Anza Draws First Blood In Kargil

[RazPaK]

Kargil probe body had sought Musharraf

Send young men to fight till their deaths against a numerically and technologically superior enemy, and then disown them and refuse to take their bodies back.

Only thing this army is capable of (it leaders, not the average soldier, or at least no all of them) is intimidating, bullying, and killing its own people.

I suggest you read A Kargil Fable by Dr. Shireen Mazari. That may clear up to you who was truly the coward.

I do not agree with your assessment at all.

 

[EagleEyes]

Kargil probe body had sought Musharraf

Send young men to fight till their deaths against a numerically and technologically superior enemy, and then disown them and refuse to take their bodies back.

Only thing this army is capable of (it leaders, not the average soldier, or at least no all of them) is intimidating, bullying, and killing its own people.

Okay, glad to hear about your point of view. Lets stick to the topic shall we?

 

[Desert Fox]

It was a special operation and the men that served knew exactly what they were getting into.

So you're telling me that the men were told before they were sent to battle that for their courage and acts of valour, in return their government and army will disown them and refuse to take back their bodies?

Heck, indians had more respect for our soldiers, at least they had the audacity to recognize their courageous acts.

 

[A1Kaid]

Kargil probe body had sought Musharraf

Send young men to fight till their deaths against a numerically and technologically superior enemy, and then disown them and refuse to take their bodies back.

Only thing this army is capable of (it leaders, not the average soldier, or at least no all of them) is intimidating, bullying, and killing its own people.

You're wrong about Kargil I assure you, I know for a fact Pakistan made key and critical successes in Kargil; Pakistan simply doesn't propagate it's successes. The Indian media however propagates better and makes public opinion believe it succeeded in it's counter-Kargil operation. Just know Pakistan holds territory to this day in Kargil, and Kargil is effectively controlled by Pakistan. The probe you linked to was a 1999 probe ordered by Nawaz Sharif who had political motives to condemn the Kargil operation.

 

[Desert Fox]

Okay, glad to hear about your point of view. Lets stick to the topic shall we?

Just wanted to make a point that shooting down a few planes didn't change the outcome of that battle. Just like winning a few aerial battles in East Pakistan didn't change the outcome of that war (93,000 POW's, war and territory lost). We lost Kargil, indians still have Siachen. Not only did we lose Kargil, but we disowned the men whom we sent to their deaths, without any air support.


Today our people are being butchered in Tribal belt by remotely piloted flying robots, and this anza glory hasn't done anything to save the lives of the innocents there.

All of this hot air of a few past victories, which by the way are completely irrelevant when one looks at the bigger picture, won't alter history or the present.

 

[bigzgvr4]

You're wrong about Kargil I assure you, I know for a fact Pakistan made key and critical successes in Kargil; Pakistan simply doesn't propagate it's successes. The Indian media however propagates better and makes public opinion believe it succeeded in it's counter-Kargil operation. Just know Pakistan holds territory to this day in Kargil, and Kargil is effectively controlled by Pakistan. The probe you linked to was a 1999 probe ordered by Nawaz Sharif who had political motives to condemn the Kargil operation.

i agree with you a lot of them dont know about the initial entry of pakistani troop in kargil point 5353(tiger Hill) which is still under pakistancontrol today you tube point 5353 kargil and you will see

any way a suggestion the anza 1 should be given to pakistan rangers deployed at the no hostile border and the anza2 and anza3 should be given to the pakistan army and should definatley be at FOBs with hostile border like the incident we had with the nato troop firing it could have been less casualties had they have an anza2 or 3 there

 

[RazPaK]

So you're telling me that the men were told before they were sent to battle that for their courage and acts of valour, in return their government and army will disown them and refuse to take back their bodies?

Heck, indians had more respect for our soldiers, at least they had the audacity to recognize their courageous acts.

The point was not to provide air support.

Nawaz went cowering to the Americans.

Had the mujahadeen held out for a few more weeks, the Indians were going to negotiate and probably hand over some territory.

Indians had respect?

Have you lost your mind?

Go read about their coffin scandal and how they were trying to hide their casualties.

 

[Desert Fox]

You're wrong about Kargil I assure you, I know for a fact Pakistan made key and critical successes in Kargil; Pakistan simply doesn't propagate it's successes. The Indian media however propagates better and makes public opinion believe it succeeded in it's counter-Kargil operation. Just know Pakistan holds territory to this day in Kargil, and Kargil is effectively controlled by Pakistan. The probe you linked to was a 1999 probe ordered by Nawaz Sharif who had political motives to condemn the Kargil operation.

Kargil was a complete failure, holding one peak doesn't change the bigger picture. In event of war indians can blow that peak to smithereens since they are better prepared today than they were 13-14 years ago. All of Pakistan's initial successes were reversed by overwhelming indian numerical and technological superiority.

 

[SQ8]

The point was not to provide air support.

Nawaz went cowering to the Americans.

Had the mujahadeen held out for a few more weeks, the Indians were going to negotiate and probably hand over some territory.

Indians had respect?

Have you lost your mind?

Go read about their coffin scandal and how they were trying to hide their casualties.

Apparently.. Shireen mazari.. who has long standing been the establishment lackey is more reliable than someone who was part and participle of the establishment and now says otherwise about Kargil.

EX Gen reveals details on Kargil fiasco - thenews.com.pk


In any case.. this thread is to focus on the effectiveness of the Anza system.. not its users.

 

[RazPaK]

Kargil was a complete failure, holding one peak doesn't change the bigger picture. In event of war indians can blow that peak to smithereens since they are better prepared today than they were 13-14 years ago. All of Pakistan's initial successes were reversed by overwhelming indian numerical and technological superiority.

Lies and propaganda.

When the mujahadeen were retreating on the orders of Ganja Shareef, they got fired on by the Indians in the back.


LOL.


Where the hell you at these days? TOI?


We have a Kargil veteran on the forum.

Apparently.. Shireen mazari.. who has long standing been the establishment lackey is more reliable than someone who was part and participle of the establishment and now says otherwise about Kargil.

EX Gen reveals details on Kargil fiasco - thenews.com.pk


In any case.. this thread is to focus on the effectiveness of the Anza system.. not its users.

Allegiances can be bought out, and the motive of the officer in question is definitely not clear.

 

[Desert Fox]

The point was not to provide air support.

What kind of a high risk operation such as Kargil, goes without air support? Goes to show that Pakistani military strategists and planners are incompetent and don't know what they are doing, playing with the lives of thousands of young men.

Nawaz went cowering to the Americans.

The fact that he's still in Pakistan says a lot about the common folk.

Had the mujahadeen held out for a few more weeks, the Indians were going to negotiate and probably hand over some territory.

Held out where and against what? They were being blasted by indian aircraft armed with israeli PGM's. There's videos on youtube of indian PGB's hitting Pakistan Army position in Kargil.

Indians had respect?

Have you lost your mind?

Seeing the intent of his men, the CO (indian) ordered them (his troops) to stop. He told them that this was a brave man and his body should not be desecrated at any cost. He ordered that Sher's body be brought back to Srinagar rather than being left at Tiger Hill. Upon finding out that Sher was a Pakistani Captain, he made sure that Sher gets a proper military treatment from the Indians. It was he (indian CO) who wrote the citation of Captain Sher, recommending him for the highest gallantry award in Pakistan. The citation can be found at Captain Sher Khans residence in Fajounabad Charbagh, Swabi.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/616-capt-kernal-sher-khan-nh.html#post5344

 

[SQ8]

Gentlemen.. the Kargil war has a too many threads running.. look for those.

This thread is about the ANZA Surface to Air missile's first performance.. and NOT how it effected the outcome of Kargil.

 

[RazPaK]

What kid of a high risk operation such as Kargil, goes without air support? Goes to show that Pakistani military strategists and planners are incompetent and don't know what they are doing, playing with the lives of thousands of young men.


The fact that he's still in Pakistan says a lot about the common folk.


Held out where and against what? They were being blasted by indian aircraft armed with israeli PGM's. There's videos on youtube of indian PGB's hitting Pakistan Army position in Kargil.





http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/616-capt-kernal-sher-khan-nh.html#post5344

Musharraf is right when he says our own people are our worst enemies.

Back channel diplomacy was occurring in the summer of '99.

The Indians were panicking because Kargil exposed them. It was an intelligence failure of epic proportions.


By sending PAF across LOC, Pakistan would have have started an all out war with India rather than a calculated low scale war.

Gentlemen.. the Kargil war has a too many threads running.. look for those.

This thread is about the ANZA Surface to Air missile's first performance.. and NOT how it effected the outcome of Kargil.

Fine......


Also it's obvious you are biased against Dr. Mazari because she doesn't tow the liberal woe is me line.

 

[SQ8]

Also it's obvious you are biased against Dr. Mazari because she doesn't tow the liberal woe is me line.

And its obvious you are biased against anything that does not meet your opinions.
So not an inch gained or lost.

 

[A1Kaid]

Kargil was a complete failure, holding one peak doesn't change the bigger picture. In event of war indians can blow that peak to smithereens since they are better prepared today than they were 13-14 years ago. All of Pakistan's initial successes were reversed by overwhelming indian numerical and technological superiority.

Kargil was a complete failure, holding one peak doesn't change the bigger picture.

Please, you don't know what you're talking about nor have you thoroughly researched this topic. I've personally talked with a Colonel in the PA who is well-informed about Kargil, we've also discussed this subject in the private section of the forum.

I've come to the conclusion Kargil was significantly successful, you must believe in the old Indian lie that "all Pak intruders" were expelled.