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Alternative theories to the Mumbai attack

Not only is it homegrown, it's probably self inflicted wound being used for strategic leverage in the region. I don't care what Indians have to say about this situation anymore, they have already failed in curbing further violence and providing basic level security in their financial center, and the ********'s have been planting evidence and lying the whole time to build a case against Pakistan. :tsk:

Of course I am going to be highly skeptical about so called facts and motives, they are blackmailing my country is what it is. So far alternative theories garner more respect from me than any official statement from GoI.
 
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Of course I am going to be highly skeptical about so called facts and motives, they are blackmailing my country is what it is. So far alternative theories garner more respect from me than any official statement from GoI.

Its hardly surprising that the "Alternative Theories" thread is generating a lot more interest than the other one.

After all, it is rather difficult to accept that Pakistani terror groups were involved in this act to such an extent. Its quite a bitter pill to swallow I'm afraid.
 
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Problem is Indians think that they never tried to detablise PK ever - Marriot type of bombings never happened here,and we know who's building-up in west of PK
 
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First they say that CTS killer is a Bangladeshi now they are saying the head of the terror operation is from Bangladesh. The latest info from the Mumbai Mirror says that they are all Pakistanis. Guys please make up your minds!

The Killer may have given conflicting statements earlier must have retracted later. Good thing is that he is alive and whatever he says will also be verified on the grounds.
 
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India has enough Muslims and RDX explosives for all these to happen.a part of me thinks this is a BJP operation or some Indian state element is involved.I mean the way the reports are coming it seems the captured terrorists tell they are Pakistanis before they are even asked so that the actual perpetrators get away.
mine's a theory BTW.
 
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now these shits will say we have to send troops in afghanistan in self defence.
and i repeat this is all a ******* drama
and they have the occasion to say that pakistan is a failed state now they have the world attentions:hitwall::angry:
 
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The Killer may have given conflicting statements earlier must have retracted later. Good thing is that he is alive and whatever he says will also be verified on the grounds.

Getting statements after torture or gun battle for a few days is hardly worth pointing. I am not suprised that Indian members accept any theory as long as it means pointing at Pakistani... :crazy:
 
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Getting statements after torture or gun battle for a few days is hardly worth pointing. I am not suprised that Indian members accept any theory as long as it means pointing at Pakistani... :crazy:

You have a valid point it would have been nice if had not put the sarcastic smiley.
You already have years of experience with forums. Forum members do get points to discuss provided to them on silver plate by the media even the public opinion gets swayed, Such things do happen at the heat of the moment. If forums and media were the deciding factors then we would have already had thousands of wars.

Thats why its very important for Indian and Pakistani agencies to cooperate.
 
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You have a valid point it would have been nice if had not put the sarcastic smiley.
You already have years of experience with forums. Forum members do get points to discuss provided to them on silver plate by the media even the public opinion gets swayed, Such things do happen at the heat of the moment. If forums and media were the deciding factors then we would have already had thousands of wars.

Thats why its very important for Indian and Pakistani agencies to cooperate.

Pakistan should serious get the finance and technical assistance to eradicate terrorism. Whether it is secular or not. But if India keeps pushing every weapon Pakistan buys in its as s then you will get more of this. If Pakistan fails then you have pretty much a dead world. Those fanatic people never cared about anyone besides their shortsighted ideology. Pakistan cannot solve Indian problems. I hope it can do something against its own problems.

Maybe a joint anti terror but only after solving Kashmir.

About sarcasm, somtimes it is needed to get the right attention.
 
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Pakistan should serious get the finance and technical assistance to eradicate terrorism. Whether it is secular or not. But if India keeps pushing every weapon Pakistan buys in its as s then you will get more of this. If Pakistan fails then you have pretty much a dead world. Those fanatic people never cared about anyone besides their shortsighted ideology. Pakistan cannot solve Indian problems. I hope it can do something against its own problems.

Maybe a joint anti terror but only after solving Kashmir.

About sarcasm, somtimes it is needed to get the right attention.

OK now we have some agreement.
But if India and Pakistan pakistan wait for Kashmir resolution then will the terrorists wait too? Its not that they are striking India always.
 
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Well, it means that there should be a agreement that Kashmir is a problem area and both should contribute to let it evolve in non military but purely polical way. One can see it as a place where economical transit should take place between the two nations. One should promise eachother (and act) by removing military. It is a waste of manpower and cash. And if people tend to use weapons then there should be a court supported by both nations.

About the rest. I think the war is the result of Al Qaida... Poverty...and the extra push by western nations. Not the result of India and Pakistan.
 
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Pakistan should serious get the finance and technical assistance to eradicate terrorism. Whether it is secular or not. But if India keeps pushing every weapon Pakistan buys in its as s then you will get more of this. If Pakistan fails then you have pretty much a dead world. Those fanatic people never cared about anyone besides their shortsighted ideology. Pakistan cannot solve Indian problems. I hope it can do something against its own problems.

Look, terrorism is a problem that Pakistan created for itself. Though I agree that all help should be given to Pakistan, monetary or otherwise, it is rather arrogant to think of this as some sort of favour being done to India and the world.

Pakistan will, above all, be doing itself a favour by trying to eradicate terrorism.

The Indian Agencies have named the suspects living in Pakistan who have planned this attack. Will Pakistan be willing to extradite these terrorists to India? Will they be willing to put a stop to the activities of Laskhar-e-Toiba whose men openly make speeches and demand donations in Pakistani cities?

Above all, will Pakistan be willing to look at all forms of terrorism as terrorism, and stop differentiating between different groups by calling those hostile to Pakistan as "terrorists" and the ones hostile to India as "freedom fighters"?

Will Pakistan realize that "Freedom fighters" or "terrorists", these groups have the same negative effect on the Pakistani youth and culture?
 
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India has more than enough evidence of the involvement of Pakistan based terror groups, its to be seen if this evidence is "enough" for them to acknowledge that they share the blame for what happened in the last 3 days.

Their reaction will prove whether they are truly serious about jointly tackling terrorism.

Unfortunately, I am extremely pessimistic about this.
 
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India headed towards Hindu Talibanization And Fascist Saffron Violence

By Farzana Shah





PESHAWAR, Pakistan—Mosque in Parbhani, Maharashtra, where a bomb explosion left many injured, in December 2003. Naresh Kondwar and Himanshu Phanse of Bajrang Dal, who were killed while making bombs in Nanded in April 2006, were allegedly responsible for bombing the mosque.


Backdrop:

‘Samjhauta, Hindi for friendship, Express’ is only one of many CBM’s that have been undertaken by the two countries to improve relations, was initiated to increase people to people to contact between the two arch rivals. On February 17,2007, the train that travels from Delhi to Lahore was hit by a bomb, killing as many as 68 people. Most of the casualties consisted of Pakistani nationals. Many conspiracy theories were hatched in an attempt to explain what had really gone by.



Indian authorities and the media were quick to assert that the evidence overwhelmingly pointed towards Pakistan and ISI. With the immediate release of sketches of the suspects, it seemed that Indians had it all figured out. For Pakistan it was nothing more than a feeling of déjà vu; India is known to have a history of blaming Pakistan and ISI for the smallest of occurrences in India, hardly ever backing it up with any credible evidence. And so when in 2006 Malegaon, a town in the Nashik district of the Indian state of Maharashtra, located at some 290 km to the northeast of state capital Mumbai, was rattled by a series of bombings, the blame was put on groups having links with Pakistan and Bangladesh. The Maharashtra Police blamed the Student Islamic Movement of India, further linking them to Lashkar-e-Taiba and in turn the ISI.


The unlikely twist surfaced recently in India with the arrests of 10 people, including a serving Lieutenant Colonel Prashad Srikant Purohit, a Hindu monk and nun for their alleged involvement in bomb explosions that killed six people in the Muslim dominated town of Malegaon this year. So far, ten people, including a self proclaimed Hindu seer and a serving lieutenant colonel, have been arrested for their involvement in the Sep 29 bombing. Besides Purohit, of the accused also include Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, Shivnarayan Singh Kalsangram, Shyam Bhawarlal Sahu, Major Ramesh Shivji Upadhyay (retd), Sameer Kulkarni, Rakesh Dattaram Dhavde and Ajay Rahirkar. The suspicion is now directed at the extremist Hindu movement Sangh Parivar, a network linked to a former Major, and now in custody, Ramesh Upadhyay who represents the terrorist organization, Abhinav Bharat.



The chilling part of the entire episode is the involvement of accused Lt Col Purohit in bomb attack on the Samjhauta Express to which he confessed. During investigation Col Purohit has also confessed to training Hindu terrorists for attacking Muslims, besides training them for attacking Samjhauta Express for which he had also supplied them RDX. He further confessed that it was intended to cause armed conflict between Pakistan and India so that anti-Muslim passions could be nurtured in India, leading to violence.



The Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) claimed that Purohit supplied RDX to one “Bhagwan” for Samjhauta Express blast. Public prosecutor Ajay Misar said Abhinav Bharat’s treasurer Ajay Rahirkar had handed Rs2.5 lakh to Lt Col P S Purohit. Mahant Amritanand Dev alias Dayanand Pandey, the self-styled pontiff who was arrested from Kanpur has revealed that it was under his instructions that Lt. Colonel Shrikant Purohit procured RDX from an army depot that was used in the Malegaon blast. According to reports Pandey was present in all the pre-blast meetings in Bhopal, Jabalpur and Faridabad, monitored operations meticulously and was also responsible for arranging the finances that came in through illegal channels. It is believed that Pandey, a dropout from the National Defence Academy, collaborated with two other accused who are presently on the run - Ramji Kalsangara, who allegedly planted the motorcycle owned by the Hindu ascetic Pragya Singh Thakur in Malegaon, and Sameer Dange.



The suspects have also been questioned for May 2007 blast at Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad and the April 2006 twin blasts at New Delhi’s Jama Masjid. In the Mecca Masjid blasts as many as 14 people were killed and over 50 injured. The case was investigated by the city police special wing and was later handed over to the Central Bureau of Investigation which could not come to any conclusion. Investigations into the Samjhauta Express explosion and the Jama Masjid blast also failed to make headway and police could not across on any tangible leads.



Police have already established a strong link between Pandey and some of the suspects in the Kanpur blast case through surveillance. On Aug 24, two members of the right-wing Bajrang Dal were killed there while assembling bombs. After the arrest of Panday police is expecting to get some breaking clues in the 2006 Nanded blasts in Maharashtra as well. The arrests have reinforced growing suspicions over the last few years of a potential

threat from Hindu extremists.



Infiltration of Hindu Taliban in Army?


Interrogation of Major (retd.) Ramesh Upadhyay unearthed that the Bhonsla Military School in Nashik was used as a training ground by the conspirators. The school has denied its involvement in the blast but it is under the scanner for allowing Bajrang Dal activists to hold training sessions in the use of arms and martial arts. The school’s links to the RSS is an open secret as it was founded by B.S. Moonje, who was Savarkar’s close friend and who assisted in creating the RSS. The arrest of the serving army officers and former officers’ link to the recent terror activities points towards a worrisome notion; of the deep infiltration of fundamentalist ideas into Indian army. The critics believe that the constant indoctrination of Hindutva ideology over decades by the VHP, the RSS, the Bajrang Dal and the BJP has resulted in this kind of violence, which has found its way into crucial state institutions like police force, army and the education departments.



Ram Punyani, secretary of the All India Secular Forum and a human rights activist, said that the deep and widespread ideological indoctrination began years ago but was propagated systematically during the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) regime. It placed its members in the bureaucracy, particularly in the education department, and in the cultural arena. “RSS people who once headed a department may have retired, but they have ensured that the damage continues, as they would have hired a number of like-minded people. So you can imagine how deep the penetration is. It will take generations to root this out,” said Punyani.



It is a well known fact that once George Fernandes had asked the army chief, the Air Marshal, and the Admiral to report the Kargil war to MPs. When the three obliged to the given orders and the place where meeting was planned, it was the party office of BJ.



This is how the Saffron Brigade interferes in the affairs of the armed forces, blatantly. The involvement of serving lieutenant colonel of the Indian army in blasts and in the supplying of 60 kg of RDX for terrorist activities, further casts a shadow over the credibility of the army.



In the past BJP has been offering tickets to the former army officers, (many of them are former generals) for contesting elections for Lok Sabha on behalf of the party and to an extent it has been successful in wooing them. One such retiree is the chief minister of Uttarakhand B C Khanduria retired Major General. Another retired officer Sabyasachi Bagchi who is member of BJP proudly praises the RSS for having developed the character of young people. SS Raikar of Bhonsla military school, a retired army officer, is believed to have allowed the school premises to be used as a den for making terror schemes and devising conspiracies, besides facilitating arms training and providing accommodation.



The former governor of Jammu and Kashmir Lt General (Rtd) S K Sinha is alleged to have allowed Dyanand Padey to stay in the official residence. Daynand Pandey was hosted by him in Raj Bhawan and the two had held a meeting in a famous temple in Kashmir.



RDX and Army connection: (Chilling clues)


Lt Col P S Purohit who provide RDX Samjhota Train blasts and also being interrogated for other bomb blasts in India.


On September two, 2006, Indian police in Ahmednagar seized about 195 kg of cocktail of explosives that included RDX from a local scrap dealer Shankar Shelke which was procured by him from Army Ordnance decommissioned as scrap. A mobile phone from which he had made over 150 calls was also recovered and during investigation it was found that he had a cellular connection on a fake name, adding to his already dubious profile.



However, before police could arrest him, Shelke allegedly committed suicide and his employee could not provide any details about him. The case was closed as a suicide, with no further investigation.


The investigations into how the RDX reached some right wing groups allegedly responsible for Malegaon explosions, led to this forgotten case of suicide of Shankar Shelk. Some leads are now emerging that the deadly RDX could have been pilfered during such decommissioning of scrap from the Army.



In the past the law enforcing agencies of India have failed to find out the origin of such explosive used in different blasts, especially in Maharashtra where Bajrang Dal had been imparting explosive and arms training to its activists.


Who is financing ‘Hinduvta Terror?’


According to ATS, the money needed to finance these plots is generally collected by a self-styled religious leader hailing from Gujarat. According to reports the probe into links of Hindu outfits, accused of terrorism, with Army men brought a few business houses under the examination of Maharashtra’s ATS and Central Security agencies, investigating the finances of the group supposedly responsible for Malegaon blast. Sources attached with the probe said that a religious leader from Southern Gujarat was one of those who collected funds from the business houses. According to some other reports foreign funds were used in Malegaon attack.


Reportedly huge amounts of money collected in the US go into the accounts of VHP and other conglomerates of RSS. Sonal Shah and her father Ramesh have been in the core group of VHPA [America] and have been instrumental in sending fund under the name of Eklavya Vidyalaya for backward tribals. Although the human rights organizations of India complaint that these funds were not used for the backward tribals. It is also believed that finds collected from abroad by saffron brigade were used in the recent-anti Christian riots in Kanthamal of Orissa and other parts of India and in 2002 against the Muslims of Gujarat. The backward community of Charras was roped in by the RSS to wreak vengeance on the Muslims by slaughtering them. This confession is caught on camera. There is no audit of this fund collected by saffron from US and western countries.



BJP lacks moral fiber — indulges in double talk. The BJP connection:


With the surfacing of the connection between Army personnel, BJP and the terror activities, the party too has come under heavy scrutiny. Sensing the gravity of the matter and possible questioning in connection with the Malegaon bombings, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) MP Yogi Adityanath refused to assist in the investigations.


“I dare the police to arrest me and I will offer no help in their probe,” he added, amid reports that he was likely to be questioned in connection with Malegaon. The BJP and its allied Hindu extremist groups are also questioning the investigation and blamed that it was an attempt to malign these groups. They further announced to defend Pragya Singh (Sadhvi) who has confessed her role in the bombing, and to provide her legal help. BJP Initially denied any association with Pragya Singh but later supported her. Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh also accused that those parties that once sought lethal POTA (Prevention of Terrorism Act) charges framed against suspects from minority communities were now asking the government to go easy on the Hindu right-wing extremists.The probe after arrest of Sadhvi and Col Purohit led to Adityanath, the successor of Mahant Avaidyanath of the Gorakhpur Temple Trust, who is believed to be responsible for the BJP’s foothold in eastern Uttar Pradesh and is also known for his Hindu awakening rallies.





He justified the attack on churches in Orissa following the killing of a Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leader. “The Hindu reaction (after the killing of the priest) is justified and it is high time that the Hindus should pick up weapons just like our gods and goddesses adorn weapons,” had said. Adityanath has been active in reconverting other religious groups, particularly the low-caste converts to Christianity, back into the Hindu fold. In 2005, a large group of 1,800 people were converted in the town of Etah.




Pragya Singh (Sadhvi) who confesses her role in bombing BJP’s sudden romance with Pakistan


With emergence of Hindu terrorism, BJP which usually does not nurture good opinions about Pakistan much less support India’s friendly relations with her, on November 19 said that Indian police probe into an army officer’s alleged role in the Samjhauta Express blasts among other terror attacks could harm talks with Pakistan BJP spokesman Ravi Shanker Prasad was quoted by Indian media as saying, “The juvenile investigations would encourage jihadi elements in Pakistan and would have an effect on the talks between the two countries which are due in the last week of this month.”





“There is a risk of Pakistan seeking a review of the entire terrorist attacks in which India had alleged a Pakistani hand”, he said adding “The morale of the Indian Army should be protected at all costs.” And further, “The ATS theory would give Pakistan an opportunity to prove that India is involved in sponsoring anti-Pakistan campaign on terror.”


Reaction of Hindu religious leaders:


Hindu religious leaders are now uniting and some of them met in Panipat on Sunday November 16th to form a Dharam Sangrakshan Samiti to defend the blast accused, from the allegations leveled by the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad. In Panipat, the Sangh Parivar demonstrated its united resolve to fight for those accused of terrorism. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) now plans to hold a massive rally of religious leaders on November 26 to demonstrate their support for those accused of a connection in the blast.


Reaction of the Hinduvta leaders (Excerpts)


There was a National debate in India as India was reminded of the spreading of Hindu terror in India, in the face of these investigations. This is the summary of the same.


When Hindu leaders are accused of killing innocent people and indulging in terror acts isn’t it time to do aatmachintan (introspection) just as they want the Muslim leaders to do when Muslim youths are accused of being involved in terror acts. Govindacharya (RSS) claimed that the government has been ignoring the Hindus and such terror acts only reflect the frustration in the society. “Hindu Samaj has definitely done the aatmachintan and this kind of emotional outburst are the result of such aatmachintan. There are two reasons: First when Hindu samaj (society) feels that there is no government that takes care of their interests and feelings then such outburst are a natural consequence though undesirable.



Similarly when the legitimate established organizations espousing the cause of Hindu society apply double standards to their own convictions and they are not honest about their concern of large section of Hindu society, then definitely the Hindus do the aatmachintan and the result is mushrooming of such outfits.”


BJP President Rajnath Singh said that Hindu saints were being maligned and VHP’s Praveen Togadia says a Hindu can never be a terrorist. Contrary to this, a completely opposite stance to this is taken by the BJP when Muslim politicians are the subject of discussion, particularly in this context.





“Gandhiji also said ‘politics without religious values is of no use to me’. He meant the Dharma. Dharma needs to be in politics otherwise it will become immoral” Singh argued.





Dipankar Gupta argued that BJP can never ever rid itself of its Hindutva agenda. “When you come down to the wire, the defining characteristic of the BJP is Hindutva. It can occasionally take on other issues as well like economic regeneration but everybody is talking about that. So what’s different about the BJP? The difference is Hindutva. So when push comes to shove, its Hindutva colour come out.”





Conclusion:





Chaos and fear continues to haunt India as the poor continue to pay with their flesh and blood, for a senseless war that has been imposed on them by the followers of a violent ideology .More arrests are expected in the coming weeks as the frightening dimensions of a radical Hindu terror plot starts to unravel, with investigators indicating that it had the makings of a larger conspiracy and planning of reprisal killings of Muslims for serial bombings in a number of Indian cities. Indian analysts are now worried about Hindu terrorism. Some of it has been on display for a long time against the Muslim community. Some of it is recent; targeting Christian missionaries and Christian converts. Because of the rise of Hindu fundamentalism in the 1980s, which saw a revival of old Hindu supremacist thinkers like Savarkar, who was behind the killing of Gandhi, India is now open to terrorism that is lashing out at the state. People are accustomed to voting the BJP to power as an alternative to the Congress and that in turn empowers the grand Hindu fundamentalist alliance called the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) that contains such extremist outfits as Bajrang Dal. A common sense conclusion would be that these acts of terrorism are aimed at creating a communal divide in India, to fulfill the ultimate dream of the Hindu Raj over India. A country where mosques are bombed, army men like Colonel Purohit join hands with radical groups like Swami Dayanand Pandey to unleash terror at the expense of innocent lives of their own countrymen is a country that has failed to her own people, let alone by taken as a model of democracy to be followed by the rest of the world.





It is high time India should take lead from the situation in her neighboring country where fundamentalists are on the rampage and blowing innocents into piece. Before it is too late to root out Hindu Talibanization from Indian society, which is growing fast as Machiavelli said “By being on the spot one sees trouble at its birth and one can quickly remedy it; not being there one hears about it after it has grown and there is no longer any remedy.”
 
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