dont feel gravity? Whatever is not making you float into space is called gravity...It is prove enough...Hence, gravity is not a theory! There is enough prove to prove it Science Experiment : Is Gravity a Theory or a Law? | The Happy Scientist

Maybe in India your microscopes cant see Micro organisms to PROVE that they cause diseases ....

Thats your understanding, try going to better schools coz your English is useless too ...Just coz you cant give examples in GENETICS...you run over all theories and law

Read this site maybe it will help your small brain understand stuff...[url=http://thehappyscientist.com/science-experiment/gravity-theory-or-law]Science Experiment : Is Gravity a Theory or a Law? | The Happy Scientist[/URL]

ROFLMAO...... I was mocking you when you said evolution is only a "theory".... can't even get some ironic/mocking statement.... let me again dumbify it to you... evolution occurs, species diverge. It is a fact, as gravity, atoms germs. Now, the mechanism of evolution is explained by "Theory of Evolution", same applies to ToG (explains gravity phenomenon), atomic theory (like standard model with higgs boson and stuff) etc etc.... so, you can't say evolution is not true as it is just theory....