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AQ Khan: North Korea paid bribes to Generals for nuclear know-how

It is a big deal. this was a Pakistani asset and if AQ Khan's assertions are true, then people have been selling them around for personal benefit. AQK is not the most reliable person on this, a money trail is not a letter saying money will be paid, a money trail is remittance information, bank statements, bank balances. So its stupid and anyone saying "it looks genuine" should come out and explain why it looks genuine. We have seen blind firing upon Pakistani nuclear program previously too and this looks more like that.

... then why single AQK out for doing that? After all, so many rulers, civil and military, have done, and are doing the same thing with other national assets, are they not?
 
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... then why single AQK out for doing that? After all, so many rulers, civil and military, have done, and are doing the same thing with other national assets, are they not?

Because he hasn't given any actionable evidence against anyone.
 
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Someone on another thread said something along the lines of 'why bring in the civilian government when discussing the military', well, in this case, why introduce a subject that the civilians are responsible for, and blame the military?

Introducing economic reforms, tax reforms and reforming the loss making PSE's (that cost the taxpayers close to the entire defence budget every year) are decisions that are no in the hands of the elected representatives of Pakistan - so while your larger point is valid, it needs to be made in a different thread and addresses to the civilian institutions, not the military.

The paucity of resources being directed into development, education and infrastructure can be easily addressed through the reforms mentioned, and those reforms are the only 'sustainable and long term solution' to the lack of resources in Pakistan - cutting a few billion in military expenditure will only kick the can down the road and provide short term relief, without addressing the actual structural problems related to corruption, poor law and order (driving away investment or making investment to expensive and risky), very small tax base, PSE's that lose billions of dollars a year and cause indirect losses of billions more etc.

The thing is, you are not even ready to bring in the reforms.

You see, most countries who have their economy in a dire shape take some desperate measures.

Just like India did in 1991.

Your economy is literally broke today.

Yet your people are loathe to bring in the reforms.

1. Land reforms.

2. RGST.

3. Tax reforms.

4. Political reforms. etc.

I mean what's amazing is that everybody in your country realizes that the patient is on the death bed, yet they are not willing to bear the pain of an injection.
 
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Haaaaaaa

<quote>A senior U.S. official said separately that government experts concluded after examining a copy of the letter that the signature appears authentic and that the substance is “consistent with our knowledge” now of the same events. Both officials declined to be named in this article because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the allegation.</quote>

I hope these are not the same officials who found WMD's in Iraq, chemical and biological labs, Anthrax exchange with M. Atta... whose 25 or so secret agencies were asleep when numerous terrorists lived and trained across one of their FBI HQ's, they could not even fly a Cessna 150 or 152, let alone flying commercial airliners, bypassed ICTS, deviated from their flight plans and dominated air space for about 3 hours or more and not a single fighter a/c intercepted any plane except the Shanksville, PA which may have been shot down and Rumsfeld spilled the beans...

Nuff said.
 
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Brother i understand where you are coming from! I never deny US capabilities vs Pakistan or even any country in the world for that matter, We have done war game senario vs USA and we stand military not more then 4 days, We lose Karachi within 16 hours against USA but when i speak of NUKES, you don't get what i say, of course USA even INDIA know our nuclear fields and instillation same as we know about Indians where about because we share this information under agreement so in case of war we don't hit each others facilities by mistake in conventional war scenario, What i was talking about is our mobile system and no one knows it's exact where about of all the weapons, this is another reason Pakistan is doing mass production so it is hard to pin point many war heads on mobile launchers. Now i don't deny US stealth technology at all actually you took me totally wrong buddy. So im not gonna stress about it i would say to read my post again as far as tipu is concerned buddy you might wanna have a look at news of late 2006 and entire 2007 when Musharraf declared 2008 a year for Pakistan to reach space, We do posses ICBM it's just not declared because if we do, many countries come in the rang and we will be isolated in this time since we have no standing, we have no international STANDING recently, these are sad facts so kiyani deciding to go ICBM means green light given to US forces to attack Pakistan by making many excuses as we all know that west is good at excuses, lobbies will work day night and convince american people that Pakistan is direct threat to USA, they will also convince the house and senate, then game over for Pakistan. Pakistan will fight like guerrilla war just like afghans but we don't want that we have so much to lose vs Afghans who had nothing to lose. i have seen many members saying so what Pakistan should be free to deal with any country, i just Ask Allah to give them some hidayat amin

Look,I don't want to spoil your patriotic enthusiasm...but it is you who should be realistic in your approach...

Our nuclear weapons storage facilities are known to US...its simple,when they deny access to a mountanious area of Pakistan,suspicion arouses...With the current advancement in technology,it is very easy to identify them....They usually are protected heavily with no-go areas around them...Taliban cannot attack them because they don't have the resources to conduct a recci for the attack...
Pakistan Army does know about them...the personnel which move these things around know what they are dealing with...

FYI,Babur is a CM,which has entered production...and about Tipu (7000km)...its just a rumor...even the 4000km range missile is under-development...there is no point in keeping a missile lab-ready and not testing it due to international pressure...you may believe whatever you want to,but you don't have the sources to confirm its validity...I have discussed a lot on it...

About stealth UAVs...brother,search wikipedia on RQ-170...you'll get the answer...
And USAF Blackhawks came through minimized RCS and terrain-masking...they have full potential to do it again,but on a very limited scale...
 
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The thing is, you are not even ready to bring in the reforms.
Again, that is a question and discussion directed to the civilian elected representatives of Pakistan, and one held in a different thread.

I fail to see its relevance in a thread on the nuclear program, or on any thread related to military/nuclear procurements/developments

You see, most countries who have their economy in a dire shape take some desperate measures.

1. Land reforms.

2. RGST.

3. Tax reforms.

4. Political reforms. etc.

I mean what's amazing is that everybody in your country realizes that the patient is on the death bed, yet they are not willing to bear the pain of an injection.
I agree, but again, my point is that this discussion has no place in a thread on military/nuclear procurements, and needs to be addressed to the elected representatives, media, civil society etc.

My point is simply that the military budget is not the main reason behind paucity of funds being pumped into development - nor will cutting the development budget provide anything more than a short-term respite, while the major structural problems of small tax-base and loss making PSE's continue to bleed Pakistan.
 
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I HAVE said it before, let me scream it again: &#8216;Not in my name&#8217;, your shenanigans, sirs!

I aim my angry shout at those who have brought our country to its present sorry pass &#8212; no prizes for guessing who &#8216;they&#8217; are, of course &#8212; the recent raft of allegations being akin to several last straws on the poor camel&#8217;s back. The camel being our poor country, of course.

Whilst we will leave Saleem Shahzad&#8217;s brutal murder aside for a bit, it is poetic justice, is it not, that the dagger that has plunged deep into the back of the Deep State was wielded by none other than its own one-time hero, the oft-crowned with gold crowns (I kid you not) father of Pakistan&#8217;s bum, Dr A.Q. Khan, aka Mohsin-i-Pakistan.

By golly was he a sight to behold once upon a time; doing what he willed; striding across the Pakistani stage like a colossus; giving not a whit for elected prime ministers and other such, encouraged by the generals who had complete control of our bums and the factory out of which they came, and whatever went on within its secretive walls. And now that same man accuses a former COAS and another general of bribery.

Before we go any further, a little anecdote about His Arrogance. In 1989, when I was the sorely missed Benazir Bhutto&#8217;s press secretary, Khalid Hasan did a critical piece on AQ Khan in The Muslim, an English-language newspaper that used to come out from Islamabad.

AQ scrawled the prime minister a letter in pencil, on a paper torn from a child&#8217;s notebook (I ask you) to the effect that the
government was so ineffectual that it could do nothing about journalists like Khalid Hasan etcetera.

The PM marked the letter to me which I returned some minutes later with the remarks that there was complete freedom of the press and the government could do nothing at all in the matter; that the only course open to AQ was to sue Khalid Hasan/the paper.

I also added that he needed a quick course in staff duties, especially in the proper and appropriate way to address a D.O. letter to the prime minister of the country. Do I have to say that the note, file and all, disappeared, never to be seen again?

It is ironical is it not, that it was none other than the army high command who raised A.Q. Khan to the level of a demigod, so much so that even relatively junior officers would not hear a word against this hero. I remember a cousin and platoon-mate and buddy who was a colonel at the time, walking out of my house just because I said AQ was getting too big for his boots &#8212; this was 1989 &#8212; I had left the army in 1976.

Then you-know-what hit the fan and the then army chief kicked him off the totem pole and (like the Commando he was/is) went on kicking him until he was black and blue.

All of the blame was put on AQ as if anyone would believe that he was the only one involved in selling nuclear materials and know-how to others. Indeed, he simply could not have proliferated without the tin-hats knowing; I mean for God&#8217;s sake, C-130s take off in the middle of the night from Chaklala airbase and no one knows? Duh?

Remember also that AQ was the most well-protected, well-watched, well-spied-on person in the Land of the Pure. And they didn&#8217;t know he was flying off to North Korea, or was seeing off his precious cargo?

I am not saying Jehangir Karamat or that other chap mentioned in the letter leaked by AQ himself took those dollars and jewels, what I am saying is that AQ could not have sold nuclear technology by his lonesome self. And that the tin-hats (or some of them) would have asked for their share of the loot &#8230; I mean we, er, know their proclivity to make money. The fact is that our country has been very poorly served by the tin-hats &#8212; to the point that we are the pariahs of the world with all of us carrying the can for them. Serve them right that their own creation has come to haunt them.
Of course, the propagandists of the Deep State are again spreading it about that this is, what else, but a Jewish/Indian/American plot to do in Pakistan. Why do they simply not ask AQ to say he did not leak the letter or that it is a fake?

So then, the Ghairat Brigades led by our Rommels and Guderians must be thrilled that the Americans are putting the brakes on military aid &#8212; just what our sovereignty needed, if you ask me.


One hopes one will see a demonstration on the lines of the one praising the ISI with well-painted and expensive placards that was taken out in Islamabad after the Osama/Abbottabad affair, to the effect that Pakistan&#8217;s ghairat is at last restored.

What we will wait to see, however, is what other sources of military aid our geniuses come up with, to ensure their continued angry belligerence towards the rest of the world.

And now to Saleem Shahzad&#8217;s horrific murder. Surprise, surprise that the commission looking into it has announced its disappointment at people not coming forward to testify.

I should have warned the concerned to beware of Justice Saqib Nisar who is not afraid to say it like it is &#8212; good on you, My Lord &#8212; as I noticed during the hearings on the 19th Amendment in the Supreme Court. Well, they are terrified of being beaten to death themselves, even those who know exactly what happened to Saleem: please understand that you are dealing with a monster, My Lord. n

Pariahs of the world | Opinion | DAWN.COM
 
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Reading AQ Khan&#8217;s Alleged Letter On North Korea

This purported North Korean letter combines two of CIA&#8217;s favorite targets: Pakistan&#8217;s nukes and Pakistan&#8217;s military in one fine shot. Langley couldn&#8217;t be happier. It wants to drag Dr. Khan and two Pakistani generals into an open discussion of how Pakistan&#8217;s nukes were financed. Pakistanis should not fall for the trap.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan&#8212;A letter from a North Korean official to Dr. A. Q. Khan was published by two major American newspapers, the Washington Post and the New York Times on 7 July 2011.

Far from being a surprise, the letter is part of a pattern, where CIA continues to doggedly pursue and scandalize Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear program. On 15 May 2011, CIA was probably behind another unusual story in the American magazine Newsweek, where satellite images of Pakistani nuclear reactors were published as evidence of &#8216;the world&#8217;s largest expanding nuclear program.&#8217; The spin was meant to create global hype and alarm.

Another target that has picked up urgency in American eyes is Pakistani military.

US officials are trying to whip up anti-military sentiments in Pakistan.

This purported North Korean letter combines two of CIA&#8217;s favorite targets: Pakistan&#8217;s nukes and Pakistan&#8217;s military.

The first part deals with the apparent murder of the wife of the North Korean representative in Islamabad. Not much is known about this case in public. But curiously the author of the letter accuses ISI, along with CIA and South Korean intelligence, of orchestrating the murder. But the letter doesn&#8217;t explain how North Korea could enter into highly classified cooperation with a country whose spy agency is working against North Korean interests.

The second and third parts deal with payments and arrangements to place documents and other material on a North Korean plane departing Islamabad.

Even if this letter is authentic, it would be suicidal for Pakistani intelligence to reveal how it operates by explaining methods of receiving and making payments.

Putting such payments in writing also violates rules of secrecy. Even novices in the business of espionage and secret deals won&#8217;t make this kind of a mistake. The North Korean official whose signature appears on the document is a known intelligence old hand and will not be caught making this beginner&#8217;s mistake.

Moreover, the history of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear program includes numerous instances where money exchanged hands in ways not vey dissimilar to the description in this letter. This is not unusual and is also true for the nuclear programs of Israel and India.

There is always the chance that some secret money would be skimmed by shady characters. This happens in underhand dealings. But most of the money generated to finance a nuclear program is normally pumped back into the system to pay for the expensive business of building nuclear weapons. This has been a rule of thumb in general, as the records of several nuclear-armed countries show.

Authentic or not, the release of this document has several objectives apart from the usual demonization of Pakistani nukes. It aims at stripping Pakistani military of any credibility in the eyes of Pakistani citizens. It also aims at forcing Pakistani military officials, especially those named in the letter and who are long retired, to openly discuss how finances were handled in building the Pakistani nuclear program. If this happens, the back and forth would reveal more secrets.

[Apart from avoiding the trap of discussing Pakistani nuclear finances publicly, another thing that Pakistani officials should watch for is alienating loyalists of the Pakistani State, people like Dr. A. Q. Khan.
 
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It aims at stripping Pakistani military of any credibility in the eyes of Pakistani citizens.


..... as if much is left anyway!
 
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^^^^^
Mr Shafi is biased and in this case, not to be taken seriously, but he has the absolute right to express his garbage.

re Mr Shafi, try one thing that my brother told me.. whenever you come across his article perform a web search on following words

commando
Musharraf

9 out of 10 times you will find him bashing Musharraf. the guy has a chronic problem with the armed forces of Pakistan and will readily side with anyone who has been at odds with the Pak forces or Musharraf.

come on and try it whether you are using internet explorer or firefox try Ctrl+F and try the magic words.
 
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..... as if much is left anyway!


switching off fox news and CNN helps a lot (same goes for Pakistani tabloid channels)

indeed Pakistan Army doesn&#8217;t enjoy the unanimous and unquestioned love and affection among Pakistanis like the US military does but it I still seen as the only credible force to help in natural disasters to man made conflicts. From elections and census to Wapda reforms and law and order.
The doomsday forecasters need to work harder to break our spirit.
They have failed so far and they shall fail again.
 
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switching off fox news and CNN helps a lot (same goes for Pakistani tabloid channels)

indeed Pakistan Army doesn&#8217;t enjoy the unanimous and unquestioned love and affection among Pakistanis like the US military does but it I still seen as the only credible force to help in natural disasters to man made conflicts. From elections and census to Wapda reforms and law and order.
The doomsday forecasters need to work harder to break our spirit.
They have failed so far and they shall fail again.

Whatever gave you that idea?!

Criticism of the US military is almost as old as the US itself, right down to a recent Supreme Court case where certain churches were disrupting military funerals of soldiers killed in the WoT as "deserved deaths".

What is different is that PA is new to being criticized since it has taken one hit after another recently. It can, and will, improve its performance, and do a better job at handling criticism, and it will do just fine then.
 
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he cant be a traaitor the generals but a few black sheep not all generals or all army is responsable for doing such a thing to such a patriot of pakistan and here people call themselves pakistani and saying he is like that?
 
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