Arab descriptions of early medieval South Asia

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Urdu was encouraged by Brits from day 1.

Our sarkari baboo Akbar Alahbadi's discussion with his gora boss is on record.


The reason why Brits were encouraging Urdu was simple.

It was the language of pro-British troops from Punjab and Hindko speaking Pashtuns (although "being a Pashtun" may get tied only to Pashto speakers. but that's a separate discussion).

Without the contribution of these troops, it is likely that Brits would have suffered much bigger losses to their tiny numbers in 1857. And brits wanted to use Urdu language to setup cohesiveness of all the troops, even those who were not Panjabi or Pashtuns.

Urdu is lashkari or military language from many many centuries. And most of the troops even before Brits came from northren Punajb and settled area of KP (former Frontier).

This is why Urdu is so close in pretty much every way to its mother tongue of Punjabi.

Just compare telagu with Punjabi and Urdu and you will figure this out.


I realize that I am delving into some emotional period of 1850s. But then which period is NOT emotional.

This is why my analysis tends to focus on events and not some religious or nationalist mumbo jumbo.

Why you are dragging pakhtuns into the story of urdu langauge?
We have nothing to do with langauge of ganga jamna.
British encouraged a malghoba named urdu simply to replace it with farsi, the formed official langauge of hindostan.

 

[INDIC]

Your views are exact same as my Bihari cousins. Read military history without "Bihar" tinted glass please.

you will know that most of the troops in Nawabs and emperors came from the areas along GT Road spanning from Charsadda in KP and Pothohar in Punjab.

Maharaja Ranjeet Singh used the same area for his military recruitment and so did the British.


So please learn a bit.
thank you

you never find any Muslim from North India claiming Punjabi ancestry from Muslim soldiers. I have heard of Pashtun, Turks, Arabs or Persian but never heard of Punjabi ancestry.

 

[INDIC]

Why you are dragging pakhtuns into the story of urdu langauge?
We have nothing to do with langauge of ganga jamna.
British encouraged a malghoba named urdu simply to replace it with farsi, the formed official langauge of hindostan.

Dialects of Hindi is divided into 5 categories- Western, Eastern, Bihari, Rajasthani and Pahari(different from Pakistani Pahari). There is another group Deccani included only for Urdu but in Hindi we study about it. None of these region fall in Pakistan.

Khariboli dialect is from the Doab of Ganga-Jamuna is standard dialect for both Hindi and Urdu. Another famous dialect Brajbhasha used for poetry is from Mathura. Both Khariboli, Brajbhasha belong to Western group. Awadhi is Eastern Hindi.

People who don't know this pass silly comments.

 

[FaujHistorian]

you never find any Muslim from North India claiming Punjabi ancestry from Muslim soldiers. I have heard of Pashtun, Turks, Arabs or Persian but never heard of Punjabi ancestry.

That's true.

And guess what?

Many Punjabis claim the same ancestry.

That will surely turn us away from a polite discussion on beautiful languages like Punjabi, Urdu, and Hindi

And land you squarely into genetics. And if you go too deep in there.

you will be struck so hard with a high heel shoe, by our resident geneticist (@Talon) that you will cry moma for many days. (just kidding. no offense to you or Talon).


peace

Dialects of Hindi ...s.

So now you dumped urdu while talking about dialects.

Talk about prejudice of nth degree.


While a much older language aka Punjabi cannot have dialects in Western parts of UP.

Hindi that no one knew about before 1947 can have it all.


This surely is the result of sarkari school "Hunstry" books of Hindi medium schools. Sadly.

And you believe in this mumbo jumbo so passionately.

That's what i admire.

you got just like the passion of Islamists.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
British encouraged a malghoba named urdu simply to replace it with farsi, the formed official langauge of hindostan.

Right on bro.


peace


p.s. Just go easy on Pashtun business. unless you want to be called Khushal Khan Khattak, the sole representative of Afghanistan.

 

[INDIC]

That's true.

And guess what?

Many Punjabis claim the same ancestry.

That will surely turn us away from a polite discussion on beautiful languages like Punjabi, Urdu, and Hindi

And land you squarely into genetics. And if you go too deep in there.

you will be struck so hard with a high heel shoe, by our resident geneticist (@Talon) that you will cry moma for many days. (just kidding. no offense to you or Talon).


peace



So now you dumped urdu while talking about dialects.

Talk about prejudice of nth degree.


While a much older language aka Punjabi cannot have dialects in Western parts of UP.

Hindi that no one knew about before 1947 can have it all.


This surely is the result of sarkari school "Hunstry" books of Hindi medium schools. Sadly.

And you believe in this mumbo jumbo so passionately.

That's what i admire.

you got just like the passion of Islamists.

The sole difference is Daccani is not considered a dialect of Hindi otherwise all these are dialects of Hindi/Urdu.

You must have studied in some Sarkari school of Orangi Town . Because Punjabi has no connection with UP. Claiming urdu as a dialect of Punjabi is like claiming Spanish as a dialect of English

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Jats, gujars, awans etc of Punjab were not part of mughal army. Mughal army was turko-iranian and rajput.
Even pakhtuns were not part of mughal nobility and army, because of their contineous rebellions against mughals from bengal to indus.

Punjabis were given some social status by british for unmatched loyalty towards farangis and for their contribution in 1857 war against their own fellow hindostanis.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The sole difference is Daccani is not considered a dialect of Hindi otherwise all these are dialects of Hindi/Urdu. ...

Why are you mixing Hindi (post 1947) and Urdu (pre-1947)?

Was there a Hindi-e-Muhallah in Shahjahn's time (as per your earlier claims regarding Urdu-e-Mualla)

...urdu as a dialect of Punjabi is like claiming Spanish as a dialect of English

Obviously you have know idea about the geography and traditions that resulted in the evolution of Spanish vs. English.

One Southern European language (like Telagu) vs. one North European Language (like Punjabi).

This makes it really bizarre comparison.

really really bizarre.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
Even pakhtuns were not part of mughal nobility and army, because of their contineous rebellions against mughals from bengal to indus.
.

Pakhtuns went everywhere searching for military (or other) jobs.

Even Tipu Sultan's (of mysore) great grandfater came from Orakzai.


Similarly they worked as small time soldiers to top level generals in pretty much every major "security" force maintained by rajas and nawabs.

Mughals just called up their allied rajas and nawabs in case of a war. And thus these Pashtuns worked directly or indirectly for mughals.


you gotta learn a bit before spreading ignorance.


please

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Pakhtuns went everywhere searching for military (or other) jobs.

Even Tipu Sultan's (of mysore) great grandfater came from Orakzai.


Similarly they worked as small time soldiers to top level generals in pretty much every major "security" force maintained by rajas and nawabs.

Mughals just called up their allied rajas and nawabs in case of a war. And thus these Pashtuns worked directly or indirectly for mughals.


you gotta learn a bit before spreading ignorance.


please

Non-sense. Mughals kept pashtuns away from nobility and army. Most of the pashtuns in india were big zamindaars, but were not part of mughal nobility....there was contineous power struggle between mughals and pashtuns in india from akbar to aurangzaib times...when mughals got weakened after aurangzaib death, pakhtuns easily established small independent states from gujrat to rampur...even in your punjab.

 

[INDIC]

Why are you mixing Hindi (post 1947) and Urdu (pre-1947)?

Was there a Hindi-e-Muhallah in Shahjahn's time (as per your earlier claims regarding Urdu-e-Mualla)



Obviously you have know idea about the geography and traditions that resulted in the evolution of Spanish vs. English.

One Southern European language (like Telagu) vs. one North European Language (like Punjabi).

This makes it really bizarre comparison.

really really bizarre.

I already explained you lot. Please talk something meaningful

 

[FaujHistorian]

I already explained you lot. Please talk something meaningful

With due respect. you didn't explain. Just talked and clutched straws.

While I am open to evolution of Urdu language in certain parts that are in India now.

You are utterly refusing to accept the contribution of the regions that are now in Pakistan.

This obviously shows certain level of prejudice against Pakistani areas. And I hope one day you can rid yourself of this petty regionalism and prejudice.

Thank you

 

[INDIC]

With due respect. you didn't explain. Just talked and clutched straws.

While I am open to evolution of Urdu language in certain parts that are in India now.

You are utterly refusing to accept the contribution of the regions that are now in Pakistan.

This obviously shows certain level of prejudice against Pakistani areas. And I hope one day you can rid yourself of this petty regionalism and prejudice.

Thank you

I talked about Urdu not being a Laskhkari language you didn't agree, I explained the dialects in details you didn't agree. It seems you don't want to agree with anything. You made fake claims of of Urdu being a dialect of Punjabi.lol So, you certainly need to talk something meaningful, there is indeed contribution of Pakistani writers and poets but still Urdu evolved without any Punjabi influence. But even you won't agree.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I talked about Urdu not being a Laskhkari language :

Here is the exaxt quotation from your "expert" source.



1. People holding this view cite the fact that ‘Urdu’ is a Turkish word and it literally means ‘lashkar’ or ‘army’ or ‘army camp’.

2. Interestingly, there is hardly any language in the world that has not absorbed words from other languages.

3. The soldiers who spoke these languages were recruited to the Mughal army and to communicate among themselves they used this new language,

note: I added sentence numbers.


In 1, he says what you say.

Then in 2. he cr@ps on his sentence number 1.

What the heck he is saying. Is Urdu not a Turkish word? (he doesn't say)

Is the word Urdu doesn't mean "Army"? (he doesn't say)

has the word Urdu been given some other meaning? (he doesn't say).


So he f@rts about the very meaning of word Urdu without ever giving alternative meanings. That is hight of intellectual dishonesty


The gems are not over yet.


Going to #3.
he just assumes that Urdu is "new language". Again he pulls this "new" term out of his %%%%%.

The reality is that Urdu is not "new language". It is just a dialect of existing language being used by foot soldiers for centuries.



But unfortunately this is the guy who is your god avatar.


I'll call this guy pathetic for writing a cr@p article.

But nothing against you.

I consider you innocent.

Very very innocent.

 

[INDIC]

Here is the exaxt quotation from your "expert" source.



1. People holding this view cite the fact that ‘Urdu’ is a Turkish word and it literally means ‘lashkar’ or ‘army’ or ‘army camp’.

2. Interestingly, there is hardly any language in the world that has not absorbed words from other languages.

3. The soldiers who spoke these languages were recruited to the Mughal army and to communicate among themselves they used this new language,

note: I added sentence numbers.


In 1, he says what you say.

Then in 2. he cr@ps on his sentence number 1.

What the heck he is saying. Is Urdu not a Turkish word? (he doesn't say)

Is the word Urdu doesn't mean "Army"? (he doesn't say)

has the word Urdu been given some other meaning? (he doesn't say).


So he f@rts about the very meaning of word Urdu without ever giving alternative meanings. That is hight of intellectual dishonesty


The gems are not over yet.


Going to #3.
he just assumes that Urdu is "new language". Again he pulls this "new" term out of his %%%%%.

The reality is that Urdu is not "new language". It is just a dialect of existing language being used by foot soldiers for centuries.



But unfortunately this is the guy who is your god avatar.


I'll call this guy pathetic for writing a cr@p article.

But nothing against you.

I consider you innocent.

Very very innocent.

I can't understand it.