All Afghan and Mughal invaders were Barbarians or Heros !!!

[litman]

Absolutely wrong, sufis of Punjab were spreading islam even during the reign of Ranjeet singh and his descendants in Punjab, actually a sizeable number of Sikhs embraced Islam during 1800s even during the time of Sikh rule.

i think MBQ invaded subcontinent in 781 i guess.

this still does not change the fact that many Muslim rulers from central asia just came for plunder and loot.
it does not change the fact that many things they did were unislamic. the redeeming factor are those Sufi saints. That is what converted Afghanistan, Pakistan and parts of Bharat into Muslims. I would even say that given the fact that Muslim dynasties that ruled over North Bharat for about 800 years or more, Muslims failed in their 'dawah' to the non Muslims. Persia became majority Muslim within 800 years and so did, Central Asia/Afghanistan and Pakistan. So did Indonesia/Malaysia. So did North Africa. But North Bharat did not. This is mainly due to the Muslim dynasties ruled over their non Muslim subjects.
In my opinion the Sufi saints would have probably done a better job at 'dawah' if it were not for the discriminatory nature at times of those Muslim dynasties.

we really dont know why they come here. none of us were present at that time . most of us today read distorted history written by today's liberals and scholars like shiekh imran who have some game plan to work upon . yes they might have some material aims behind their expeditions but we cant say that it was the primary objective. the level of faith of muslims have been reducing since the time of Prophet Muhammad SAW. according to one of His saying the muslims of the time of the Prophet were the best muslims then those of the next generation and then the third generation. it means that the overall level of faith and understanding of islam will gradually reduce over time and we after 1400 yrs are just so called muslims who twist islam for our material benefits.

 

[Mentee]

As to your idiotic Akbar accusation...who was Aurangzeb?? What was Aurangzeb's lineage? Furthermore just like there were bad khulafa and good khulafa there were bad emperor's and good emperor's. That doesn't mean you reject the very idea of the khilafa or Mughal dawla.

Caliphate ended after the martyrdom of Imam Hassan and the mockery of Islam which followed after doesn't qualify to be deemed as caliphate of any sort, get your facts straight!

Bottom line .. stop making this a sectarian argument. T

Says the one who himself is a sectarian
freak. You or the likes of you are in no position to dictate My way or the high way - - - - - - -.

This thread should be closed imo bc crazy people like you

Is it something usual in your family to get attention of others?

 

[tkmd]

Caliphate ended after the martyrdom of Imam Hassan and the mockery of Islam which followed after doesn't qualify to be deemed as caliphate of any sort, get your facts straight!

Says the one who himself is a sectarian
freak. You or the likes of you are in no position to dictate My way or the high way - - - - - - -.



Is it something usual in your family to get attention of others?

Ok well then you are contradicting you're own Barelvi ulamah who are all over YouTube extolling the virtues of many Ottoman Khulafa. And you've also exposed that you are not a scholar of Islam or a student of Islam as you know nothing about the definition of a Khilafa or the requirements for a islamic state no matter what madhab/manhaj or modern discourse you subscribe to. Although your crazy high pitch tone from the original post suggested you to be a fool to begin with.

A balanced reading of my posts in comparison to your sectarian ones will show to any sane individual that you are, as I said, both uneducated as well as ill mannered and not to mention a garden variety sectarian clown.

And now you bring family's into your frothing at the mouth diatribes. I honestly recommend you seek psychiatric evaluation. No point in continuing to argue with you. The severity of psychiatric disease is always linked to "poor insight into ones own disease". I wish you well...just hope you get medicated asap....1-2 mg IV Haldol q4 hours should do the trick. Or Seroquel PO.

To add again, this line of thought...that the Mughals and other Muslim tribes that invaded the subcontinent are evil/condemnable etc is currently being bandied about on Republic TV. So for those of you who have issues with things that happened in an era that I bet most can't trace their lineage back to....then just remember Arnab Gooswami and GD Bakshi say the same thing.

If people want to reject our glorious Mughal history whose gifts include the Urdu language, everything we eat in Pakistan and all the tourist attractions we have....then fine go and sit with Gooswami and see how it feels when him and Yogiji are insulting you or gang raping you.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Hi,

Your assessment is incorrect!


It was because of Sufi/saints that we have a large amount of Muslims roaming around in the subcontinent. These abdali kjilji Mughal or whatever the crap - - - - - - - - were alien to this region. The came, they looted, they went back - - - - - - - -.



History tells us that many a Muslim kings would bar ullema from dawah in many parts of the subcontinent as it could significantly reduce the jizya tax for them to have late night parties with girls as young as 15 abducted from the peasant households if not provided by a dallah drabari - - - - - - -



do you have any idea when drabari mullahs were in cohorts with the Mughal emperor akbar, who challenged his Deen Ilahi and on what grounds ? Sufi Madho Lal Hussein ! the reason breilvis and Shias are well versed with the rules of states craft and never waged an armed resistance against an Islamic state unlike Taliban ttp sipah sahaba Daesh isis MB - - - - - - is due to the grooming of these very Saints. Imagine the 75% of Pakistan go in a Taliban like mode - - - - - - - -



And no I don't give a chvanni about these psychopath criminals. Doesn't matter if the criminal is a Pakhtoon, Punjabi or whatever, he's a criminal.



Now let's address your wanna be tough boy rants about the majority sect of Pakistan. Who was Iqbal? Quaid? Chaudhry rehmat Ali?



Deobandi school of though has always stood on the wrong side of the history from commie ulema hind to actively making pacts with Indian national congress against Muslim league to creating terror groups targeting state of Pakistan and its citizenz - - - - - - - -




There jealousy derives for the fact that they are inept to produce a single man of the stature of Baba Farid in their ranks - - - - - - - so cling on to ridiculing those who look up to these saints including Christians Sikhs and Hindus who regularly pay visit to Sufi shrines annually.



Aren't you from the same lot who were clueless just a decade ago whether television is halal or not besides many other fundamental things, found the answers?



Now if you think that you can bully the 75% into submission using your interpretation of sharia , think again! The likes of Molana Tariq Jamil were given state tv coverage to tame your sectarian nuts not that sunnis are done with their beliefs.

I never thought I would see Barelvi extremism, but here we are in the age of TLP and Khadim Hussein Rizvi.

As a Deobandi in the vein of Dr. Israr Ahmad and Maulana Maududi and also a Sufi Muslim in vein of Allama Iqbal and Jalaluddin Rumi, I very much disagree with your analysis.

My Rajput ancestors themselves converted to Islam during the reign of Aurangzeb Alamgir, whom we fought ferociously only to realize he was a better man than we were.

When defeated in battle, Rajputs would blow two horns. The first was to prepare our women to take out their weapons, the second for mass suicide for our women and children.

Sultan Aurangzeb Alamgir RAA gained victory over our clans, but as soon as the first horn was blown, he withdrew his forces.

When we sent a messenger as to why he did that when he was victorious? He stated that a victory which is gained from the blood of our people is not a victory and he would rather lose such a battle.

Our clans converted to Islam right then and there. Afterwards we fought in every battle in which he and his descendants asked, intermarried with his family, and saw ourselves as Mughals too.

Even after the Mughals collapsed, we went on fighting the British in guerilla wars.

The Rajput is fiercely loyal to the Mughals and the Islamic heritage, we took them as our ustads. We had a religious devotion to them.

So either original poster is mallu or a crackpot Pakistani heritage guy like Tarek Fatah. Might be Fatah himself lol.

Lol on Fatah.

 

[Yankee-stani]

I never thought I would see Barelvi extremism, but here we are in the age of TLP and Khadim Hussein Rizvi.

As a Deobandi in the vein of Dr. Israr Ahmad and Maulana Maududi and also a Sufi Muslim in vein of Allama Iqbal and Jalaluddin Rumi, I very much disagree with your analysis.

My Rajput ancestors themselves converted to Islam during the reign of Aurangzeb Alamgir, whom we fought ferociously only to realize he was a better man than we were.

When defeated in battle, Rajputs would blow two horns. The first was to prepare our women to take out their weapons, the second for mass suicide for our women and children.

Sultan Aurangzeb Alamgir RAA gained victory over our clans, but as soon as the first horn was blown, he withdrew his forces.

When we sent a messenger as to why he did that when he was victorious? He stated that a victory which is gained from the blood of our people is not a victory and he would rather lose such a battle.

Our clans converted to Islam right then and there. Afterwards we fought in every battle in which he and his descendants asked, intermarried with his family, and saw ourselves as Mughals too.

Even after the Mughals collapsed, we went on fighting the British in guerilla wars.

The Rajput is fiercely loyal to the Mughals and the Islamic heritage, we took them as our ustads. We had a religious devotion to them.



Lol on Fatah.

I never really thought Rajput clan was that important I always heard my father side and my father say we are Rajput bit I thought it was some pre Islamic caste well thanks for changing my views on it as well and It was until recently I thought Punjabis were an ethnic group but a cultural group

Lol on Fatah.[/QUOTE]

Fateh looks more ((Kosher)) than Pakistani I always send this smug face like that

 

[niaz]

From ancient times India/Hindustan was considered a rich country and a prime target for the military adventurers. The inscription on 'Naqshe-Rustam' in Iran describes Hindustan Satrapy as the richest province of the Achaemenid Empire.

As a student of history, I have read detailed accounts of all the warlords who invaded the subcontinent from Alexander the Great to Ahmed Shah Abdali. In my view, Alexander was just a megalomaniac out to prove that he was a reincarnation of Greek Heroes such as Achilles & Hercules.

Mahmud Ghaznavi only wanted the loot. Mohammed Ghori attacked Punjab primarily to expand his kingdom by ending the remnants of Ghaznavid State based at Lahore. Ostensibly, he conquered Delhi because he was invited to do so by the Jai Chand of Qanuj who had a personal grudge against Prithvi Raj.

Chagatai Mongols & Amir Taimur, as well as Nader Shah Afshar, were also after the riches. Babur, after losing his inheritance to Shaibani Khan Uzbeck, was looking for a new country to capture and rule.

The last invader; Ahmad Shah Abdali, was perhaps the only one who crossed the Indus to punish the Hindu Marathas.

” Past present: When the empire crumbled"
Mubarak Ali , August 25, 2013 “

“When the Muslim nobles did not respond to his appeal, he called upon Ahmad Shah Abdali to help materialise his scheme. He urged Abdali that it was his religious duty to help and save the Muslims when the Marathas attacked them. Consequently, the Marathas were defeated in the third battle of Panipat in 1762. It failed to revive the Mughal power in the subcontinent but helped the East India Company to gain power as Shah Waliullah had overlooked the growing influence of the British in the subcontinent.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1038270

Therefore, IMHO, Abdali, despite all of his atrocities, is the only one who could possibly be considered a “Hero” for the Muslims of the subcontinent. In some ways, Alauddin Khilji can also be considered a hero of the Indian subcontinent because he defeated the Mongol invaders and thus saved the local population from the horrible onslaught.

All the others did not have any sublime/ esoteric mission to be regarded as a hero. They were not barbarians either. Their behavior was no different than other military adventures of the day.

Regrettably, the history as written in the textbooks and taught in Pakistan, as well as in India, is given a ‘Spin’ to reflect the bias of the rulers of the day. For example, I was reading history in 1956, when most of the text books in use in Pakistani schools had been written during the Raj. In the history that I studied when I switched to Islamia High School Rawalpindi from the St Mary’s; described 1857 event as “ Ghadar” meaning rebellion whereas nowadays the same event is called “ Jang-e Azadi” or fight for freedom.

However the above are my views and may not necessarily be correct.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Afghan and Mughal Invaders came to Sub indian continent for theft and lust of power . Why Pakistan Missiles were named on them . We have many muslim heros of soil for example Tipu Sultan , Dullah Bhatti and many Fata tribes mahsud wazir, khattak , Afridi who sacrificed lives for protection of mother land and independence .

Please share your thoughts !

Thanks,

They were Muslims and instilled fear in the hearts of everyone in the subcontinent especially Hindus and rep represented the martail elite of their time. That's what we are aiming at, even the US names their attack helis after native American warriors because they respect their martial status despite the fact that the white settlers fought against them for decades.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I never really thought Rajput clan was that important I always heard my father side and my father say we are Rajput bit I thought it was some pre Islamic caste well thanks for changing my views on it as well and It was until recently I thought Punjabis were an ethnic group but a cultural group

We have great history brother. It would not be wrong to say that we were the instrument of Islamic expansion into Pakistan and Hindustan.

If the Dilli Sultanat, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Mughals were the great face and spark of Islamic conquest, we were the fire which kept burning, the nameless soldiers that fell on that path as timbers, and the sword of Allah swt to cut down the enemy in his forts and his dwellings.

Rajputs violently resisted Islam for centuries, especially in Punjab, but once we became Muslim, we became the most fervent and devoted Muslims ready to put down our lives in any battle demanded by Allah swt, Rasool saws, and our Sultan.

 

[Yankee-stani]

We have great history brother. It would not be wrong to say that we were the instrument of Islamic expansion into Pakistan and Hindustan.

If the Dilli Sultanat, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Mughals were the great face and spark of Islamic conquest, we were the fire which kept burning, the nameless soldiers that fell on that path as timbers, and the sword of Allah swt to cut down the enemy in his forts and his dwellings.

Rajputs violently resisted Islam for centuries, especially in Punjab, but once we became Muslim, we became the most fervent and devoted Muslims ready to put down our lives in any battle demanded by Allah swt, Rasool saws, and our Sultan.

Rajputs tend to be more anti Indian out of the Punjabi groups I met here in the diaspora also unlike other Punjabis they tend to get along with Pukhtoons as well I really should do more research about the Rajputs and their acchievments in the sub contienent

 

[ShaikhKamal]

The horse riding warlike Indo-Europeans were the real barbarian invaders that committed genocide and colonized northern South Asia by ethniclaly cleansing most of the original inhabitants. The original inhabitants of South Asia were the hunter gatherers who may be the ancestors of the Adivasis. The Iranian farmers of the Elamo-Dravidian culture migrated to South Asia and mixed with many of these hunter gatherers creating the proto-Dravidian culture, which formed the Ancient South Indians (ASI). The Dravidians created the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) centered in modern Pakistan and also parts of modern India. The Indo-European migrations from the Eurasian Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) after the collapse of Indus Valley Civilization pushed the Dravidian society and culture to the south while many northern Dravidian also mixed with the invading Indo-Aryans creating the Ancient North Indians (ANI). The Indo-Europeans Aryans culturally appropriated the Dravidian history and religion, mixed it with their beliefs and created Vedic Hinduism. They placed themselves at the top of the Caste System while the dark skinned Dravidians and Adivasis were placed lower in the caste system. There was continuous gene flow in both directions during more egalitarian Buddhist period when the caste system was weakened but it was later reinforced by the Hindu Gupta Empire. Nearly all the Hindu gods and goddesses are dark skinned as they were originally worshipped by the dark skinned aboriginal Adivasis and later by the Dravidians. There was no Sanskrit language during the reign of Emperor Ashoka Maurya (BCE 268 to 232) and Sanskrit was probably created by the Brahmans like the artificial Esperanto language in Europe. Ashoka wrote his famous edicts in only in the Prakrit language on more than 30 stone pillars around South Asia. If Sanskrit was the official, cultural or religious language of his empire then he would have used Sanskrit. That proves there was no Sanskrit at least upto to the time when Ashoka Maurya ruled India.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

So, let's clear one critical misconception "Sufi" didn't bring "Islam" to south Asia!
Just like Turks who came either for a greener pasture or conquest of Islam. Sufis sought greener pastures as well in newly conquered lands. It were easy preys so to speak. Sufi's had tumultuous years in Iraq. As Seljuks had destroyed many shrines including that of Abdulqadir Jillani(rebuilt again by Sultan Suleiman). People in South Asia eager to learn Islam were easily entrapped in a multi generational servitude. People who ruled South Asia and these Sufis was neither equal nor collaborative. Again another major misunderstanding is that Islam came in south Asia via Iraq or after one Bin Qasim, incorrect.
From north to south the conquest was from west(north west). Iran before Safavids was majority Sunni(hard to believe today) and was a source of these Sufis traversing and settling in south Asia. If it wasn't for turkics keeping Persian as court language it is likely that the current version of Urdu would have resembled Uzbek more closely.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

It also baffles my mind that why these central asian dynasties always chose to keep their main settlement in non-muslim areas of Delhi and its surrounding, it was purely out of greed because Ganga/Jamna doab was the most densely populated and prosperous area of north gangadesh and all these dynasties were greedy like hell and wanted to be always close to the main revenue areas of Ganga/Jamna doab despite knowing pretty well that the majority of the population in those areas was and still remain non-muslim. If these central asian ayash dynasties were so much bastion of islam and mulsims then they would have always kept their main settlement and capitals well within the modern Pakistani areas which were heavily mulsim dominated areas at that time. But the wealth and money was not so much in these areas of pakistan so they always preferred to keep their main capital in gangu telis areas of delhi and UP to satisfy their lust and greed of accumulating wealth.

You are correctly baffled! The idea of conquest was always to expand borders(Muslim borders). Most expanding tribes would always try to reside at the very edge of Muslim settlements. It was not only in South Asia the same pattern is seen in Anatolia. In fact that was modus operandi of both Mogul and Ottoman Empires!

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Actually what always intrigues me is that after 800 years rule of these central asian dynasties in Ganga/jamna doab area, the end result was that before 1947 the 80% of the population of that area was non-muslim, I think this tells us alot about the priorities of these so-called 800 years ruling muslim dynasties, spreading Islam in Ganga/Jamna doab under their so-called umbrella was surely never ever a priority for these dynasties.

That is not entirely correct. Most native settlements were small and spread across a vast area and the State's authority was established through forts and major settlements/cities. Secondly, most tribes that Hinduism termed as Kshatriya such as Rajputs and Jatts were themselves tribes settled much earlier from Central Asia and had mostly cultural affinity with what is today called Hinduism. These people where ever they had settled adopted religions as the tides turned meaning areas with Muslim suzerainty they became Muslims albeit culturally and similarly sikh and hindu according to their geographic location. This also puts the hindu argument to rest that they were converted forcefully. They were indeed beaten in the battlefield but not converted!

 

[waraich66]

From ancient times India/Hindustan was considered a rich country and a prime target for the military adventurers. The inscription on 'Naqshe-Rustam' in Iran describes Hindustan Satrapy as the richest province of the Achaemenid Empire.

As a student of history, I have read detailed accounts of all the warlords who invaded the subcontinent from Alexander the Great to Ahmed Shah Abdali. In my view, Alexander was just a megalomaniac out to prove that he was a reincarnation of Greek Heroes such as Achilles & Hercules.

Mahmud Ghaznavi only wanted the loot. Mohammed Ghori attacked Punjab primarily to expand his kingdom by ending the remnants of Ghaznavid State based at Lahore. Ostensibly, he conquered Delhi because he was invited to do so by the Jai Chand of Qanuj who had a personal grudge against Prithvi Raj.

Chagatai Mongols & Amir Taimur, as well as Nader Shah Afshar, were also after the riches. Babur, after losing his inheritance to Shaibani Khan Uzbeck, was looking for a new country to capture and rule.

The last invader; Ahmad Shah Abdali, was perhaps the only one who crossed the Indus to punish the Hindu Marathas.

” Past present: When the empire crumbled"
Mubarak Ali , August 25, 2013 “

“When the Muslim nobles did not respond to his appeal, he called upon Ahmad Shah Abdali to help materialise his scheme. He urged Abdali that it was his religious duty to help and save the Muslims when the Marathas attacked them. Consequently, the Marathas were defeated in the third battle of Panipat in 1762. It failed to revive the Mughal power in the subcontinent but helped the East India Company to gain power as Shah Waliullah had overlooked the growing influence of the British in the subcontinent.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1038270

Therefore, IMHO, Abdali, despite all of his atrocities, is the only one who could possibly be considered a “Hero” for the Muslims of the subcontinent. In some ways, Alauddin Khilji can also be considered a hero of the Indian subcontinent because he defeated the Mongol invaders and thus saved the local population from the horrible onslaught.

All the others did not have any sublime/ esoteric mission to be regarded as a hero. They were not barbarians either. Their behavior was no different than other military adventures of the day.

Regrettably, the history as written in the textbooks and taught in Pakistan, as well as in India, is given a ‘Spin’ to reflect the bias of the rulers of the day. For example, I was reading history in 1956, when most of the text books in use in Pakistani schools had been written during the Raj. In the history that I studied when I switched to Islamia High School Rawalpindi from the St Mary’s; described 1857 event as “ Ghadar” meaning rebellion whereas nowadays the same event is called “ Jang-e Azadi” or fight for freedom.

However the above are my views and may not necessarily be correct.

Good ,

 

[TMA]

No one is perfect brother. Even some Sahaba made mistakes. May Allah swt overlook their faults and grant them success.

Do not compare the Companions to these people. There are not in the same league. Slips are not the same as loot and plunder and destruction of places of worship. Not to mention racial arrogance....

i think MBQ invaded subcontinent in 781 i guess.


we really dont know why they come here. none of us were present at that time . most of us today read distorted history written by today's liberals and scholars like shiekh imran who have some game plan to work upon . yes they might have some material aims behind their expeditions but we cant say that it was the primary objective. the level of faith of muslims have been reducing since the time of Prophet Muhammad SAW. according to one of His saying the muslims of the time of the Prophet were the best muslims then those of the next generation and then the third generation. it means that the overall level of faith and understanding of islam will gradually reduce over time and we after 1400 yrs are just so called muslims who twist islam for our material benefits.

The game plan of INH is to understand Dajjal's strategy. For example when the Turkish President recently talked about wanting to reconvert the Hagia Sophia into a Masjid....he was falling for Dajjal's and the Gog & Magog led Zionist World Order's strategy.....