Alexander the Great/ Mauryans/ Graeco-Bactrians

[Joe Shearer]

I said mixture. We do have Greek, Arab, and other mixing from the time they ruled us.

Yes, I did read my link. You can try to search as much as you wish to justify your rejection of our history. Not my problem.

Arain, the second largest Punjabi group, for example, are patrilineal Arabs.

'Your' rejection of 'our' history.

That Pakistani member has given us the most convincing argument in favour of Pakistan's case on Jammu & Kashmir that it has been my misfortune to encounter. His final argument could not, in fact, be answered, and I am still looking for a legal trained person to rebut his position.

I don't see where you have done anything even remotely comparable, other than this truly odious melange that resembles nothing so much as the same revisionist Hindu historians that you are so fond of castigating.

Anyway, we are veering off topic.

What is the topic? It is drifting itself.

Mauryans have been re-written by modern Indian revisionists as an Indian Hindu government striving for Akhand Bharata and Hindutva.

You have the Hindu right promoting Asoka as some great Hindu leader defeating Pakistanis and Afghans and conqueroring parts of Iran, etc.

Asoka was a staunch Buddhist and an enemy of Hinduism, in reality. Also, he and the other Mauryan rulers were heavily influenced by the Greeks whom they were fighting back and forth during this period.

They were not saviors and champions of Hinduism as Indian propaganda would like us to believe. Their rule over The Pakistan was transient and loose, as well.

It is clear that you have not read a single serious work on history; what you have said above is not to be found except in the web pages that amateurs infest, amateurs from both sides, videos on YouTube, for instance, the visual equivalents of pages from Wikipedia, or blogs by wildly enthusiastic engineers in the painful process of re-discovering history.

Not a single statement made by you can be traced to any respectable text.

It is nothing short of disgraceful to concoct these mythical sources, ascribe your own prejudices and bigotry to them and present them as history.

You do nothing but embarrass those members who have demonstrated a firm grip on their country's history; Niaz Sahib, Indus Pakistan and M. Sarmad prominent among them, Kambojaric on specific topics on which his knowledge is deep and fathomless. My sincere respect for their views is sadly eroded by the destructive posts of untrained, unread amateurs.

Forefathers of Pakistanis were primarily a mixture of IVC inhabitants and various peoples that migrated into the Indus Region.

I would say that Arabs, Turks, Greeks and "Mughals" had an extremely limited impact in terms to genetic contribution.

You have caught me by surprise, but that is the balanced view. Among the migrants, I suppose you are counting the Scythians and the Parthians, and the Kushana who followed. It is difficult to add to or to subtract from your summation.

@M. Sarmad

 

[Pakistani E]

Great cartoons. Unfortunately, the history it projects is also a Hollywood version.

Well, I don't disagree. Some aspects of history go so far back in time, that all we can do is project our own views on what we find. IVC is one of them.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Pakistan, North and Central India have shared history, people who can't see it need to actually start reading some books and perhaps get their DNA tested.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Well, I don't disagree. Some aspects of history go so far back in time, that all we can do is project our own views on what we find. IVC is one of them.

The problem is that the Indian government is firing on all cylinders when it comes to appropriating IVC and cities like Taxila, Gandhara.

Bollywood and the Indian media/government are pumping out relentless propaganda to claim our history and our civilization, and at the same time trying to deny us Pakistanis any link to it.

We Pakistanis are held back by our own people who cannot formulate a cohesive historical narrative, and it really shows in our an ability to project our softpower.

Alhamdulilah, the PTI government has begun the great task of opening up more sites and providing more resources to foreign/domestic tourists to improve Pakistan’s own understanding of its history and for the world to acknowledge it.

Imran Khan is doing wonders for our global image of “Ancient Pakistan.” I am excited to be living in this time.

We finally are able to cut through the propaganda and form a cohesive historical narrative based on our history as one of the world’s breadbaskets, first civilizations.

A dynamic history which included so many different actors who set their foot on our soil and each one left their mark to give us our rich culture.

Pakistan, North and Central India have shared history, people who can't see it need to actually start reading some books and perhaps get their DNA tested.

Pakistan and neighboring states like Indian Punjab, Rajasthan, yes.

We also share much in common with Afghanistan, perhaps more as 25% of our population has an origin there and we have been united together for most of our history.

We also share much in culture with Turkey/Turks and Iran, as well, due to Islamic empires’ links.

Why reject all our linkages for only the Indian one?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well, I don't disagree. Some aspects of history go so far back in time, that all we can do is project our own views on what we find. IVC is one of them.

No, no, champ, things have improved enormously in the last sixty years. We now know where the city builders came from, we know their genetics, we have a clue as to where the defeated citizens of the dying cities went. There is also a great deal of convergence on the famous language mystery.

Things are nowhere as bad.

 

[saiyan0321]

serious work on history;

Books and writers plz

 

[Joe Shearer]

Books and writers plz

After 8?

 

[saiyan0321]

After 8?

Yeah sure... Just tag me..

 

[M. Sarmad]

I would say that Arabs, Turks, Greeks and "Mughals" had an extremely limited impact in terms to genetic contribution.

That's what I had been trying to tell our Arab/Turk wannabe friends here.
Thanks

Forefathers of Pakistanis were primarily a mixture of IVC inhabitants and various peoples that migrated into the Indus Region.

Were the above-mentioned people/group of people the forefathers of Pakistanis only? or were they also the forefathers of an equal (if not more) number of Indians (the citizens of the present-day Republic of India)?

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes, I got it the first time that you disagree with the author.

Let’s discuss the topic shall we. Greek history of Pakistan is a very interesting topic, many Pakistanis don’t know much about it.

We need to promote our history among our people, not everything began with Muhammad bin Qasim RAA.



Check out this account of the battle by Greek historian Diodorus Siculus:

“Some of the Macedonians were trodden under foot, armour and all, by the beasts and died, their bones crushed. Others were caught up by the elephants' trunks and, lifted on high, were dashed back down to the ground again, dying a fearful death. Many soldiers were pierced through by the tusks and died instantly, run through the whole body. Nevertheless the Macedonians faced the frightening experience manfully. They used their long spears to good effect against the Indians stationed beside the elephants, and kept the battle even. Then, as javelins began to find their marks in the sides of the great beasts and they felt the pains of the wounds, the Indian riders were no longer able to control their movements. The elephants veered and, no longer manageable, turned upon their own ranks and trampled friendly troops."

Hi,

It is obviously face saving here---. Alexander's army got smashed by Raja Porus---.

Alexander's behavior after the battle shows that he is running out the area with his military---they are escaping on boats---which is the surest and fastest way of getting out of the arena---as infantry cannot move fast enough---,

No military in the history of the conquest of frontier and punjab has ever stopped its progress down for further conquests after it had taken over these two areas---because after that---the going gets easier and there exists a massive opportunity of loot and plunder---.

So---this was basically a leaderless military who commander in chief had been taken out---.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Hi,

It is obviously face saving here---. Alexander's army got smashed by Raja Porus---.

Alexander's behavior after the battle shows that he is running out the area with his military---they are escaping on boats---which is the surest and fastest way of getting out of the arena---as infantry cannot move fast enough---,

No military in the history of the conquest of frontier and punjab has ever stopped its progress down for further conquests after it had taken over these two areas---because after that---the going gets easier and there exists a massive opportunity of loot and plunder---.

So---this was basically a leaderless military who commander in chief had been taken out---.

Yes brother, Raja Porus and his Punjabi soldiers were heroic in their battle with the Greeks and caused massive casualties.

The Greeks described it that they produced one Alexander but every man in this land was an Alexander.

This was also the same thing which the Mughals faced. Babur was so thoroughly impressed by the military prowess of Punjabis and Rajputs that he inducted them in his military and intermarried his family with them.

Punjab had always been the proving ground for various tribes and only the most battle hardened and brave could survive of the constant warfare in this region.

Our ancestors from the very beginning (IVC and onwards) faced constant migrations, invasions, and internecine warfare. This chiseled our nation into a martial one.

 

[LeGenD]

Hi,

The truth to the fact is that Alexander got his ar-se handed to him by Raja Porus---and escaped with his military---.

Possibly got killed by an arrow close to he city of Multan @ Tulamba and had his death hidden from the troops---till they reached boated down the river Indus to the arabian sea---.

Alexander never showed any kindness to a king that he defeated---his militaries looted and pillaged all their conquests----so givinh Porus his kingdom back is a fantasy story propagated by the greeks---.

Who would want to admit that the Great Alexander got killed at Tulamba after getting a hiding from raja Porus---no greek would admit to that---.

Care to provide PROOF of this revisionist nonsense?

Throughout ages, conquerors have appointed "client kings" to govern distant lands on their behalf, and it made sense to retain popular regional rulers in this capacity.

Well-researched account of the Battle of Hydaspes:
https://www.ancient.eu/article/660/battle-of-hydaspes/

Alexander's conquest spree was way too ambitious in his era (from Macedonia to Indus river). However, Alexander's thirst for conquest was checked by his injuries and resultant infections in the end.

He was planning to subjugate entire subcontinent and Middle East with [fresh] armies, but his injuries got the better of him and his successors were too busy backstabbing each other; they even killed Alexander's son.

Up to his time, nobody in history even came close to matching Alexander's tactical brilliance in warfare and span of conquest. Don't be naive.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Well researched account of the Battle of Hydaspes

Rubbish article lacking basic consistency.

 

[LeGenD]

Rubbish article lacking basic consistency.

Still better (and more accurate) than any revisionist nonsense.

FYI:

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Were the above-mentioned people/group of people the forefathers of Pakistanis only?

How many countries do you know that are exclusively the descendants of a proto population?

were they also the forefathers of an equal (if not more) number of Indians (the citizens of the present-day Republic of India)?

Why are you so constipated over Indians? To address the question you made only a small % of India would have impact from IVC. Arabs invaded Europe [Iberia] but you don't find their legacy in other end of Europe [Scandanavia].