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Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

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Your language us getting more abusive, and with the personal insults, you have already lost the debate.

Your ridiculous posts are simply exposing your inability to accept naked facts.


The argument is very simple, Let non Indian researchers work on so called Indian sites and we will see. Currently its only Indians writing the journals and presenting their so called facts, which usually leads to imaginary links with Hinduism. Thats the Agenda right there, and you cant even hide it. The frustrations is really visible now.

Thats bullshit. Stop imagining an imaginary agenda. Your paranoia is what is frustating.

Indian finds have been verified and upheld in international academic circles. If its good enough for the foreign archaeologists, its good enough for me.

If its not good enough for you, then too bad.

Please keep this debate clean, You are dismissing my points with claims that, I dont know the slightest thing about this and that. I do know about archaeology, and the Indians living in the city in 1450 IS being considered as an ancient part of Dholavira.

I am not dismissing your points. I am merely pointing out the fact that you are simply refusing to believe that actual archaeology was done at the site.


You are assuming that some saffron robed dudes found a brick wall, gave it an arbitrary date and named it IVC.


Rest assured, the standards of the ASI are better than that. Perhaps Pakistani research is done that way, but not in India.
 
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You mean Dr. Gupta's 500 IVC sites along the Ghaggar-Hakra riverbed was not published in an Indian academic paper? :agree:

Gupta, S. P. (ed.) (1995). The lost Sarasvati and the Indus Civilisation. Jodhpur: Kusumanjali Prakashan.

Is not Kusumanjali Parkashan an academic journal from Jodhpur, India? This link says it is an academic publication on historical stuff in India though..Surely not!

Indica et Buddhica - Scholia: Search Interface Result for Publisher = Kusumanjali.,

So? Its an academic paper.

Have you got any sources that dispute that claim?


Stop nit-picking one claim and consider all the others before dismissing the whole body of Indian research as a sham.
 
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Huh? He came to India. He saw the sites. He met his Indian counterparts. He verified their work.

He also gave the interview.

Didn't you read the article? If you didn't read it, then please do so, otherwise kindly refrain from posting.

Why lie about such an obvious thing which you posted in the first place? :cheesy:

Here is a direct copy & paste lifted from your post about what the French archaeologist said:

"The work we have been conducting on the western side of the Indus and all the work done by Indian archaeologists on the eastern side are giving us a much more comprehensive picture."
Brahminism's new archeological evidence suggests that history of civilisation dates to Rig Vedic people (your source is even written by an Indian)

i.e The French dude only did work on the West side of the Indus. That is to say on settlements such as Mehargh, Naushera, Harappa and so on. By the Eastern side, presumably he means within India, all the work was done by Indians. In other words, the French archaeologist did not verify any of the Indian claims :cheesy:
 
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This discussion seems to have run aground........I recommend every take a break and come back later.......
 
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Indian finds have been verified and upheld in international academic circles. If its good enough for the foreign archaeologists, its good enough for me.

The French guy did not verify the Indian finds. He worked on sites in Pakistan. Find me one eminent archaeologist that's agreed with the 500 sites along the Gagghar-Haraka riverbed, or the claims you're making that the IVC was located mainly in India. Just one. I've been asking this for about 10 hours now. So far you've managed to quote one Hindu convert with no qualifications writing on a site, and one French archaeologist that admits he never worked on an Indian site, only on Pakistani sites. Just one will do. Please? Pretty please!
 
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Why lie about such an obvious thing which you posted in the first place? :cheesy:

Here is a direct copy & paste lifted from your post about what the French archaeologist said:

"The work we have been conducting on the western side of the Indus and all the work done by Indian archaeologists on the eastern side are giving us a much more comprehensive picture."

i.e The French dude only did work on the West side of the Indus. That is to say on settlements such as Mehargh, Naushera, Harappa and so on. By the Eastern side, presumably he means within India, all the work was done by Indians. In other words, the French archaeologist did not verify any of the Indian claims :cheesy:

He gave the interview in New Delhi, India, where he visited the sites and read the papers written by Indians.

How stupid do you think he is buddy. Considering his eminence, he probably has an IQ of 130-140.

I'm sure he won't get fooled by false claims.

If he did get fooled by hindutva propaganda, I doubt if his excavations in pakistan are of any significance, since he may be incapable of interpreting his finds in the right manner.
 
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He gave the interview in New Delhi, India, where he visited the sites and read the papers written by Indians.

How stupid do you think he is buddy. Considering his eminence, he probably has an IQ of 130-140.

I'm sure he won't get fooled by false claims.

If he did get fooled by hindutva propaganda, I doubt if his excavations in pakistan are of any significance, since he may be incapable of interpreting his finds in the right manner.

So you admit, he did not do any of the work on the "IVC" sites in India. Then what you were saying before, that the French archaeologist worked on the excavations in India, is incorrect. This guy is just foolishly trusting the Bharati excavators' data, a lot of whom no doubts are Hindutva. Thanks for correcting yourself. Now take a break like Keyser suggests, you obviously are not thinking straight.
 
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The French guy did not verify the Indian finds. He worked on sites in Pakistan.

He has visited both countries and done extensive work on the subject for the last 30 years.

He is probably much smarter than you are and capable of making better judgements than you.

Find me one eminent archaeologist that's agreed with the 500 sites along the Gagghar-Haraka riverbed, or the claims you're making that the IVC was located mainly in India. Just one. I've been asking this for about 10 hours now.

I didn't mention the veracity of 500 sites being found anywhere. That was a quote by Agnostic Muslim which I even I was surprised by.


I never claimed that IVC is mainly in India. Another white lie by you.

Please read my posts carefully before commenting.



So far you've managed to quote one Hindu convert with no qualifications writing on a site, and one French archaeologist that admits he never worked on an Indian site, only on Pakistani sites. Just one will do. Please? Pretty please!

Bullshit argument.

The "Hindu Convert's" article has a good list of sources of foreign names and papers. the views in the article aren't hers, but collected from different sources. But obviously you didn't read the article carefully and therfore jumped to conclusions.


The French archaeologist has visited both countries, verified the work, and is thus speaking with the authority of an expert. His words are to be taken seriously.


He is not a naive child to be fooled by cheap frauds.

I have given references from most common sites on the subject, and they all mention the Indian excavations as important finds.

I have posted details of the sites along with pictures and renderings.

If you refuse to accept cold facts, then so be it.
 
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So you admit, he did not do any of the work on the "IVC" sites in India. Then what you were saying before, that the French archaeologist worked on the excavations in India, is incorrect. This guy is just foolishly trusting the Bharati excavators' data, a lot of whom no doubts are Hindutva. Thanks for correcting yourself. Now take a break like Keyser suggests, you obviously are not thinking straight.


Right, so the stupid frenchie got fooled by hindutva propaganda.

I'm sure if a man of his intelligence got fooled, rest assured the whole world will follow his footsteps as well :enjoy:


But seriously, you should think straight before doubting the words of an eminent archaeologist with little or no archaeological background yourself, especially when its his work that you are relying on to interpret a lot of Pakistani finds.



I never said that he worked in India, so the question of correcting anything doesn't arise. As usual, you are not reading my posts properly.
 
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He has visited both countries and done extensive work on the subject for the last 30 years.

Visting India, does not mean taking part in the data finding. What papers has he written about his excavations in India? None, because the Indian government does not let foreign researchers work on the sites in India that will not tow the line.

He is probably much smarter than you are and capable of making better judgements than you.

I realize that you cannot find an article by a neutral researcher, but no need to get personal. The French guy is probably just being diplomatic and accepting what the Indian excavators say. That is how research is done. You don't accuse until you have evidence, else there will be repurcussions. It does not mean that the French guy is stupid, he's just diplomatic.


I didn't mention the veracity of 500 sites being found anywhere. That was a quote by Agnostic Muslim which I even I was surprised by.

The 500 sites was a quote by an Indian researcher called Dr Gupta, who got his work published in a major Indian academic publication. It's something most neutral researchers would laugh at.

I never claimed that IVC is mainly in India. Another white lie by you.

Well I was short on time. Quote me one researcher that claims the Indian sites are anything like on the same scale as Mohenjendaro or Harrapa or the Pakistani sites. Virtually none of the Indian sites except Lothal which was a port, not a city have much creditibility in the eyes of the world (read: foreign researchers).

Please read my posts carefully before commenting.

Your posts have been read. Yet you don't seem to read my posts asking for 1 foreign, neutral (non Indian) researcher to verify the claims of the Indian excavators.

Bullshit argument.

The "Hindu Convert's" article has a good list of sources of foreign names and papers. the views in the article aren't hers, but collected from different sources. But obviously you didn't read the article carefully and therfore jumped to conclusions.

If you read the "Hindu convert's" article virtually all is about the Pakistani sites of Harrapa and Mohenjendaro. Have a read. Perhaps that is why all the references are of foreign researcher origin. If they're as you say they are, quote me one foreign researcher that has been excavating and collecting data from an Indian site. Just one.


The French archaeologist has visited both countries, verified the work, and is thus speaking with the authority of an expert. His words are to be taken seriously.

He has no verified the work. He only took part in a conference, of which he relayed his own work - that of his own excavations and data from west of the Indus. That is what your article says. The French guy did not collect data from within India.

He is not a naive child to be fooled by cheap frauds.

He's not, but you seem to lap it up because it's suits your beliefs/agenda.

I have given references from most common sites on the subject, and they all mention the Indian excavations as important finds.

Read this carefully. You have not given me 1 single reference by a foreign (non Indian) researcher to verify the data obtained by the Indian researchers. I have given you several from the Pakistani sites (and so have you like the frenchman!), which reassures me of te validity of the Pakistani work.

I have posted details of the sites along with pictures and renderings.

If you refuse to accept cold facts, then so be it.

What do the renderings mean, and how is a rendering a cold hard fact. Joke of the century..milenium even.
 
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Right, so the stupid frenchie got fooled by hindutva propaganda.

I'm sure if a man of his intelligence got fooled, rest assured the whole world will follow his footsteps as well :enjoy:

The French archaeologist was just present at a conference. He did not endorse the findings of the Indians. He just mentioned them, and it doesnt even look like he agreed with their ideas of renaming stuff and so on. Show me where in that article the French archaeologist says that he verified the Indian data.


But seriously, you should think straight before doubting the words of an eminent archaeologist with little or no archaeological background yourself, especially when its his work that you are relying on to interpret a lot of Pakistani finds.

He personally did the excavation from the Pakistani finds. All the data such as the carbon dating (which isn't very accurate anyway), were done by him and his colleagues. This is neutral. I would trust his results since he has no vested interests. Can i say the same about radiocarbon dating done by a lab in India on IVC, no way. They have vested interests and are not neutral, and Indian researchers have a prior history of concocting fake results to suit agendas such as some examples I've given previously.


I never said that he worked in India, so the question of correcting anything doesn't arise. As usual, you are not reading my posts properly.

He didn't work on any of the Indian IVC sites, that's correct. Therefore he did not collect and analyze any of the data from the Indian sites. Therefore the Indian researchers collected all the data, and did the analysis. No independent verification has been done. Until I see independent, neutral, foreign researchers being allowed to collect and analyze data from Indian archaeological sites, why should I believe any of the Indian sites are genuine, given the track record of Indian researchers in making up lies on IVC?
 
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A comprehensive and updated map of the Indus-Saraswati Sites:

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^^Above map shows the all major sites in India as well, including Lothal, Dholavira, Kalibangan, Banavali and Rakhigarhi.

IT also shows the major sites in Pakistan including Mohenjodaro, Chanhu Dero, Ganweriwala, Harappa and pre-harappan site Mehrgarh

Also shows the sites along the now dry Saraswati river or Ghaggar-Hakra River.

RR, your post about the 500 sites along the Saraswati is shown here...there seem to be plenty of minor sites along the Ghaggar-Hakra bed.....

Also a major chunk along the Saraswati is in Pakistan, so obviously not excavated by Indian researchers.

Looks like Dr. Gupta's 500 isn't as far from reality as we thought eh?

 
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