Antony to induct LCA into Air Force on Dec 20

[shuttler]

this is not an opinion based discussion buddy.this is a facts based one.i gave u the professional procedues and definitions.if u still insist that there are technical inabilities in the plane then why not point them out.i may learn a thing or two from u.

I have supplied my sources to back up my argument that there is a technical gap
If you insist there is none then I can see it is your opinion abeit you claim professional airfoce blah blah

 

[neehar]

I have supplied my sources to back up my argument that there is a technical gap
If you insist there is none then I can see it is your opinion abeit you claim professional airfoce blah blah

what this one??

"Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement.

The date at which IOC is achieved often defines the in-service date (ISD) for an associated system Declaration of an initial operating capability may imply that the capability will be developed in the future, for example by modifications or adjustments to improve the system's performance, deployment of greater numbers of systems (perhaps of different types), or testing and training that permit wider application of the capability.Once the capability is fully developed, Full Operational Capability may be declared."
where does it say that capabilities are less than foc??thats what i said to u all along.all the above part u highlighted is possible only when the aircraft enters production.which is what exactly what our govt is doing which is what every govt including u.s and china does.if ur argument is valid then all the aircrafts in the world are half of their potential including urs.where does it say that ioc<foc??pray tel me

 

[Superboy]

Tejas has not been tested with BVR air to air missiles. That would be more difficult due to Israeli radar and Russian BVR missiles. FOC is likely 2016 at the earliest.

 

[indiatester]

this is not an opinion based discussion buddy.this is a facts based one.i gave u the professional procedues and definitions.if u still insist that there are technical inabilities in the plane then why not point them out.i may learn a thing or two from u.

I had a similar discussion with him on the high grade steel produced for INS Vikranth. Even after showing the published making procedure by India and quantities, he did not believe. Now not bothered with him anymore. Just one more -ve whisperer in my list.

 

[shuttler]

what this one??

"Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement.

The date at which IOC is achieved often defines the in-service date (ISD) for an associated system Declaration of an initial operating capability may imply that the capability will be developed in the future, for example by modifications or adjustments to improve the system's performance, deployment of greater numbers of systems (perhaps of different types), or testing and training that permit wider application of the capability.Once the capability is fully developed, Full Operational Capability may be declared."
where does it say that capabilities are less than foc??thats what i said to u all along.all the above part u highlighted is possible only when the aircraft enters production.which is what exactly what our govt is doing which is what every govt including u.s and china does.if ur argument is valid then all the aircrafts in the world are half of their potential including urs.where does it say that ioc<foc??pray tel me

If you cant comprehend I cant help you further.
You need to go back for more schooling

I sign off from this post instead of dragging on for arguments which are silly

 

[Secur]

That is speculative, you or me do not posses the the IOC 2 matrix to know which parameters have been verified.
FOC describes the concept to be a certification event marking completion of training, providing maintenance facilities, and end of planned production of the item

So from thee result "i.e. induction", looks like IOC2 will be granted on dec, after a thoroughly puting the craft through it's paces. Few contemporary a/c's have gone through such stringent testing regime.

Yes it is , but knowing the Indian defense industry and its openness , I am sure we will soon have some information about it . Sandy , actually Full Operational Capability is more wider than that which means that the aircraft has been certified to do all the duties as intended and has come far from minimally deployable form , though the concept varies for obvious reasons , most of the time IOC merely is air worthiness certification . I am sure for now , Tejas cant fire/drop all the missiles/bombs as envisaged in the project , you may know better about this .

Yes , it will be , the Govt and the organization will want to fast track the project after the delays and cost overruns . Surely , it can be inducted but you will not see it in the operational status , performing intended duties for now , that will take time . I do not understand the logic about testing it so stringently if it was ready earlier somehow . IAF has other aircraft logic doesn't work here , since the AF has a lot of old Aircraft to be retired immediately .

 

[Superboy]

A plane isn't considered operational till it achieves FOC. Tejas still has a long way to go before FOC.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Yes it is , but knowing the Indian defense industry and its openness , I am sure we will soon have some information about it . Sandy , actually Full Operational Capability is more wider than that which means that the aircraft has been certified to do all the duties as intended and has come far from minimally deployable form , though the concept varies for obvious reasons , most of the time IOC merely is air worthiness certification . I am sure for now , Tejas cant fire/drop all the missiles/bombs as envisaged in the project , you may know better about this .

Yes , it will be , the Govt and the organization will want to fast track the project after the delays and cost overruns . Surely , it can be inducted but you will not see it in the operational status , performing intended duties for now , that will take time . I do not understand the logic about testing it so stringently if it was ready earlier somehow . IAF has other aircraft logic doesn't work here , since the AF has a lot of old Aircraft to be retired immediately .

Yes, it cannot fire all its weapons. But it will start taking part in some of duties. It is already participating in exercises. main thing why IOC-2 is important is because it clears the aircraft for series production. So production is the word one should focus on

 

[sancho]

@sancho @sandy_3126

Does the part " fire control radar directed the R73 to the target" mean that earlier issues with the nose cone is resolved?

Depends on what the issue actually was, there were different reports and manly based on guesses.

show me your literature

Simple example, Eurofighter program history:

The minimum acceptance was only for quick reaction interception roles and it went into mass production for 4 different air forces. The IOC which included some technical and weapon additions came later only and as you can see the FOC was achieved only years after the production start and that is not unusual, but common for most modern fighter developments. In nearly all cases of 4th gen fighter developments, they will be qualified mainly for a single role, while additional once and increased technical capability will be added later. The first Rafales were meant for carrier operations and only for A2A roles, it had limited optical and EW capabilities, which came only with the later F2 and 3 batches for the air force.
The same goes for JF 17 or J10 btw too and in the case of LCA the delays of the developments of certain parts, mixed up it IOC capabilities as well. It already has an integrated HMS, coupled with the R73, it has an LDP integrated as well as LGBs, so it already has capabilities which usually will be added only in later stages. If I'm not wrong JF 17 still has no LDP, HMS, nor any LGBs right? So LCAs IOC might be unusual and obviously delayed, but is by far not like you "think" it is.

 

[MilSpec]

Yes it is , but knowing the Indian defense industry and its openness , I am sure we will soon have some information about it . Sandy , actually Full Operational Capability is more wider than that which means that the aircraft has been certified to do all the duties as intended and has come far from minimally deployable form , though the concept varies for obvious reasons , most of the time IOC merely is air worthiness certification . I am sure for now , Tejas cant fire/drop all the missiles/bombs as envisaged in the project , you may know better about this .

Yes , it will be , the Govt and the organization will want to fast track the project after the delays and cost overruns . Surely , it can be inducted but you will not see it in the operational status , performing intended duties for now , that will take time . I do not understand the logic about testing it so stringently if it was ready earlier somehow . IAF has other aircraft logic doesn't work here , since the AF has a lot of old Aircraft to be retired immediately .

The aircraft cannot get FOC without being inducted, for FOC, it essentially translates to be able to be implemented, with training tactics, maintenance regimes at base repair depots, certifications of ground crews for key techs etc.. that is long way, but it is not at all odd for induction to happen before FOC...

 

[Secur]

The aircraft cannot get FOC without being inducted, for FOC, it essentially translates to be able to be implemented, with training tactics, maintenance regimes at base repair depots, certifications of ground crews for key techs etc.. that is long way, but it is not at all odd for induction to happen before FOC...

Not to mention all the capabilities envisaged at first and intended roles/duties .

Catch -22 the way I see it .

 

[shuttler]

Simple example, Eurofighter program history:

The minimum acceptance was only for quick reaction interception roles and it went into mass production for 4 different air forces. The IOC which included some technical and weapon additions came later only and as you can see the FOC was achieved only years after the production start and that is not unusual, but common for most modern fighter developments. In nearly all cases of 4th gen fighter developments, they will be qualified mainly for a single role, while additional once and increased technical capability will be added later. The first Rafales were meant for carrier operations and only for A2A roles, it had limited optical and EW capabilities, which came only with the later F2 and 3 batches for the air force.
The same goes for JF 17 or J10 btw too and in the case of LCA the delays of the developments of certain parts, mixed up it IOC capabilities as well. It already has an integrated HMS, coupled with the R73, it has an LDP integrated as well as LGBs, so it already has capabilities which usually will be added only in later stages. If I'm not wrong JF 17 still has no LDP, HMS, nor any LGBs right? So LCAs IOC might be unusual and obviously delayed, but is by far not like you "think" it is.

these are worthless arguments as I have pointed out earlier in the above that the level of technical competence of india against that of usa / europe / China is not the same, which means it will take a lot more time and more modifications to the indian program

 

[sancho]

these are worthless arguments

Which is not surprising for me, since you only claim things that you actually don't understand and I just tried to give you a better idea about it.

 

[shuttler]

Which is not surprising for me, since you only claim things that you actually don't understand and I just tried to give you a better idea about it.

You are just quoting something which dont help the argument PERIOD

 

[faithfulguy]

It is true and LCA mark 2 is the real game changer and has export potential .....

LCA is a good interceptor which suits India

When is MKII schedule to be ready? Should India focus on this game changer fully instead of dividing up resources between this plane and the AMCA?