Another ATR Plane Catches Fire During Take Off in Multan ( all grounded)

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am begining to suspect that this is someone's grand scheme to retire 4-5 planes and then force PIA to buy new planes and there would be comission involved or issue of disgruntle employee refusing to service the plane (Criminal Negligence) Mechanical department servicing the plane

Extremely odd that two planes of same type and same enjoy would suffer two major accident in matter of 3-4 days (No logical)

Common issue between both planes
> Engine problem (This plane does have to go thru some checks it seems the engines are decaying)

Same type of plane crash captured
Clearly the plane just seems to lose "Power" in many cases to engines the company making plane should be held liable

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

Previous Year i traveled from Karachi To Dera Ghazi Khan through ATR. I was coming back from Dubai to D. G Khan when i booked my ticket in dubai PIA office i told travel agency check schedule if any ATR flight that day don't give me ticket as i already traveled by this ATR with bad experience i will not go again with that plane he said ok i will change date you will fly by other plane next date not by ATR flight when i reached Karachi I have been told you wait your flight has been cancelled due to weather condition in D.G khan and you will go after 4 hours. when they took us by bus they leave us near old looking ATR that time me and some other people refused to go by that old plane to D.G Khan and protested there and refuse for boarding as all of us seen its wing was damage looking we told PIA staff our tickets are other plane we paid more fee but this is ATR we don't want to fly by this old aircraft you are playing with our lives then staff they requested all of us please don't waste your time come inside its safe its new aircraft you will go safely Insha Allah. upon again and again requests by staff, police and pilot we all people go inside by reciting Ayatul Kursi and all passenger abuses PIA staff you are putting our lives in danger why you are not putting other plane on our route? we are not Pakistanis? although we are from poor areas it does not mean you send us by old planes. if you are not giving us other plane then why charging tickets of other plane which is coming only one flight per week with costly tickets and you people sending us cheap and risky plane to die in air.

 

[MarkusS]

• On 15 October 1987, an Aero Trasporti Italiani (ATI) ATR 42–300 crashed on Conca di Crezzo, Italy during flight from Milan-Linate to Cologne Bonn Airport, Germany. All 37 on board died. Icing conditions existed.
• On 30 July 1997, Air Littoral Flight 701, an ATR 42–500, overran runway 23 at Peretola Airport in Italy after a flight from Nice Côte d'Azur Airport in France. One of the crew was killed out of the 3 crew and 14 passengers. The aircraft was written off in the accident.
• On 12 November 1999, Si Fly Flight 3275, an ATR 42-312 registration F-OHFV, was on a flight from Rome Ciampino Airport in Italy to Pristina International Airport Adem Jashari in Kosovo, operating on behalf of the UN. The aircraft crashed into a hill near Mitrovica in Serbia as it was making a turn to the left. The accident killed all 24 passengers and crew on board.
• On September 14, 2002, a Total Linhas Aéreas ATR 42-312 registration PT-MTS on a cargo flight between São Paulo-Guarulhos and Londrina crashed while en route near Paranapanema. The crew of two died.
• On 21 February 2008, Santa Barbara Airlines Flight 518 crashed in the Andes near Mérida, Venezuela, during a flight from Mérida to Simon Bolivar International Airport in Caracas. The aircraft was carrying 43 passengers and 3 crew. All died.
• May 8, 2008 – N904FX[29] and N905FX,[30] two parked ATR 42-320s, were written off after they suffered substantial damage at Piedmont Triad International Airport when the airport was hit by an EF2tornado.
• On 27 January 2009, an Empire Airlines ATR 42 freighter under contract to FedEx Express crashed on landing at Lubbock Preston Smith International Airport at 04:37 CT. The aircraft, which had been traveling from Fort Worth Alliance Airport, landed short of the touchdown zone and skidded off the runway amid light freezing rain. There was a small fire and two crew members were taken to the hospital with minor injuries.
• On 11 February 2010, Trigana Air Service Flight 168 made a forced landing in a paddy field near Bone, Indonesia. Two people were seriously injured.
• On 13 September 2010, Conviasa Flight 2350 crashed 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) west of Manuel Carlos Piar Guayana Airport, Ciudad Guayana, Venezuela, on a domestic scheduled passenger flight from Del Caribe "Santiago Mariño" International Airport, Porlamar, Isla Margarita.[32] Of 51 passengers and crew on board, 34 survived the accident while 17 died.
• On 19 October 2013, ATR 42-300 P2-PXY of Air Niugini suffered an engine fire on take-off from Madang Airport, Papua New Guinea. The take-off was rejected but the aircraft overran the runway and ended up in a creek. All three crew were injured and the aircraft was substantially damaged by the fire, which spread to the starboard wing.[33]
• On 16 August 2015, ATR 42-300 PK-YRN Trigana Air Service Flight 267 from Jayapura's Sentani Airport to Oksibil lost contact with air traffic control over the mountains in Irian Jaya (West Papua). The aircraft's wreckage was found by villagers in the Bintang highlands region of Oksibil. Local residents reported that they saw the plane crash into the mountain side. Stormy weather was cited as a possible cause of the crash. All 54 passengers and crew on board the flight died, making this crash the deadliest involving an ATR 42.[34]
• On 4 April 2016, a Batik Air Flight 7703 Boeing 737-800 was in the takeoff roll in Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, Jakarta, Indonesia when its left wing tip entangled with the vertical tail and left wing of a TransNusa Air Services ATR 42-600 crossing the runway under tow and separated the most of the vertical tail plane as well as the left wing from the ATR, with the left wing tank ruptured open. Both aircraft caught fire, and the Boeing was evacuated via slides. There were no injuries. However, both aircraft received substantial damage.[35]
• On 7 December 2016, PIA Flight 661 ATR 42-500 with registration AP-BHO crashed in Havelian in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, killing all 47 on board.[36] PIA Flight 661 was en route from the town of Chitral to Pakistani capital of Islamabad when it crashed into a mountain.[37]
• On 11 December 2016 Karachi bound PIA Flight 581 caught fire while taking off from Multan airport. The take was aborted and all the passengers were evacuated safely. Pakistan's Civil Aviation Authority immediately grounded the entire fleet of ATR aircrafts.

and? want to post about the 737 as well so others can see that?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

All ATR's should be shifted to some PAF base....where not a single PIA official be allowed to have any direct access. Than French team should be allowed to inspect the ATR's...i am 100% convinced that severe violations would be found in the maintenance and flight safety procedures.

CAA doesnt even let PALPA and Pak investigators near the wreckage.... corrupt to the core.

Previous Year i traveled from Karachi To Dera Ghazi Khan through ATR. I was coming back from Dubai to D. G Khan when i booked my ticket in dubai PIA office i told travel agency check schedule if any ATR flight that day don't give me ticket as i already traveled by this ATR with bad experience i will not go again with that plane he said ok i will change date you will fly by other plane next date not by ATR flight when i reached Karachi I have been told you wait your flight has been cancelled due to weather condition in D.G khan and you will go after 4 hours. when they took us by bus they leave us near old looking ATR that time me and some other people refused to go by that old plane to D.G Khan and protested there and refuse for boarding as all of us seen its wing was damage looking we told PIA staff our tickets are other plane we paid more fee but this is ATR we don't want to fly by this old aircraft you are playing with our lives then staff they requested all of us please don't waste your time come inside its safe its new aircraft you will go safely Insha Allah. upon again and again requests by staff, police and pilot we all people go inside by reciting Ayatul Kursi and all passenger abuses PIA staff you are putting our lives in danger why you are not putting other plane on our route? we are not Pakistanis? although we are from poor areas it does not mean you send us by old planes. if you are not giving us other plane then why charging tickets of other plane which is coming only one flight per week with costly tickets and you people sending us cheap and risky plane to die in air.

ATRs are turning into Fokkers..

 

[VCheng]

Same type of plane crash captured
Clearly the plane just seems to lose "Power" in many cases to engines the company making plane should be held liable

The captain shut down the wrong engine and caused this crash in Taiwan. It was not the fault of the aircraft.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The only time i travelled on an ATR to Quetta.

zhob airport

Shyt service... PIA turds issued me and another guy the same seat.... Lots of turbulance... Promised myself never again....

Now i travel on my own vehicle and take PIA flight unless absolutly nessecary.

 

[PakSword]

and? want to post about the 737 as well so others can see that?

I also wanted to compare ATR-42 with 737. But couldn't find number of flights Vs number of accidents data for both..

Edit: Found the data.. .


737: rate of accident is 0.27 per million flights
ATR 42 and 72: rate of accident is 0.40 per million flights

So 737 is still safer. And this data is till 2014 December.

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

The only time i travelled on an ATR to Quetta.

View attachment 359590

zhob airport

Shyt service... PIA turds issued me and another guy the same seat.... Lots of turbulance... Promised myself never again....

Now i travel on my own vehicle and take PIA flight unless absolutly nessecary.

same like this ATRs operating on D.G Khan route too. I feel sadness if in case any thing happens all poor people using this route to come and go for abroad of this region for the sake of earning for families but nobody giving attention this route i traveled 2 times next time make mind never will use this route .

 

[razgriz19]

All ATR's should be shifted to some PAF base....where not a single PIA official be allowed to have any direct access. Than French team should be allowed to inspect the ATR's...i am 100% convinced that severe violations would be found in the maintenance and flight safety procedures.

Of course. ATR is one of the safest aircraft out there. PIA is buying cheap and non air worthy parts. I guarantee you someone is making big bucks.

 

[VCheng]

737: rate of accident is 0.27 per million flights
ATR 42 and 72: rate of accident is 0.40 per million flights

So 737 is still safer. And this data is till 2014 December.

The full list is more informative:

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

Fatal crash rates per million flights
Model Rate Flights FLE* Events
Airbus A300** 0.61 6.55M 3.99 7
Airbus A300-600 0.33 6.09M 2.00 2
Airbus A300 (all models) 0.47 12.84M 6.01 10
Airbus A310** 1.34 4.76M 6.39 9
Airbus A320/318/319/321 0.11 84.62 9.61 14
Airbus A330 0.27 7.41M 1.99 2
Airbus A340** 0 3.03M 0 0
Airbus A380 0 UNK 0 0
ATR 42 and ATR 72 0.40 26.8M 10.81 13
Boeing 717** 0 UNK 0 0
Boeing 727** 0.50 77.05M 38.6 51
Boeing 737-100/200** 0.61 58.29M 35.44 49
Boeing 737-300/400/500** 0.15 73.68M 10.99 18
Boeing 737-600/700/800/900 0.08 60.87M 5.01 7
Boeing 737 (all models) 0.27 192.84M 51.44 74
Boeing 747-100/200/300/SP** 1.02 13.03M 13.23 26
Boeing 747-400** 0.06 7.78M 0.50 2
Boeing 747-8 0 UNK 0 0
Boeing 747 (all models) 0.66 20.81M 13.73 28
Boeing 757** 0.23 23.81M 5.4 8
Boeing 767 0.30 18.60M 5.50 6
Boeing 777 0.24 8.33M 2.01 3
Boeing 787 0 UNK 0 0
Boeing DC9** 0.58 62.84M 36.40 45
Boeing DC10** 0.64 9.25M 5.91 15
Boeing MD11** 0.39 2.59M 1.02 3
Boeing MD80/MD90** 0.26 45.16M 11.94 18
Bombardier Dash 8 UNK UNK 2.38 4
Canadair CRJ***** 0.26 8.11M 2.10 3
BAe146/RJ100** 0.41 10.92M 4.49 6
BAe Jetstream** UNK UNK 6.07 7
Concorde*** 11.36 0.09M 1.00 1
Dornier 228 UNK UNK 9.60 11
Dornier 328** UNK UNK 0.11 1
Embraer Bandeirante** 3.07 7.5M 23.00 28
Embraer Brasilia 0.71 7.4M 5.27 6
Embraer 170/190 0.04 10.34M 0.44 1
Fokker F28** 1.65 9.35M 15.45 21
Fokker 70/100** 0.17 10.83M 1.89 5
Lockheed L1011** 0.47 5.41M 2.54 5
Saab 340** 0.19 11.2M 2.10 3

 

[Signalian]

Any chance of possible corporate sabotage?

The planes are old.

 

[The Sandman]

@Zibago @django @Mentee @Moonlight @Hell hound

 

[third eye]

All ATR's should be shifted to some PAF base....where not a single PIA official be allowed to have any direct access. Than French team should be allowed to inspect the ATR's...i am 100% convinced that severe violations would be found in the maintenance and flight safety procedures.

I dont think airlies would play around with basics. However, I travel to tier two / three towns in India often . ATRs take me around & I have found them to be quite rugged and reliable.

The ATR is a very safe aircraft. I suspect bad service

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think this "wave" of sudden accident have to do with Service men not doing their Job , I think they might be trying to
Lower PIA's price to a lower Bargain rate so they can buy it in Privitization effort

Someone inside is forcing the crew to not service the planes these planes run world wide successfully even in North America in extreme cold weather

Odds of 3 Major issues reported in 1 week is Astronomical

1- ATR crash (2-3 days ago)
2 -ATR engine FIRE (Yesterday)
3- PIA london flight computer stopped working (Today)

Really such issues don't just happen at once in 1 Airline all of sudden

Prime Suspect , folks looking to BUY cheap (INSIDERS) pulling strings. For future privitization gain

• ATR might get sold , someone makes profit (Millions made by insider guy likely)
• New planes ordered , someone makes profit (Millions made by insider guy)

Or as I said it could be someonething big

In 2-3 Months time when Privitization effort start , use he accident as excuse to make a LOW bid for PIA with private conglomerate and but PIA for cheap

Could happen if it is somone in inside

May be they need to investigate where these 2 ATR went for service and repair ? Which group of Engineers looked after these Units were they same group or people ? And why their review did not spot the issues during regular servicing ?


A similar issue happened with Chinese Locomotives, and later after investigation or statement by Insider Railways worker it was found , the managers / management , started a practice of using
"OLD" used oil in Locomotives instead of fresh Oil during servicing.

Expected Behavior: Locomotive comes for Service you are suppose to Change oil and remove old oil used "dark color" heavy, and you are suppose to put golden color fresh oil to keep Locomotive running smoothly.

What Pakistan Railway Maintenence person was doing was they under the management order or shortages , were using "OLD" used oil which was extrated from Locomotives and reusing the same oil again this process caused heavy build up in engine and slowed down the Machinery of the Locomotive , causing over heat or melt down of the ENGINE PARTS.This was stated on air by workers of Railways openly they did not had funds to get new oil so they used shortcuts during the service of brand new locomotives

Reference to the Scandal from Zardari Gov

• Out of 92 Locomotives which each cost about 4 Million US Dollar , 52 were made unusable by the Service Team , due to Negligence of Management and workers. (Criminal Crime in Negligence in Engineering Practice)

Now while I don't claim to be Rocket Scientist however, viewing the issue from Engineering and Mechanical Prespective

Engines need Oil / Lubrication to work normally with out it their parts break and Jam due to overheating

• Engine -----> Over heating ---------> Parts of Engine Melt down-------> Fire due to heat or Crash / Shut down

The investigators should check this sudden rise carefully if any department is bending the corners a bit and doing something stupid like reusing used oil in Engines or if it is case of a bad engineer or group servicing the planes

The easiest way to Audit would be check the condition / Servicing quality in remaining ATR

 

[Mentee]

View attachment 359634
@Zibago @django @Mentee @Moonlight @Hell hound

As mentioned previously, someone wants to get these all grounded so that new ones would be bought or leased for some hefty kickbacks