What's new

Anti-USA in Indonesia and China

prima99

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
587
Reaction score
-8
Country
Indonesia
Location
Ireland
this is really nothing new. i thought i could share some article about Anti-USA during the Cold War.

SHADOW PLAY . Living Dangerously | Thirteen/WNET

"Go to hell with your aid" Sukarno told the U.S. Ambassador, who was attending a public rally on March 25, 1964. One year later, on August 17, 1965, Sukarno gave another speech suggesting that Indonesia should join an anti-imperialist alliance with Beijing and other Asian communist regimes. America's worst fears, it seemed, were being realized. The Indonesian domino was teetering.


your thoughts?
 
.
@prima99

I heard that he was gotten rid of by American using Radical Islamic Groups in Indonesia. Is it true????
 
.
this is really nothing new. i thought i could share some article about Anti-USA during the Cold War.

SHADOW PLAY . Living Dangerously | Thirteen/WNET

"Go to hell with your aid" Sukarno told the U.S. Ambassador, who was attending a public rally on March 25, 1964. One year later, on August 17, 1965, Sukarno gave another speech suggesting that Indonesia should join an anti-imperialist alliance with Beijing and other Asian communist regimes. America's worst fears, it seemed, were being realized. The Indonesian domino was teetering.


your thoughts?

Same as US did earlier
 
.
Well it wouldn't have mattered even if we did give aid

How did Suharto steal $35 billion?

Mohamed Suharto has received a dubious honorfrom Transparency International, which named the former Indonesian president the most corrupt world leader of the past 20 years. With his family's takings estimated at between $15 billion and $35 billion, Suharto topped such notorious kleptocrats as Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines ($5 billion to $10 billion) and Nigeria's Sani Abacha ($2 billion to $5 billion). How did the longtime Indonesian strongman amass his wealth?

Through a system that his political opponents called KKN, the Indonesian acronym for "corruption, collusion, nepotism." Suharto handed control of state-run monopolies to family members and friends, who in turn kicked back millions in tribute payments. Those payments were usually cloaked as charitable donations to the dozens of foundations overseen by Suharto. Known as yayasans, these organizations were supposed to assist with the constructions of rural schools and hospitals but instead functioned as Suharto's personal piggy banks. Doling out millions to one of the foundations was simply part of the cost of doing business in Indonesia during much of Suharto's 32-year reign. Financial institutions were ordered to contribute a portion of their annual profits to a yayasan, for example, and wealthy Indonesians were expected to "tithe" a certain percentage of their salaries

The charitable foundations were only the tip of the KKN iceberg. In order to exploit Indonesia's natural resources, companies had to enlist the aid of a Suharto crony—usually one of his children—in order to get through the bureaucratic red tape. In return, the cronies expected an equity stake in the enterprise, without putting forth any monetary capital. When Jakarta's water system was privatized in the mid-1990s, for example, one of the winning bidders had to give Suharto's son, Sigit, 20 percent of the venture's shares. Sigit's involvement with the company amounted to showing up for the contract-signing ceremony.

Suharto and his clan also used services firms to siphon cash from larger companies. The most famous example concerns Pertamina, the state oil company. According to a 1999 exposé in Time Asia, Pertamina was forced to import and export its oil through two Suharto-family trading companies, which charged up to 35 cents a barrel for the service. Other Suharto-related companies enjoyed favorable contracts to provide the oil monopoly with everything from cafeteria food to insurance. When Pertamina's books were finally audited in July 1999, it was estimated that at least $6.1 billion had been stolen in this manner.

Suharto-affiliated companies could also borrow money from Bank Indonesia, the central bank, without paying back a dime. International accounting standards were pretty much ignored in Indonesia prior to Suharto's downfall in 1998, and there was little pressure on the nation's oligarchs to make good on their debt obligations.

Suharto made only token gestures toward combating corruption, and they were largely confined to the first decade or so of his rule. A 1977 program called "Operation Orderliness," for example, was supposed to curtail cronyism, but it ended up targeting only small-fry civil servants. Suharto was supposed to face trial in 2000, in relation to approximately $571 million he embezzled from the yayasans, but doctors ruled that he was too ill to withstand court proceedings. (Indonesian prosecutors tried again in 2002, but physicians still insist that Suharto's unspecified "brain disease" is serious enough to prevent a trial.) Nonetheless, his family's representatives have vigorously denied the corruption charges, even going so far as to sue Time Asia over its muckraking story—a lawsuit that was dismissed for lack of evidence. That article was actually somewhat kind to Suharto, in that it pegged his family's fortune at the relatively lowball figure of $15 billion."
 
Last edited:
.
@prima99

I heard that he was gotten rid of by American using Radical Islamic Groups in Indonesia. Is it true????

nah he's not. the DI/TII (Darul Islam/Islamic Army of Indonesia) is a terrorist group wanting to overthrown the government for Syariah Ruling. they've been decimated long ago, though maybe some of their remnants maybe still lurking around. probably they're the creation of CIA as well, since Eisenhower is backing up the Permesta Rebels in Sumatra which failed.

Well it wouldn't have mattered even if we did give aid

How did Suharto steal $35 billion?

Mohamed Suharto has received a dubious honorfrom Transparency International, which named the former Indonesian president the most corrupt world leader of the past 20 years. With his family's takings estimated at between $15 billion and $35 billion, Suharto topped such notorious kleptocrats as Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines ($5 billion to $10 billion) and Nigeria's Sani Abacha ($2 billion to $5 billion). How did the longtime Indonesian strongman amass his wealth?

Through a system that his political opponents called KKN, the Indonesian acronym for "corruption, collusion, nepotism." Suharto handed control of state-run monopolies to family members and friends, who in turn kicked back millions in tribute payments. Those payments were usually cloaked as charitable donations to the dozens of foundations overseen by Suharto. Known as yayasans, these organizations were supposed to assist with the constructions of rural schools and hospitals but instead functioned as Suharto's personal piggy banks. Doling out millions to one of the foundations was simply part of the cost of doing business in Indonesia during much of Suharto's 32-year reign. Financial institutions were ordered to contribute a portion of their annual profits to a yayasan, for example, and wealthy Indonesians were expected to "tithe" a certain percentage of their salaries

The charitable foundations were only the tip of the KKN iceberg. In order to exploit Indonesia's natural resources, companies had to enlist the aid of a Suharto crony—usually one of his children—in order to get through the bureaucratic red tape. In return, the cronies expected an equity stake in the enterprise, without putting forth any monetary capital. When Jakarta's water system was privatized in the mid-1990s, for example, one of the winning bidders had to give Suharto's son, Sigit, 20 percent of the venture's shares. Sigit's involvement with the company amounted to showing up for the contract-signing ceremony.

Suharto and his clan also used services firms to siphon cash from larger companies. The most famous example concerns Pertamina, the state oil company. According to a 1999 exposé in Time Asia, Pertamina was forced to import and export its oil through two Suharto-family trading companies, which charged up to 35 cents a barrel for the service. Other Suharto-related companies enjoyed favorable contracts to provide the oil monopoly with everything from cafeteria food to insurance. When Pertamina's books were finally audited in July 1999, it was estimated that at least $6.1 billion had been stolen in this manner.

Suharto-affiliated companies could also borrow money from Bank Indonesia, the central bank, without paying back a dime. International accounting standards were pretty much ignored in Indonesia prior to Suharto's downfall in 1998, and there was little pressure on the nation's oligarchs to make good on their debt obligations.

Suharto made only token gestures toward combating corruption, and they were largely confined to the first decade or so of his rule. A 1977 program called "Operation Orderliness," for example, was supposed to curtail cronyism, but it ended up targeting only small-fry civil servants. Suharto was supposed to face trial in 2000, in relation to approximately $571 million he embezzled from the yayasans, but doctors ruled that he was too ill to withstand court proceedings. (Indonesian prosecutors tried again in 2002, but physicians still insist that Suharto's unspecified "brain disease" is serious enough to prevent a trial.) Nonetheless, his family's representatives have vigorously denied the corruption charges, even going so far as to sue Time Asia over its muckraking story—a lawsuit that was dismissed for lack of evidence. That article was actually somewhat kind to Suharto, in that it pegged his family's fortune at the relatively lowball figure of $15 billion."

exactly what i call by puppet leader installed by muricans to destabilize our country Big Time. Bill Clinton loves this guy so much.

Clinton Is The WorId's Leading Active War Criminal. Clinton's crimes, after just seven years in office, are competitive with Suharto's by Edward S. Herman

Clinton and Suharto

I put the adjective "active" in the title to this article because Indonesia's now retired president Suharto probably holds the overall top place today, as the person responsible for three genocides (Indonesia, East Timor, and West Papua). But Suharto had 33 years to carry out his crimes whereas Clinton has become competitive within 7 years. Who can doubt that if Clinton had more time to add to his mark in history he would easily top Suharto?

There are links between Suharto and Clinton. When Suharto visited Washington in 1995 a Clinton administration official was quoted in the New York Times as saying that Suharto was "our kind of guy." But it would be wrong to infer from this that the Clinton official was expressing approval of Suharto's mass murders; rather, he was saying that Suharto was easy to do business with in arranging trade deals and joint public relations statements. Still, it was quite clear that Suharto's murders and dictatorial rule were of little consequence to the Clinton leadership, not detracting significantly enough to make Suharto a "bad guy."
 
.
Well I get the two confused.

I give him a thumbs up for his call for the Netherlands to give up all their colonies (and the U.S. did put pressure on them to do so). But he went nuts when Malaysia wanted to be an independent country. It was just a huge downward spiral after that...Singapore bombings..guerrilla action in Malaysia...nationalizing of companies..pulling out of the UN.

So yes the U.S. cut off aid and he uttered his famous words.
 
.
@prima99

I heard that he was gotten rid of by American using Radical Islamic Groups in Indonesia. Is it true????

Soekarno get rid from Indonesian politics by Anti Communist Group in Army which is lead by Soeharto. Islamic Front in Universities (Himpunan Mahasiswa Muslim/ HMI) also become another major factor. Soekarno himself has been suspected by some anylist as one of a mastermind of Army generals (Anti Communist generals) killing as he said that "the event" is a minor one and something "usual" happening during "revolution." Juwono during the moment ( he was still university student in University of Indonesia) was surprised with Soekarno statement and he wrote the situation in hs article this year, August in Kompas newspaper.

r37572_93926.jpg

Juwono Sudarsono

Juwono Sudarsono - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Juwono Sudarsono (born Banjar Ciamis, West Java; 5 March 1942) is the author of well-respected works on political science and international relations. He was educated at the University of Indonesia, Jakarta (B.A., M.S.); The Institute of Social Studies, The Hague, Netherlands; the University of California, Berkeley, USA (M.A.) ; and the London School of Economics, UK (Ph.D.). He is currently an Emeritus Professor of the University of Indonesia.

He is the son of the late Dr. Sudarsono, who was Minister of Home Affairs and Minister for Social Affairs in late 1940s (Sjahrir II Cabinet). He served as head of the department of International Relations and Dean of the Faculty of Social and Political Sciences, University of Indonesia (1985-1994) and taught at The School of Public and International Affairs, Columbia University, New York City in 1986-87.

In public service, Juwono Sudarsono has served as Vice Governor of The National Defence College (Lemhannas), 1995-1998; Minister of State for the Environment under President Suharto, 1998; Minister of Education and Culture under President B.J. Habibie, 1998-1999; Minister of Defence under President Abdurrahman Wahid (the first civilian to occupy this position in 50 years), 1999-2000; Ambassador to the United Kingdom under President Megawati Soekarnoputri, 2003-2004; and Minister for Defence under President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, 2004-2009.
 
.
Clinton Is The WorId's Leading Active War Criminal. Clinton's crimes, after just seven years in office, are competitive with Suharto's by Edward S. Herman

I noticed that the article was dated 1999.

Since then, George W Bush and Dick Cheney have superseded Bill Clinton as bigger war criminals, IMHO. There was no good reason to get rid of Saddam Hussein.

Sure, Saddam was a dictator but he held Iraq together. I hate to say it but that country needs a dictator.

Now Iraq is splintered into three regions where its people are killing each other. Hundreds of thousands have died and millions are displaced. And ISIS came into existence.

Looking back, Bill Clinton looks like an angel compared to Bush and Cheney.
 
.
Well I get the two confused.

I give him a thumbs up for his call for the Netherlands to give up all their colonies (and the U.S. did put pressure on them to do so). But he went nuts when Malaysia wanted to be an independent country. It was just a huge downward spiral after that...Singapore bombings..guerrilla action in Malaysia...nationalizing of companies..pulling out of the UN.

So yes the U.S. cut off aid and he uttered his famous words.

because Malaysia were once part of Indonesia, or Nusantara as we call it. they're under the dog leash of english and we're more than willing to liberate them. turns out they loved their Master so much. we ended up fighting three englishmen in one place (UK, BoganLand, and NZ). don't forget that it was the english who raided Surabaya some years before our Independence. they are also the ones who brings the Dutch back into our land.

the rest of the events are just the way into Communism. we love our Communist friend and they love us, unlike some Eisenhower thug.

mao-zedong-22-1956-indonesian-president-sukarno.jpg


95t109.jpg


Fidel-Castro-berpeci.jpg


Kennedy is the only friend of Sukarno from Murica. things could've been better for the two countries. too bad he had to die because murican hates good guys.

JFKWHP-AR6536-E.jpg
 
.
Well it wouldn't have mattered even if we did give aid

How did Suharto steal $35 billion?

Mohamed Suharto has received a dubious honorfrom Transparency International, which named the former Indonesian president the most corrupt world leader of the past 20 years. With his family's takings estimated at between $15 billion and $35 billion, Suharto topped such notorious kleptocrats as Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines ($5 billion to $10 billion) and Nigeria's Sani Abacha ($2 billion to $5 billion). How did the longtime Indonesian strongman amass his wealth?

Through a system that his political opponents called KKN, the Indonesian acronym for "corruption, collusion, nepotism." Suharto handed control of state-run monopolies to family members and friends, who in turn kicked back millions in tribute payments. Those payments were usually cloaked as charitable donations to the dozens of foundations overseen by Suharto. Known as yayasans, these organizations were supposed to assist with the constructions of rural schools and hospitals but instead functioned as Suharto's personal piggy banks. Doling out millions to one of the foundations was simply part of the cost of doing business in Indonesia during much of Suharto's 32-year reign. Financial institutions were ordered to contribute a portion of their annual profits to a yayasan, for example, and wealthy Indonesians were expected to "tithe" a certain percentage of their salaries

The charitable foundations were only the tip of the KKN iceberg. In order to exploit Indonesia's natural resources, companies had to enlist the aid of a Suharto crony—usually one of his children—in order to get through the bureaucratic red tape. In return, the cronies expected an equity stake in the enterprise, without putting forth any monetary capital. When Jakarta's water system was privatized in the mid-1990s, for example, one of the winning bidders had to give Suharto's son, Sigit, 20 percent of the venture's shares. Sigit's involvement with the company amounted to showing up for the contract-signing ceremony.

Suharto and his clan also used services firms to siphon cash from larger companies. The most famous example concerns Pertamina, the state oil company. According to a 1999 exposé in Time Asia, Pertamina was forced to import and export its oil through two Suharto-family trading companies, which charged up to 35 cents a barrel for the service. Other Suharto-related companies enjoyed favorable contracts to provide the oil monopoly with everything from cafeteria food to insurance. When Pertamina's books were finally audited in July 1999, it was estimated that at least $6.1 billion had been stolen in this manner.

Suharto-affiliated companies could also borrow money from Bank Indonesia, the central bank, without paying back a dime. International accounting standards were pretty much ignored in Indonesia prior to Suharto's downfall in 1998, and there was little pressure on the nation's oligarchs to make good on their debt obligations.

Suharto made only token gestures toward combating corruption, and they were largely confined to the first decade or so of his rule. A 1977 program called "Operation Orderliness," for example, was supposed to curtail cronyism, but it ended up targeting only small-fry civil servants. Suharto was supposed to face trial in 2000, in relation to approximately $571 million he embezzled from the yayasans, but doctors ruled that he was too ill to withstand court proceedings. (Indonesian prosecutors tried again in 2002, but physicians still insist that Suharto's unspecified "brain disease" is serious enough to prevent a trial.) Nonetheless, his family's representatives have vigorously denied the corruption charges, even going so far as to sue Time Asia over its muckraking story—a lawsuit that was dismissed for lack of evidence. That article was actually somewhat kind to Suharto, in that it pegged his family's fortune at the relatively lowball figure of $15 billion."

The ability of not being too harsh with Soeharto and his family is something needed for Indonesia to have smooth transition into democratic country. Look at what is happening in Iraq, Libya, Egypt...?


Soeharto funeral

soeharto21.jpg


pemakaman_soeharto_1.jpg


rp-pr_1201488871_re_455x294.jpg
 
Last edited:
.
Two backward countries rules by two different western powers, what do you expect.
Also Malaya back then was using English (governance) system for decades before independent.

If you want to liberate, don't forget Southern Philipine (which they still claim Sabah state of Malaysia :coffee:)

because Malaysia were once part of Indonesia, or Nusantara as we call it. they're under the dog leash of english and we're more than willing to liberate them. turns out they loved their Master so much. we ended up fighting three englishmen in one place (UK, BoganLand, and NZ). don't forget that it was the english who raided Surabaya some years before our Independence. they are also the ones who brings the Dutch back into our land.
 
.
Two backward countries rules by two different western powers, what do you expect.
Also Malaya back then was using English (governance) system for decades before independent.

If you want to liberate, don't forget Southern Philipine (which they still claim Sabah state of Malaysia :coffee:)

they don't even exist during colonial era. also the European introduces backwardiness into the two lands as they intended to do in the first place. give the english props for bringing your people in for an everlasting racism.

Malaysia will always be using English system. don't forget it's Melayu Supremacy as the same as their master's White Supremacy.

and yes, let's unite the Southern Philippines. they were once vassal state of Majapahit, and to unite all Austronesians in the region.
 
.
meh, i am not fans of Colonialism by Western power in the past but like it or not, it was the European who introduces modern system at politics, governance, economics, education system, industry and so on, regardless their intention.
 
.
meh, i am not fans of Colonialism by Western power in the past but like it or not, it was the European who introduces modern system at politics, governance, economics, education system, industry and so on, regardless their intention.

those are for the Nobles. the locals gets Kultuurstelsel and "Kerja Rodi".
 
.
those are for the Nobles. the locals gets Kultuurstelsel and "Kerja Rodi".

not really, in facts so many lower class getting their first touch of political culture and western system education from them too, if not how can the so called "nobles" like Soekarno, Hatta, Muh Yamin and so on can share their idea of Revolution and Freedom to the lower class if the lower class (or the mass) doesn't know what happened around them. Education and information is the key, and it was the Western power (Dutch in Indonesia cases) who introduces modern society institution in to Nusantara sphere.

And i think, Soekarno is not anti Western Power per-se nor hate it so much, but the condition at the time forced him to make some decision, some for his own political gain at home and some for political show abroad
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom