Alternative History: What if the KMT won China

[vi-va]

In this alternative timeline, obviously the KMT would've corrected some of its faults to ensure victory over the CCP. Yes, the KMT lost ultimately because of corruption and poor governance. I think ultimately if they did win in the Civil War, these problems would've been fixed in the long run like they did in Taiwan.

Not possible. They can not defeat Japanese, they can NOT defeat CCP. They can NOT rule China properly, and base on their weakness and dysfunctional party, they will cede Xinjiang, Tibet, and even more, just like how they ceded Mongolia to USSR.

 

[Song Hong]

Kmt can't take back Tibet and Xinjiang in time.

Kmt also can't defend Tibet frontier such as medog Aksai Chin

Many parts of Tibet will goes to India. Lhasa will be Bhutan 2.0

 

[powastick]

I don't think so. China is far more homogeneous than India. Just look at how all of the Confucian societies fared under a stable political system and free market economy, from Japan to S. Korea to Taiwan to Hong Kong to Singapore. That would be more like what China would've experienced if the KMT won.

I should remind you, there is a possibility for a country like China would not end up as a liberal democracy but as a illiberal democracy where it is a authoritarian government sugar coated with democracy where votes doesn't matter. Even if China allowed free and fair elections, US media will never stop its propaganda against China. You believe too much on ideology, but never see the power in play here.

 

[Beast]

Can you read Chinese?
《党员、党权与党争_1924～1949年中国国民党的组织形态》is a must read, then you will truly understand why KMT lost. I bought epub softcopy. I can give it to you or you can buy it here:

amazon.com/dp/7509799848/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_EkLPEbZXN88MX

If KMT won, it will be the end of Chinese civilization and the hell of China.
Don't be so idealistic. KMT is a scum in his blood.

@OsmanAli98, to really understand Chiang Kai-shek and KMT, you simply can NOT find a better book than the one I mentioned above.

It's very much misleading to judge Chiang Kai-shek if you only read English material. It's all distorted.

To understand KMT in depth, we need to analyse how Chiang Kai-shek gained his power, how he maintained his power, and how he organized his party. It was bad, very bad.

KMT was rotted in the root, Chiang Kai-shek is responsible for large part of it. He is incapable, not just incapable, he is responsible for a lot damage to China and Chinese.

The KMT party is so factioned that no one can control.
The KMT is so weak that it can't do anything significant enough to reverse the decline of Chinese civilization if they are willing to.
The KMT is so corrupted, even US allies congress man despise them and refuse to provide more fund, because those fund goes into KMT elites' pocket anyway.
The KMT is so isolated that, they have little connection with the mass and can NOT organize a decent fight against the Japanese.

In the opposite, CCP is so damn good at organizing the mass, so deeply rooted in the mass, and overwhelmingly welcomed and supported by the mass.

CCP is to damn motherfcuker tough and their fight is epic, say it
Long March
Liaoshen campaign
Huaihai campaign
Pingjin campaign
Korean War

KMT is a drowning dog, despised by their allies and enemies.
CCP is a epic fighter, respected by all their allies and enemies.

If KMT was in charge, we will end up like India. I would rather die to have KMT in charge.

Indeed. KMT is just like south Vietnam regime. Destinated to lose. They are very corrupted. In fact many KMT leadership act like gangster or former gangster.

The American know supporting KMT is like filling an end less hole.

Actually the only hope for KMT is for Sun liren to rebel and killed Chiang and established a new KMT. But I guess Chiang is too ruthless.

 

[Song Hong]

Chinese culture is unfit for plebicide democracy.

Now dpp Taiwan is sponsoring LGBT, sex cult, fabricating racial hatred out of homogenous taiwan, resurrecting malay race out of sinicized malay.

All to create conflict and trouble for society

 

[Song Hong]

From hk and taiwan now, we see reason Mao wanted to Purge all Chinese landlord even if it resulted to millions of death.

You cannot reason with greedy rich people. They will fund their ngo, terrorist cell, bribe judge in order to protect status quo.

Old Chinese landlord are warlord. They have own militias.

Mao handle them through blunt force, setting stage for renewal of China.

Mao took all the blame. Chinese get thousands years of benefit

 

[t1000]

One of the greatest tragedies in modern history IMO is the KMT losing the Chinese civil war to the CCP. If the KMT had won, today China would be a democratic, wealthy and civilized nation with a high standard of living, protection for human rights, a well mannered and polite society like that in Japan and Taiwan, the world's largest economy and a long time ally of the United States. China would not be aggressively nationalist but will be secure and established as an industrial superpower and have a cosmopolitan society that would be welcoming to people from all over the world.

Wasn't it the USA which asked Chiang kai shake to hold back on the final assault which would have decimated the CCP cadres?
In fact at one point the americans were thinking of assassinating Chaing kai shake.

Later the same USA would help the commie chinese against the soviets headed by the diplomacy of Mr. Kissinger, which led to the opening of China to the USA, and became the first step towards the development of China from a poor nation to a medium income country now.

Strange that china's current mortal enemy (USA) helped commie china so much in the past.
Also strange that china's current bff (rossiya) is the country that stole most land and people from china; more than every other country put together.

I guess chinese change alliances like they change t-shirts.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Wasn't it the USA which asked Chiang kai shake to hold back on the final assault which would have decimated the CCP cadres?
In fact at one point the americans were thinking of assassinating Chaing kai shake

When did that happen? Chiang never had the capability to defeat the CCP after the Long March.

Americans considered it because Chiang was not a useful puppet. He was a terrible puppet because he stole American money, didn't listen to America and got uppity with General Stillwell.

But he's not a terrible puppet because he's capable and independent. Far from it, he's a thief, liar and barbarous traitor. He stole money not only from the US but from his own people. He killed 1 million people overnight by breaking the Yellow River dam.

Chiang is like the Chinese version of Kim Jong Il, but worse, since Kim Jong Il actually cared about North Korea. He even installed his fat son Chiang Ching Kuo as his heir.

 

[t1000]

When did that happen? Chiang never had the capability to defeat the CCP after the Long March.

I read this a while ago and so don't remember the details of when, but it was this General Marshall (famous for marshall plan) on orders from Potus Truman who persuaded chiang to stop hurting the ccp and pushing it into extinction.

 

[Song Hong]

At that time, CPC has no confidence to beat KMT. Mao went Chong Qing to meet Jiang, discussing to form unity government.

But this go against China culture. There can only be one emperor and the stronger party(KMT) on paper start attacking.

Then suddenly everyone realized, KMT forces were being defeated like nobody.

When did that happen? Chiang never had the capability to defeat the CCP after the Long March.

Americans considered it because Chiang was not a useful puppet. He was a terrible puppet because he stole American money, didn't listen to America and got uppity with General Stillwell.

But he's not a terrible puppet because he's capable and independent. Far from it, he's a thief, liar and barbarous traitor. He stole money not only from the US but from his own people. He killed 1 million people overnight by breaking the Yellow River dam.

Chiang is like the Chinese version of Kim Jong Il, but worse, since Kim Jong Il actually cared about North Korea. He even installed his fat son Chiang Ching Kuo as his heir.

I read this a while ago and so don't remember the details of when, but it was this General Marshall (famous for marshall plan) on orders from Potus Truman who persuaded chiang to stop hurting the ccp and pushing it into extinction.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I read this a while ago and so don't remember the details of when, but it was this General Marshall (famous for marshall plan) on orders from Potus Truman who persuaded chiang to stop hurting the ccp and pushing it into extinction.

By Truman's time CCP already took control of Manchuria, had Japanese/Soviet weapons and outnumbered KMT troops:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War#Resumed_fighting_(1946–1949)

"By the end of the Second Sino-Japanese War, the power of the Communist Party grew considerably. Their main force grew to 1.2 million troops, backed with additional militia of 2 million, totalling 3.2 million troops. Their "Liberated Zone" in 1945 contained 19 base areas, including one-quarter of the country's territory and one-third of its population; this included many important towns and cities."

KMT attacked first, thinking they had the advantage. But by the time they realized their mistake it was too late for them.

 

[vi-va]

KMT never had a chance to win cos PLA actually fought much better than KMT ( Korean war showed that PLA could defeat US if US didnt have airstrike support). PLA soldiers mostly were poor farmers lost everything to the landlords, so they hate the landlords to the core.

Mao gave them a chance to revenge and they also believed that they will have their own land to make their own food, thats why they will fight to the last man while KMT soldiers just fought for good salary, no real will to fight and easy to accept surrender.

KMT simply had No single chance to win.

The same applies to Vietnam. Without US air support and consultant, North Vietnam crushed South Vietnam like a cracker.
Why, because North Vietnamese defends their mother land, their father, their mom, their sons and daughters from invasion. While South Vietnam government is a bunch of a$$hole, they hold their power by supporting foreign invader. They are so corrupted, like cockroaches. They are so weak, 100 North Vietnamese solders can fight 1000 South solders.
KMT have no chance to win. Just like South Vietnam corrupted government has no chance to win.

 

[Song Hong]

A high proportion of land belongs to French and local landlords.

That is how when Uncle Ho calls, everyone rally at his side.

The same applies to Vietnam. Without US air support and consultant, North Vietnam crushed South Vietnam like a cracker.
Why, because North Vietnamese defends their mother land, their father, their mom, their sons and daughters from invasion. While South Vietnam government is a bunch of a$$hole, they hold their power by supporting foreign invader. They are so corrupted, like cockroaches. They are so weak, 100 North Vietnamese solders can fight 1000 South solders.
KMT have no chance to win. Just like South Vietnam corrupted government has no chance to win.

 

[vi-va]

In this alternative timeline, obviously the KMT would've corrected some of its faults to ensure victory over the CCP. Yes, the KMT lost ultimately because of corruption and poor governance. I think ultimately if they did win in the Civil War, these problems would've been fixed in the long run like they did in Taiwan.

Not a chance. Haven't you see what happened in Taiwan? KMT is still corrupted, incompetent, fractioned in Taiwan. Just like what they were in mainland China.

From hk and taiwan now, we see reason Mao wanted to Purge all Chinese landlord even if it resulted to millions of death.

You cannot reason with greedy rich people. They will fund their ngo, terrorist cell, bribe judge in order to protect status quo.

Old Chinese landlord are warlord. They have own militias.

Mao handle them through blunt force, setting stage for renewal of China.

Mao took all the blame. Chinese get thousands years of benefit

well said.

 

[Viva_Viet]

The same applies to Vietnam. Without US air support and consultant, North Vietnam crushed South Vietnam like a cracker.
Why, because North Vietnamese defends their mother land, their father, their mom, their sons and daughters from invasion. While South Vietnam government is a bunch of a$$hole, they hold their power by supporting foreign invader. They are so corrupted, like cockroaches. They are so weak, 100 North Vietnamese solders can fight 1000 South solders.
KMT have no chance to win. Just like South Vietnam corrupted government has no chance to win.

Sad but true that most of S.VN soldiers just fought for money. They didnt know why must they have to fight against N.VN brothers and die in vain while corrupted S.VN officials kept enjoying the happy lives wt good food, big houses and go to cinema, bars everyday and didnt give a damn care how many S.Vn soldiers die in the battles.

US hate communist mainly bcs the rich,who do Nothing but exploiting poor ppl, dont want farmers and workers stand up and start overthrowing them.