America Withholds Spares For Turkish F16s

[Jigs]

hmmm... I was under the impression that Turks had full transfer of tech regarding F16s... thanks for the above post Jigs...

No country including Israel has full technology transfer for F-16s. Even Israel has to work out their upgrades and new parts through U.S. companies responsible for them.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Kılıçdaroğlu is a serious powerhouse though. Remember the debates he had on T.V. a while back with AKP members ? Two of them ended up resigning after those debates.

Jigs it is as if you are unable to comprehend how much CHP the last several decades has damaged Turkey. Their strategy has without a doubt been, what political scientists call, office-seeking, they, for the most part, seek office goods, rather than policy-seeking, which is really powerful in Erdogan's government.

The primary reason to why Turkey has for decades after decades failed in politics was being unable to constitute a strong democracy and government. Our former governments were for the most coalition based which is highly ineffective in a semi-democratic country like Turkey, especially when the military constantly affects politics.

One good step the AKP government has taken in their time is, reducing the Military's influence in politics (Dogu Calisma Grubu in the military whose primary goal was to eliminate populist organization, and label them as radical islamist to jail, or worse look at JITEM's past and their unjustified killings).

To understand and develop turkish politics one must look at the whole picture. And i really doubt that a party like CHP can be productive, on the contrary i am pretty sure their policies will turn us towards chaos and discrimination again. Where universities operate based on ideologies rather than education, this is pretty apparant when you look at the quality of our universities. Where people with specific religious faiths are forbidden to enter them. I wont be surprised if you (JIGS) support such an action, because that is a part of the CHP ideology.

 

[Saithan]

No need to use a hard language like that. We're all entitled to have our own opinions, but we should also have an open mind to different way of thinking.

Mainly because we are different and see the benefits and disadvantages differently.

I am not sure on CHP because they are "dönelek" in my opinion. However If we look at it from a broad perspective. It's still hard to say what they support that AKP doesn't support already.

Although recently it seems Erdogan has used football in some kind of political agenda or whatever. To which the football fans has demonstrated, and that is fine. I am not sure what kind of a response the PM gave to the demonstration, but knowing his temper it probably wasn't one of humility or apology.

Which, if it's the case, is pretty stupid.

 

[Jigs]

Jigs it is as if you are unable to comprehend how much CHP the last several decades has damaged Turkey. Their strategy has without a doubt been, what political scientists call, office-seeking, they, for the most part, seek office goods, rather than policy-seeking, which is really powerful in Erdogan's government.

My opinion is that AKP have done far more to damage Turkey in the eyes of the world then CHP ever did. They are full of empty talk and nothing more. Many of Erdogan's heated speeches are nothing more then blowing smoke as was the case after the MM raid. In general the politics of Turkey have been quite childish. This has been magnified by some of the ridiculous policies of the AKP. Who have so far barred and damaged the Media or anyone that speaks out against them. Hurt our military with this ridiculous coup ordeal (i highly doubt anyone is even going to be found guilty since evidence is almost non existent)
Also article 301 which resulted in something similar to the blasphemy law on nationalism. Also don't forget the recent law these failures have passed which release people from jail after 5-10 years if they have not faced trial yet which they in turn made so broad no one even knows how the hell to interrupt it. Do you know how many terrorists and criminals have now been set free because of this idiotic enactment. The Turkish Hizbollah is running wild now and the police can't even keep track of the members released. Also our judicial officials are now being monitored by the ruling party.

Thanks to the AKP

People like these are now free in Turkey and i wonder which party they will support.

The primary reason to why Turkey has for decades after decades failed in politics was being unable to constitute a strong democracy and government. Our former governments were for the most coalition based which is highly ineffective in a semi-democratic country like Turkey, especially when the military constantly affects politics.

The military had to constantly get involved with politics because we had many cases of parties trying to change the principals of what Turkey was founded on. This is unacceptable and the military is there to upload all secular values. We are a young country when it comes to governmental affairs so the Military has to get involved. While i feel sometimes they did bring their own ideals into it it was for the greater good of the country.

One good step the AKP government has taken in their time is, reducing the Military's influence in politics (Dogu Calisma Grubu in the military whose primary goal was to eliminate populist organization, and label them as radical islamist to jail, or worse look at JITEM's past and their unjustified killings).

To understand and develop turkish politics one must look at the whole picture. And i really doubt that a party like CHP can be productive, on the contrary i am pretty sure their policies will turn us towards chaos and discrimination again. Where universities operate based on ideologies rather than education, this is pretty apparent when you look at the quality of our universities. Where people with specific religious faiths are forbidden to enter them. I wont be surprised if you (JIGS) support such an action, because that is a part of the CHP ideology.

Weakening the Turkish Military is not a step in the right direction or any of those laws i stated above CHP was cold and calculating and they made logical decisions and these were not always popular but in line with our ideals . Also i have made clear i support bans on religious clothing in Universities in Turkey. They are secular establishments of government and for that reason have laws that need to be followed. If people feel that strongly about their religion they can attend religious schools. I could care less for people who hold their religion higher then their reality and a proper education and that is my personal opinion. They are however not forced they do have a choice in the matter.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Also i have made clear i support bans on religious clothing in Universities in Turkey. They are secular establishments of government and for that reason have laws that need to be followed. If people feel that strongly about their religion they can attend religious schools. I could care less for people who hold their religion higher then their reality and a proper education and that is my personal opinion. They are however not forced they do have a choice in the matter.

This is more than enough. It tells pretty much about your religious toleration. Sure, this could be established in a non-tolerant communist regime, but a country which principles are based on democracy and liberal values, banning religious people attending universities is against those very ethics.
Who said these people hold their religion higher than education or vice versa? Is it impossible for a Muslim woman to strive for education? I think this thinking of yours disqualifies you as a serious debater.
It is simply unreasonable to ban hijab in a country whose population majorily (about 98%) consists of Muslims.

 

[bubli]

Post it in Military Forum Section or Turkey Defence.

american are not anybody friend

 

[ovarel]

As we can see,all the problems of Turkey are based on kemalism.Hijab problem,Kurdish problem etc.

kemalist ideology considers them as "problems".In reality they are not problem at all.That simple...

 

[Jigs]

This is more than enough. It tells pretty much about your religious toleration. Sure, this could be established in a non-tolerant communist regime, but a country which principles are based on democracy and liberal values, banning religious people attending universities is against those very ethics.
Who said these people hold their religion higher than education or vice versa? Is it impossible for a Muslim woman to strive for education? I think this thinking of yours disqualifies you as a serious debater.
It is simply unreasonable to ban hijab in a country whose population majorily (about 98%) consists of Muslims.

I have seen many people in Turkey ok with removing the religious clothing to attend universities or in turn go to religious schools. I believe there is a time and place for religion and a time and place for other things. In fact i never once saw it as a problem in schools then when living in Turkey (then again i lived in western coastal regions. It only seemed to have become the "hot topic" when the AKP came into power. Telling me my personal views disqualify me as a debater is quite the hypocritical remark you should understand not all people are going to have the same view as you in Turkey especially not secularists.Understand though what i said was my personal view and the view of many others in Turkey. If in any case the law is changed i would not be against it as i don't resort to hurting my opponent like the current ruling party does if disagreements occur. My personal view would of course remain unchanged. In my time i have understood first hand religion in Turkey is a double edged sword and like a government in power must be kept in check. It swings both ways and the last thing i would see is Turkey turn into a country the likes of what we now see in the majority of the ME.

 

[Jigs]

As we can see,all the problems of Turkey are based on kemalism.Hijab problem,Kurdish problem etc.

kemalist ideology considers them as "problems".In reality they are not problem at all.That simple...

Of course all our problems are attributed to what this nation was founded on. If only people realized the level of happiness and development we had during the days of Ataturk's reforms. They still teach that right ? Or has that been changed in schools too.

 

[ovarel]

Of course all our problems are attributed to what this nation was founded on. If only people realized the level of happiness and development we had during the days of Ataturk's reforms. They still teach that right ? Or has that been changed in schools too.

of course they are teaching what you said,kemalist indoctrination still remains in our education system.

the level of happiness and development?you miss those days,dont you?

istiklal courts,assasinations,takrir-i suküns,dersim massacre...

such lovely days

 

[Jigs]

of course they are teaching what you said,kemalist indoctrination still remains in our education system.

That is great.

the level of happiness and development?you miss those days,dont you?

istiklal courts,assasinations,takrir-i suküns,dersim massacre...

such lovely days

The days when women received equal rights for the first time.
When Politics become logical and based on reality.
When Turkish self efficiency reached a level that just recently we are catching up to.
When Turks actually realized that they were Turks.
When science/art/literature were heavily encouraged and people didn't have to go to court for talking about Darwinism.

 

[W.11]

As we can see,all the problems of Turkey are based on kemalism.Hijab problem,Kurdish problem etc.

kemalist ideology considers them as "problems".In reality they are not problem at all.That simple...

couldnt agree more...

 

[ovarel]

Woman recieved equal rights?Jigs you are delusional mate.Even men had no right those days,what women about are you talking?

im shocked at your thoughts.people knew that they were Turks or Kurds etc
they didnt have to die just because their ethnicities,you know.

also the progress in art/science/literature didnt happen.if it happened we would see its effects.oopss im sorry,ataturk did it but people after him didnt,right

i wish you dont get fooled by the kemalist bs.i wish it for your own good.

 

[Lankan Ranger]

u r a nobody to speaking against the ruling govt of other country, and its policy...

I agree!!!!!!!!

Just wait & see till next general election….

 

[Lankan Ranger]

u r a nobody to speaking against the ruling govt of other country, and its policy...

Turkey's incoming military chief warns government he will uphold secularism

In what could portend another confrontatation, Turkey's new military chief has warned that he would repel any government attempt to Islamize the country.

Gen. Isik Kosaner, who entered office on Aug. 27, said the military would continue to represent the bastion of secularism. Kosaner, who replaced outgoing Chief of Staff Gen. Ilker Basbug, said the military was willing to confront anybody, including the Islamist government of Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, who sought to threaten secularism.

"The Turkish armed forces have always taken sides and will take sides in defending the unitary state and secularism," Kosaner said in the ceremony in which he replaced Basbug.

Officials played down Kosaner's warning that the military would fight those who threaten secularism. They pointed out that his prececessor, Basbug, was also known as a fierce secularist but who quickly learned to work with the Islamist government. On Aug. 30, Basbug formally retired, Middle East Newsline reported.

"I don't think there will be a conflict with the government," [Ret.] Gen. Necati Ozgen said. "He's [Kosaner] a democrat and he will try to protect the armed forces through democratic means."

On Sept. 12, Turkey was scheduled to hold a referendum on constitutional reforms that would severely limit the military. Under the government-proposed reforms, military officers accused of crimes against the government would be tried in civilian courts.

Kosaner was expected to face the greatest challenge to Turkey's military, which toppled four governments over the last 50 years. More than 100 officers, including generals, have been indicted on charges of seeking to overthrow the Erdogan-led government in 2003. In August, several senior commanders were blocked for promotion by Erdogan because of their links to the alleged plot.

The military has also come under severe criticism for its failure to stop the Kurdish revolt in Turkey. The casualty rate in 2010 from attacks by the Kurdish Workers Party was said to be the highest in nearly a decade.

Kosaner has pledged to continue efforts to restructure the military, including the formation of at least five brigades comprised of professional soldiers. The new chief of staff has also sought to expand the draft to include university students and graduates. University graduates have been given the choice of either six months of regular service or one year of reserve duty.

The military has also been planning to increase training to fight the PKK. Kosaner said all soldiers would undergo a 45-day course that would range from basic skills to counter-insurgency training.

Turkey's incoming military chief warns government he will uphold secularism