Ancient Man and His First Civilizations.Proving Aryan Invasion Theory is a myth and severe lie

[Vinod2070]

Coming from a guy who doesn't know dif between vedic and hinduism. What cultural context? you don't even know yr religion

You are making a fool of yourself here.

थोथा चना बाजे घना.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have no prior knowledge about the topic being discussed.All I am willing to say is DNA testing will easily provide the definitive answer rather than any "analysis" by an expert who may or may not be biased.

So what does DNA analysis say about Aryan Invasion theory ?

BTW how does opposing AIT make someone Hindutva supporter(which I am not) and vice versa ?

Edit :New research debunks Aryan invasion theory | Latest News & Updates at DNAIndia.com





RIP AIT.Conclusive answer has been given.
Close thread/

Wonderful.

Not only no prior knowledge, but no effort at reading previous posts either. No idea, therefore, that there has been no question of Aryan, or Dravidian, being a race ever since the European racists whose ideas led to Hitler's holocausts were debunked and completely rejected. These research studies are effectively the equivalent of rushing at a closed door.

So what does DNA analysis tell us about the Aryan Invasion Theory? It depends on who is being told; the story is different, depending on the listener's point of view.

1. There are those listeners, who form a herd of believers, who don't have first-hand knowledge of what is being discussed. They get their information from propaganda pages, from distilled wisdom, not from study or reading of their own. They still think that historians are either with theories now a century and a half old, and discredited for more than half of that period, or that historians should be refuting it. They don't realise that as far as mass invasion of people is concerned, and a succession of bloody wars of ethnic cleansing is concerned, that account has been proven wrong long ago. They still think that serious historians believe Aryan and Dravidian to be race categories.
   
   For them, DNA testing shows that there is nothing different in racial categories, there is no Aryan race, there is no Dravidian race.
   
   Jubilation.
   
   A little premature because those of us who were unfortunate enough to have to learn our stuff the old-fashioned way knew this some decades ago.
   
   
2. There are those, masters of the first category, who are the real revisionists, not their groupies, who think that whatever the accounts given by research not conducted by Indians, there is no value to those, and only exclusively Indian research can be accepted. As a result, they lap up the studies of other revisionists - like every close-i, unaware that these studies are done in complete isolation from the academic community, and form a body of opinion not accepted anywhere in the world, after several decades of ardent endeavour by the advocates.
   
   They believe that Indians are one race - so far, so good - but they further believe that the culture and civilisation of this one race originated here, and culture and language spread from here outwards.
   
   To them, these DNA findings are just one more brick in their edifice. Not the complete edifice, but a part of it.
   
   
3. A third category consist of, broadly speaking, south Indians, those who might call themselves Dravidians, also unaware, like the first category, that neither Dravidian nor Aryan is a racial category.
   
   These people are hurt and mortified that a non-existent theory that they keep hearing about insists that all current Indian culture was imposed on the country and the sub-continent by an alien group, and that they themselves supposedly represent the beaten and cowed minority, who have lost their position of power in north India to some hypothetical overlords, and have been beaten back into the southern extreme of the peninsula to hold out as best as they may.
   
   They happen to be reacting to a very biased, racist account formulated during the most primitive period of analysis of India by colonial analysts.
   
   Why this kind of nonsense should bother people IS NOT clear.
   
   There is no serious historian or sociologist who thinks that present Indian culture is not derived from a union of religious, social and philosophical concepts brought in and found present in the Vedas and other early scriptures of the Indo-Aryan speaking immigrants, and those religious concepts, and social, philosophical and linguistic ideas which those immigrants found in the country. There is no thought that one race pushed away another race. Instead, there is an understanding that people stayed more or less where they were, that languages changed, as a more influential and perhaps politically more useful language came to the fore, and cultural customs, social customs and religion gave and took from each other, and were transformed into a generally united set of beliefs by centuries of interaction.
   
   This being the case, what remains to be resolved, through additional and sustained research, is merely which way the language flowed, and what was the precise process of Sanskritisation, and its effects on contemporary society and culture.

 

[bronxbull]

very 'poor' translation, if so you are entitled to produce the right translation which are available online.

The contention of the argument is whether Dravida refers to
a) race
b) language
c) region

based on Sankara's Advaita philosophy system of interpretation i.e Oneness, we can rightly conclude dravida sisu , includes all 3 (a, b, c) in One

I can call myself a brahmin girl,a tamil girl,an indian girl,south indian girl.......many things.

one word cant mean all of that and certainly not race,there was no cocnept of race then.

U r being silly to associate advaitam with a language,hahahaha.

u r a perfect half bake dude,like degree of 0.5.exact.

u r quite an exotic commodity,neither here nor there.

dhobi da kutta,na ghar ka na ghat ka.

language n region alright,i would say region only,language can also change,region cant.

whats the effect of sanskritization,just a linguistic construct and mixing of the languages called manipravalam.

 

[Fattyacids]

You are making a fool of yourself here.

थोथा चना बाजे घना.

But I rebutted you post after post, shruti is not smoothie ,

 

[Joe Shearer]

The highlighted is the key part.

I don't think so. That is a subsequent derivative of the discussion that flows from the original proposition.

We can safely ignore the Taiwanese pests on this thread who keep on making the same noise irrespective of the topic.

If you are referring to @faithfulguy , he is not one of my favourite posters, but he is making some pretty effective points. I think he should be heard, not abused.

The colonialists motives were clear from the outset in coming up with pathetic speculation which they used very effectively to divide the society and we are still paying the price.

This conflates two different bodies of thought: the first being the attempt to justify colonial domination of India per se, the second being to understand their own social structures and political and financial networks in Europe, and even in the world.

Then there are the spoys, the more loyal the king crowd, with their own political agenda that is the biggest drum beater of this theory.

I suppose you mean those of us who are opposed to the OOI theory, and believe that the AIT itself is flawed, and have evolved it to a better, more suited narrative. Your military metaphors are noted with interest; they might return at some future date. I note that you are now wholly in the ranks of the Hindutva crowd.

Now the colonialist minded academics don't have to do much, any opposing view is shouted down by the sepoys as coming from "Hindu fanatics", "fundamentalists", "right wingers", "Hindutwa" and so on.

Here we go.

Interesting to see how you practice what you preach. This seems to be a single-minded concentration on the interaction, and not on the facts of the discussion. Isn't that precisely what you complained against?

This shouting brigade (and their colonialist masters) never look at the merit of the argument, that is the beauty of it.

And it thinks entitled to their continuing domination of the narrative.

Sadly for them, their days of domination are coming to an end.

Quite a flourish, but what precisely did you add, besides a commentary on the way that the topic was discussed, rather than contributing to the discussion on the topic?

Is nt this gross disrespect to Hinduism ?
We know Hinduism has a lot of malpractices, but which religion does not ?
Does a few people blowing themselves in jihad mean Islam is goo ?
This bigot does not have any respect for other people's beliefs and is the first to call others fundoo.

I remember he was calling me a Internet Hindu and calling himself a secular in the same sentence when I first joined this forum, after I ruined his pseudo intellectual charade in some other thread.
His defence- term Internet Hindu was given by a Hindu so its perfectly ok to use it to insult Hindus.
Disgusting turd of a human.

If it pleases you to think that you won a famous victory, keep dreaming on. Good that you have such an excellent opinion of yourself. Someone has to, after all.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I believe that our respective ratings tell the tale in clear and direct terms.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just a name it means nothing.



It's a name, it's just label. The guy want to ask what kind of people are Pakistan. They're "Indian" with only the difference of religion. India (country) are not the same as THE India (geography). European Union (Political Organization) are not the same as Europe (geography).

When I said Pakistani are Indian is because they're culture remain that of Indian & their geographic location with only major differences between you two is religion.

Now back on topic are you still flip-flopping on the issues of the Aryans Invasion?

A better understanding is when we look at India in three separate ways - geographically, politically and culturally. The three spaces are not identical; cultural India is easily the largest of the three, followed by geographical India, and the smallest in extent is political India.

Because we are idiots?
I would not place my bets on AIT though. Genetics cannot be trumped by linguistic evidence. People inhabiting the subcontinent have been here since milinia, they did not come from anywhere except africa or the near east.

The baffling part is how people keep thinking of language families as synonymous with race. There is no question of genetics being trumped by linguistic evidence. The linguistic part of it deals exclusively with how a particular language travelled into India. The genetics deals with the composition of the people among whom it came to rest and within whom it grew, increasingly dominating the landscape.

lol its the reverse, don't you agree Taj Mahal is part of Islamic heritage ?

..


India is derived from Hindu , another identity given to you by the Muslims,

Errr, by the Persians, when they were not Muslims.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes.The origin is never easy to detect but we can form our assumption based on the frequency of this particular Y-DNA and compare it with Inner India and Eurasia or Central Asia. The philological studies and the religious affinities of early Rg Vedas with the ones in Baltic states do hint at a cultural crisscross in this region. Again this is a debatable issue and subjected to further studies and research.

Religious affinities of early Rg Vedas with the ones in Baltic states? Startling!!

I think I get what you mean, but you certainly chose to put it in a curious way.

Do you mean that all the references to flora and fauna in the Rg Veda deal with a common ecology which is to be seen in the Baltic states as well? If so, it is probably more prudent to consider the very large swathes of territory to which those indicative flora and fauna belong, swathes of territory covering a stretch between certain south Asian locations through parts of central Asia and ranging up to the shores of the Baltic.

There is one explanation covering the common mythology, but I can't believe you have spotted it. If it is not the explanation in the previous paragraph that you had in mind, would you share with us why you used that wording?

Dravidian is a geographical term,please go to any basic level anthropology forum and read about DNA haplo groups.

You ll see the racial links,All Indians have caucasoid/mongloid/weddid genes in varying proportions,i am a brahmin and i have weddid genes too,my husband is a bengali kayastha and he has weddid genes too,some people have more of one and less of another but barring some extremes,u cannot say this person is pure genetically,this is the basis,

None of the DK/DMK parties want to accept this primary fact,they still stick to theories and thats their and your fallacy.

rest of your post is composed of your assumptions and random ranting,the facts are this much from dna testing and simple.

I have more mongloid genes than many BC/OBC land owning/warrior castes like Maravar/Nadar/Udayar.

It is no big deal seriously,

if u want to be Joe Shearer 2.0,please go take an apprenticeship under him,dont waste our time here.

Dravidian a geographical term? Really? It is commonly accepted as the description for a language family, and is well defined in the literature.

Etymologically, it is derived from Dramil and Tamil. Not much geography involved.

Takes some time even to be Joe Shearer 0.2; try to get there first, before giving others who have pointed out your mistakes any cheeky advice. He makes more sense than you; but that's not saying much.

 

[KingMamba]

Chariots were used by the Romans, Greeks, Persians as well... Probably we also got it as a Transfer of Technology from the Aryan Nation in the Nordic Atlantis! For that matter wheel was also used all over the world - does not mean a particular race or people outsourced it

I can give a load of peer reviewed sources as evidence if you are interested.

Romans and Greeks got it from the Persians themselves.

how about using the Rig Veda as a possible source of evidence ?

You can't use religious books to reconstruct historical data. Most scholars of history will not accept it.

 

[SrNair]

So does Hinduism came from the outside, but you don't like them so you reject that Hinduism were partly created because of them. Whether you like it or not they are your History. Be they came from Invaders or other wise you must accept the truths

Hinduism dont come from outside.Before the Aryans Hinduism flourished in India in an early other forms.I already provide you about that link.
Stone Celt Axe Indus Sign Discovery in Mayiladuthurai, Tamil Nadu, India

Aryans influence change it .They influence an very high advanced civilization but also inject some evils in it.
You dont need to taught us about our history .We know our history.

 

[KingMamba]

Errr, by the Persians, when they were not Muslims.

Actually the Persians made up the word but it didn't become a widespread word to describe India until the Mughals began to use Hindustan to describe their dominions.

 

[bronxbull]

Religious affinities of early Rg Vedas with the ones in Baltic states? Startling!!

I think I get what you mean, but you certainly chose to put it in a curious way.

Do you mean that all the references to flora and fauna in the Rg Veda deal with a common ecology which is to be seen in the Baltic states as well? If so, it is probably more prudent to consider the very large swathes of territory to which those indicative flora and fauna belong, swathes of territory covering a stretch between certain south Asian locations through parts of central Asia and ranging up to the shores of the Baltic.

There is one explanation covering the common mythology, but I can't believe you have spotted it. If it is not the explanation in the previous paragraph that you had in mind, would you share with us why you used that wording?



Dravidian a geographical term? Really? It is commonly accepted as the description for a language family, and is well defined in the literature.

Etymologically, it is derived from Dramil and Tamil. Not much geography involved.

Takes some time even to be Joe Shearer 0.2; try to get there first, before giving others who have pointed out your mistakes any cheeky advice. He makes more sense than you; but that's not saying much.

Tamil is as much a geographical term as much as it is linguistic,same with Malayalam.

The geographical limits of Tamil Country is also well defined and that includes present day Kerala too.

Now u can include Telugu/Kannada also in it and call it dravidian.

I have read many sangam epics and they never talk of anything beyond the current borders.

I am not interested in how the Europeans see Indian people and how they classify us,they can never belong,can only comment from outside,

They like to compare India to the countries they colonized in Africa & South America,their analysis is too empirical and i have too much self respect unlike you to accept their trash as anything worthwhile.

Let us try to be objective here,saying this was accepted by that guy and those people makes no sense.

and yeah u can take him as ur apprentice,i guess i did something useful by segregating all the useless folks together.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Hinduism dont come from outside.Before the Aryans Hinduism flourished in India in an early other forms.I already provide you about that link.
Stone Celt Axe Indus Sign Discovery in Mayiladuthurai, Tamil Nadu, India

Aryans influence change it .They influence an very high advanced civilization but also inject some evils in it.
You dont need to taught us about our history .We know our history.

Early also means Primitive. As in not the final products. No Aryan, No contemporary Hinduism. You can't deny that basic fact.

Keep your evil to yourself we don't discuss Morality rather Historical facts. The Aryan does not simply injects something to Hindu they add to it for instance the Caste Systems to the Pantheons you worship those are Aryans legacy to Hinduism. Whether you like it or not that is considered Hindu.

 

[bronxbull]

Actually the Persians made up the word but it didn't become a widespread word to describe India until the Mughals began to use Hindustan to describe their dominions.

Hindi is the name of this tectonic plate.

 

[KingMamba]

Hindi is the name of this tectonic plate.

LOL now I have to teach you where the word comes from too?

 

[bronxbull]

please go ahead.