America Withholds Spares For Turkish F16s

[Jigs]

Woman recieved equal rights?Jigs you are delusional mate.Even men had no right those days,what women about are you talking?

You know the ones that had the right to vote before European nations. You do know that right ? We had female MPs in office before the french did.

I think your just clueless. Maybe read some books on the topic ?

im shocked at your thoughts.people knew that they were Turks or Kurds etc
they didnt have to die just because their ethnicities,you know.

Of course they don't I don't support the killing of any race of people.

also the progress in art/science/literature didnt happen.if it happened we would see its effects.oopss im sorry,ataturk did it but people after him didnt,right

i wish you dont get fooled by the kemalist bs.i wish it for your own good.

No friend i think you need to get with the picture and look at what our country was founded on and start making some sense. We have immense growth during that period i can't believe your saying none of that happened. The literacy rate by the time Ataturk had almost tripled amongst males and doubled amongst women.

Here is a short excerpt you should read.

The scope and depth of the reforms instituted in Turkey in the span of ten years is truly breathtaking. No other country on Earth has ever attempted to achieve so many profound changes in political, economic, cultural and social spheres and none succeeded in completely transforming itself within such a short time. The abolition of the monarchy and the caliphate (that is the religious leadership of the Muslim world), the banning of religious lodges that had impeded progress for centuries, the secularization of the society, the revolutions in the fields of education and dressing, the switch to the Latin alphabet and the Gregorian calendar, the introduction of Western units of weight and other measurements, the adoption of modern laws based on the European models, the granting of suffrage to women, as well as other reforms, raised Turkey into the ranks of the most advanced contemporary nations, and, as in the case of women’s rights, even put it ahead of them.

So i will state once again your are clueless or ignorant to what took place. It is quite sad i am even lecturing you on history every Turk should know. But alas i believe i have to.

 

[ovarel]

are you reading my posts?or spouting kemalist bs?

the funny thing is you are still talking about womens right to vote.even men had no right to vote.lets make it having right to vote Mustafa kemal.the elections were just a theatre which doesnt include anyone but Kemal.

you arent supporting kiiling people because of their race,right?but im sure you have an excuse for dersim massacre,denying kurds etc

the literacy rate isnt about ataturk.in that time,greece also doubled its rate,was it because of ataturk too?time changed my friend.

you are not teaching me history,you are telling me kemalist tales that i have heard 1000 times.but when i got 11 years old,i stopped believing in tales.

tooth fairy isnt real too

 

[Saithan]

Calm yourselves. You both know that Turkey has had good leaders and bad ones. and that is how things work. If we only had good leaders we'd be a nation free of internal strifes.

I don't agree on all the BS "kemalists" spew, nor do I jump on the bandwagon of AKP. However you have to realise that times change. Yes Turkey is secular and should remain secular. This means that no religion has administrative authority, which is why "imam nikah" nor will marriages done by priests be legalized.

I believe that the military is protector of secularity, but I will not rule out that treasonous bastards have found their way up to a position of power. And they need to be punished.

The military needs transparency as well as other things in turkey. A transparent military who upholds the secularism of turkey would be much stronger than it is now.

 

[ovarel]

we had too much off-topic posts.but i have to remind that its not about kemalism vs AKP.we discussed kemalisms history and i think i expressed my point of view clearly.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Telling me my personal views disqualify me as a debater is quite the hypocritical remark you should understand not all people are going to have the same view as you in Turkey especially not secularists

Which part of my post was hypocritical? Defending women's right to attend to universities? Hmmm.. I think in a democratic country where more than 70% of the population supports wearing hijab in universities, makes your ideas look like some hardcore totalitarian regime supporter. Good god that we dont have people like you who sit in power any longer.

It is amazing that you have the courage to present all those military equipment Turkey is producing while totally ignoring that most of them were as a result of the AKP governments reforms and support for indigenious industry. Also ignoring that just 10 years ago our country was on the verge of collapsing and counted as a third world country while today our country thrives in every field, and counted as a major regional power. One has to be totally ignorant to not see these changes. Or just a supportor of backwardness and inequality.

"You can't enter the university because u wear headscarf"
"why?"
"because it is a political symbol"
"i wear headscarf because i am muslim not because i want to politicize it"

You see, this is called hypocrisy, inequality and inhumanity.

 

[Jigs]

Which part of my post was hypocritical? Defending women's right to attend to universities? Hmmm.. I think in a democratic country where more than 70% of the population supports wearing hijab in universities, makes your ideas look like some hardcore totalitarian regime supporter. Good god that we dont have people like you who sit in power any longer.

It is amazing that you have the courage to present all those military equipment Turkey is producing while totally ignoring that most of them were as a result of the AKP governments reforms and support for indigenious industry. Also ignoring that just 10 years ago our country was on the verge of collapsing and counted as a third world country while today our country thrives in every field, and counted as a major regional power. One has to be totally ignorant to not see these changes. Or just a supportor of backwardness and inequality.

"You can't enter the university because u wear headscarf"
"why?"
"because it is a political symbol"
"i wear headscarf because i am muslim not because i want to politicize it"

You see, this is called hypocrisy, inequality and inhumanity.

I don't think you want to even try to debate. Your quoting all the wrong areas of my posts.

Now for the equipment part. This has been ongoing since the arms embargo imposed by the U.S. over the Cyprus conflict. Also during the initial founding of the Turkish Republic it was much higher. We had a number of indigenous developments in the 90s too. Also in the late 80s which was when we started rolling out locally assembled F-16s. A first since the old days when we produced our own aircraft. You only have to look at my post history to know i am against backwardness. Especially those that stem out of religious ideologies.


I think we should return to the topic of the thread. Considering it is about F-16s and this is the Turkish Defence section. We can agree to disagree on these matters.

 

[tigerincage]

wrong move

 

[damm1t]

I am an akp supporter, kemalist and nationalist, well-educated and have a well-positioned job.. a kemalist because of my ataturk love and respect, to be kemalist doesnt mean to be a unbeliever, reversly many kemalist people are religious.. no one can pass beyond my ataturk love in this point i am a nationalist as much as i can go to death blind for it. i am sure you guys all have seen many gov's and coalition in this country.. dinasaurs like ciller, yılmaz, erbakan, baykal, bahceli.. for me ( this is not an arguable point ) Erdogan government is one of the most succesful govs. i ask you guys, this is a defence forum, before this government, what achievement we had to show up proudly.. doubtful we could even start to do something.. this country always being occupied with artificial agendas like turban, kurds. Its a time to overcome them all.. We are talking about human rights, so let people educate freely.. its time to focus on real things.. even here we are discussing who is better chp or akp.. but i want you notice that before all elections, surveys say that akp votes decrease, other parties increase.. after elections we see that akp got half of the votes.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I am an akp supporter, kemalist and nationalist, well-educated and have a well-positioned job.. a kemalist because of my ataturk love and respect, to be kemalist doesnt mean to be a unbeliever, reversly many kemalist people are religious.. no one can pass beyond my ataturk love in this point i am a nationalist as much as i can go to death blind for it. i am sure you guys all have seen many gov's and coalition in this country.. dinasaurs like ciller, yılmaz, erbakan, baykal, bahceli.. for me ( this is not an arguable point ) Erdogan government is one of the most succesful govs. i ask you guys, this is a defence forum, before this government, what achievement we had to show up proudly.. doubtful we could even start to do something.. this country always being occupied with artificial agendas like turban, kurds. Its a time to overcome them all.. We are talking about human rights, so let people educate freely.. its time to focus on real things.. even here we are discussing who is better chp or akp.. but i want you notice that before all elections, surveys say that akp votes decrease, other parties increase.. after elections we see that akp got half of the votes.

I do 100% support the above statement. I respect that as a kemalist you respect AKP and religious freedom. And you accept that before AKP came to power our country was rueld by the apes you have mentioned above (baykal, bahceli, etc.) and we have seen how their governments brought Turkey into one of the worst crisis the country has ever experienced. Yet some forumers in here continues insisting that our defense industry is a continuing development, while closing their eyes to the current developments which is 100 times comparing it to the former governments.

Sen iste gercekleri gören bit Türksün, senin gibilere ihtiyac var o güzel ülkemde, helal!

 

[Babur Han]

I do 100% support the above statement. I respect that as a kemalist you respect AKP and religious freedom. And you accept that before AKP came to power our country was rueld by the apes you have mentioned above (baykal, bahceli, etc.) and we have seen how their governments brought Turkey into one of the worst crisis the country has ever experienced. Yet some forumers in here continues insisting that our defense industry is a continuing development, while closing their eyes to the current developments which is 100 times comparing it to the former governments.

Sen iste gercekleri gören bit Türksün, senin gibilere ihtiyac var o güzel ülkemde, helal!

In Turkey we have a major Problem with the Party Leaders, which rule their Parties like Sultans and supress their internall Opposition within the Party. Also the Success of Parties relying only on their Leader, not on the Programm of the Party. You mentioning the Succes of AKP during their Rule, but you forget that they rely on a Leader like Erdogan !

I'm sure that turkish Parties would work more efficient, if they would rely more on their Party Programm than on their Leader !