AJK opposes giving provincial status to GB

[WAJsal]

You are from GB?

Yes sir. Dad's from Gilgit-city and mom's from Ghizer, Yasin. Grandparent's from Hunza and different places. Was born in Gilgit city.

 

[haviZsultan]

Yes sir. Dad's from Gilgit-city and mom's from Ghizer, Yasin. Grandparent's from Hunza and different places. Was born in Gilgit city.

Then your words count. So do most people in GB want the creation of a province there? This is by the way similar to demands from FATA where people want either a new province or merger with KP

 

[WAJsal]

Then your words count. So do most people in GB want the creation of a province there?

I am surprised you are even asking. One of the reason why GB acceded with Pakistan was that GB would be given same right's as the rest of the Pakistan.
GB doesn't share the same right's as the rest of the country. No seats in NA and Senate. Legislative assembly has no power, center in control at all times, few or no power with legislative assembly. Now they are long, but quite informative. While going through you will realize all the mistakes Pakistan has and still is making in that region. People are die hard Pakistanis and want the right's as the rest of the region. Even the constitution is not giving this region protection, no clear mention of GB as integral part of Pakistan. People are fed up and want to make their own choices.
I hope you read these. Very informative
for more details read these: Territorial limits
Gilgit as a fifth province

Yes because of Dogra rule and GB was liberated from Dogras in year 1949.
In November 1839: Beginning of the campaign of Zorawar Singh against Baltistan. 1839/1840: Conquest of Skardu and capture of Ahmad Shah. Ahmad Shah was forced to accompany Zorawar Singh on his raid into Western Tibet. Appointment of Baghwan Singh as administrator (Thanadar) in Skardu. 1841: Successful uprising against the Dogras in Baltistan led by Ali Khan of Rondu, Haidar Khan of Shigar, and Daulat Ali Khan from Khaplu. Capture of the Dogra commander Baghwan Singh in Skardu. 1842: The second conquest of Baltistan by the Dogra Commander Wasir Lakhpat with the active support of Ali Sher Khan (III) from lKartaksho. Bloody capture of the fortress of Kharphocho. Haidar Khan from Shigar, one of the leaders of the uprising against the Dogra, was imprisoned and died in captivity. Gosaun was appointed as administrator (Thanadar) for Baltistan and til 1860, the entire region of Gilgit-Baltistan was conquered by the Sikhs and the Dogras. It was the Dogras who incorporated Gilgit-Baltistan into Kashmir even though the people of the region are more closely related to those of Ladakh and Chitral.After the defeat of the Sikhs in the First Anglo-Sikh War, it became a part of the princely state with the name Jammu and Kashmir in 1846 under the rule of the Dogras who ruled the more than a century. It remained so till a rebellion, organized by a mutineered Major Brown of the Gilgit Scouts overthrew Ghansara Singh, the Governor administering the region on behalf of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir on 1 November 1947, and temporarily installed an unrecognized state of their own. Raja Shah Rais Khan became the President while Mirza Hassan Khan the Commander-in-Chief of the Gilgit scouts. The region had run its own government for 16 days but later on the approval of local residents, unconditionally offered Pakistan to take over the administration. Also After Pakistan's independence, Jammu and Kashmir initially remained an independent state. Later On 22 October 1947, due to India's interest towards the Muslim majority state of Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistani armed forces crossed the border in Jammu and Kashmir with the claim that they needed to suppress a rebellion on the southeast of the kingdom. Local tribal militias and the Pakistani armed forces moved to take Srinagar but on reaching Uri they encountered defensive forces. Hari Singh made a plea to India for assistance and signed the Instrument of Accession. The British government also took part in stopping the Pakistani forces from advancing. On 20 January 1948, the UN passed a resolution which called for the withdrawal of both countries forces from Jammu and Kashmir, however a part of it (Known as Azad Kashmir) has remained under the control of Pakistan since then. In 1970 the two part territory was merged into a single administrative unit, and given the name "Northern Areas". This was actually first used by the United Nations to refer to the northern areas of Kashmir. The Shaksgam tract was ceded by Pakistan to China following the signing of the Sino-Pakistani Frontier Agreement in 1963.


The last Maqpon Raja Ahmed Shah (died in prison in Srinagar by Dograrulers. around 1845)
Before the demise of Shribadat, a group of Shin people migrated from Gilgit Dardistan and settled in the Dras and Kharmang areas. The descendants of those Dardic people can be still found today, and is believed that they have maintained their Dardic culture and Shina language up to the present time.

I know the history of the region, maybe forgot to tag you here. more on Page 6.
How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated .

The descendants of those Dardic people can be still found today, and is believed that they have maintained their Dardic culture and Shina language up to the present time.

Is believed, lol sir ji my father can speak Shina and is from that part of GB. In fact i can speak it too, mostly understand it have gotten quite weak at it. Mother language is Khowar.
Thank's for the detailed post.

 

[Burhan Wani]

I know the history of the region, maybe forgot to tag you here. more on Page 6.
How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated .

Is believed, lol sir ji my father can speak Shina and is from that part of GB. In fact i can speak it too, mostly understand it have gotten quite weak at it. Mother language is Khowar.
Thank's for the detailed post.

You know about Mirza Hassan Khan's " the Commander-in-Chief of the Gilgit scouts"involvement in GB liberation?

 

[unleashed]

GB should be made a province, period. I don't understand this concern. GB deserves to be given a provincial status, it's been a long time coming.
No Senate NA representation, Legislative assembly has no power, a complete joke. High time Gilgitis get a status they so richly deserve.

A sane voice..

Gilgit-Baltistan is part and parcel of the state of Jammu and Kashmir

I feel pity on kashmiris, What is their contribution to Pakitisan apart from giving bunch of corrupt Politicians

 

[Kabira]

You have no idea what you're talking about, mirpuris are only in mirpur which one district, and they are ethnically same as all people of AJK, they pahri speakers and culturally distinct from people from IoK, they are native to their land since centuries and thousands of years, AJK was called Poonch before 1948

North AJK is mostly extension of G-B and IoK valley with majority being dard people if I am not wrong.

 

[haviZsultan]

I am surprised you are even asking. One of the reason why GB acceded with Pakistan was that GB would be given same right's as the rest of the Pakistan.
GB doesn't share the same right's as the rest of the country. No seats in NA and Senate. Legislative assembly has no power, center in control at all times, few or no power with legislative assembly. Now they are long, but quite informative. While going through you will realize all the mistakes Pakistan has and still is making in that region. People are die hard Pakistanis and want the right's as the rest of the region. Even the constitution is not giving this region protection, no clear mention of GB as integral part of Pakistan. People are fed up and want to make their own choices.
I hope you read these. Very informative
for more details read these: Territorial limits
Gilgit as a fifth province


I know the history of the region, maybe forgot to tag you here. more on Page 6.
How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated .

Is believed, lol sir ji my father can speak Shina and is from that part of GB. In fact i can speak it too, mostly understand it have gotten quite weak at it. Mother language is Khowar.
Thank's for the detailed post.

I am in favor of each region being ruled by its own people so I sympathize with talk of hazara province, FATA as a province/merged with KPK and Gilgit Baltistan being given equal privilages as should kashmir. I think we need to devolve power to the lowest level to get results and each province should be ruling itself-not only that but there should be more provinces.

Its terrible that the land that produced Hassan Jarral and Lalak Jan does not have equal rights. I have also heard of baba sahab who is in jail just for raising the question of rights and asking for compensation for the lake disaster. Then we have the issue of sunni terrorists in a region that is predominantly shia. I wish we developed a mindset where equality was the keyword. Very hurt that you do not have equal rights.

But I also think something has to be done about kashmir too. Its a fact that kashmiris on Pakistani side want merger with Pakistan so just hold an election and make the region a province, @waz can confirm.

 

[waz]

I feel pity on kashmiris, What is their contribution to Pakitisan apart from giving bunch of corrupt Politicians

Quite a big contribution actually. Had our forefathers not liberated what is called Azad Kashmir, Indian armoured divisions would be sitting opposite Rawalpindi.....The strategic nature of the region is invaluable and Pakistan wouldn't have been defendable had this region not been with the federation. I'm not even going to go into that 13% of AJK people make up the forces, even though it's the smallest population in Pakistan, that it has the highest literacy rate in the region by a large margin. Other factors such as a patriotic population that has never seen an armed revolt, we have no terrorism in our region or sympathy for them, which can be found everywhere else in Pakistan. What about Mangla dam and other projects that are and will contribute greatly to Pakistan's power generation? AJK's people have borne the brunt of these for the greater good.
I can go on.

 

[Cent4]

I am in favor of each region being ruled by its own people so I sympathize with talk of hazara province, FATA as a province/merged with KPK and Gilgit Baltistan being given equal privilages as should kashmir. I think we need to devolve power to the lowest level to get results and each province should be ruling itself-not only that but there should be more provinces.

Its terrible that the land that produced Hassan Jarral and Lalak Jan does not have equal rights. I have also heard of baba sahab who is in jail just for raising the question of rights and asking for compensation for the lake disaster. Then we have the issue of sunni terrorists in a region that is predominantly shia. I wish we developed a mindset where equality was the keyword. Very hurt that you do not have equal rights.

But I also think something has to be done about kashmir too. Its a fact that kashmiris on Pakistani side want merger with Pakistan so just hold an election and make the region a province, @waz can confirm.

What I dont understand is that what "negative" impact will by giving them a provincial status have on Pakistan's position on IOK.

 

[waz]

I am in favor of each region being ruled by its own people so I sympathize with talk of hazara province, FATA as a province/merged with KPK and Gilgit Baltistan being given equal privilages as should kashmir. I think we need to devolve power to the lowest level to get results and each province should be ruling itself-not only that but there should be more provinces.

Its terrible that the land that produced Hassan Jarral and Lalak Jan does not have equal rights. I have also heard of baba sahab who is in jail just for raising the question of rights and asking for compensation for the lake disaster. Then we have the issue of sunni terrorists in a region that is predominantly shia. I wish we developed a mindset where equality was the keyword. Very hurt that you do not have equal rights.

But I also think something has to be done about kashmir too. Its a fact that kashmiris on Pakistani side want merger with Pakistan so just hold an election and make the region a province, @waz can confirm.

I share your sentiments and our cousins in GB should be given the right to merge. I know the whole thing about where we stand regarding the "disputed territory" issue but the will of the people should be listened to. But the negative here is that it will strengthen the Indian proposal to make the LOC as the IB and the Kashmiri cause/case book will be closed forever.

What I dont understand is that what "negative" impact will by giving them a provincial status have on Pakistan's position on IOK.

See my post bro.
It basically means that Pakistan does not recognise GB as disputed territory, as per the UN mandate, where as Indian states the entire region, including AJK is disputed. If Pakistan takes this step then India will say they have no reason to term their area of Kashmir as "disputed", hence they will declare everything nullified.

 

[Kabira]

I don't know what he means here, AJK and G-B are already separate. How does AJK parliament get to decide fate of G-B? Maybe his PTI lota side is speaking here

It basically means that Pakistan does not recognise GB as disputed territory, as per the UN mandate, where as Indian states the entire region, including AJK is disputed. If Pakistan takes this step then India will say they have no reason to term their area of Kashmir as "disputed", hence they will declare everything nullified.

From what I have read, G-B people want to be in National Assembly. And right to become PM/President/COAS of country one day. They don't want their fate connected to AJK issue.

Quite a big contribution actually. Had our forefathers not liberated what is called Azad Kashmir, Indian armoured divisions would be sitting opposite Rawalpindi.....The strategic nature of the region is invaluable and Pakistan wouldn't have been defendable had this region not been with the federation. I'm not even going to go into that 13% of AJK people make up the forces, even though it's the smallest population in Pakistan, that it has the highest literacy rate in the region by a large margin. Other factors such as a patriotic population that has never seen an armed revolt, we have no terrorism in our region or sympathy for them, which can be found everywhere else in Pakistan. What about Mangla dam and other projects that are and will contribute greatly to Pakistan's power generation? AJK's people have borne the brunt of these for the greater good.
I can go on.

Can't imagine "Indian border" just few km away in Bhimber, thank god for AJK

 

[Cent4]

I share your sentiments and our cousins in GB should be given the right to merge. I know the whole thing about where we stand regarding the "disputed territory" issue but the will of the people should be listened to. But the negative here is that it will strengthen the Indian proposal to make the LOC as the IB and the Kashmiri cause/case book will be closed forever.



See my post bro.
It basically means that Pakistan does not recognise GB as disputed territory, as per the UN mandate, where as Indian states the entire region, including AJK is disputed. If Pakistan takes this step then India will say they have no reason to term their area of Kashmir as "disputed", hence they will declare everything nullified.

But if the whole "naturalisation" process is done by doing a referendum, wouldn’t that put pressure on India to do the same?

 

[waz]

But if the whole "naturalisation" process is done by doing a referendum, wouldn’t that put pressure on India to do the same?

Well they say there is no need for a referendum, as per their elections in Kashmir, and the with the official recognition and incorporation of GB, they will say that this recognises that attention to the dispute is unwarrented and that the border should be the LOC.

 

[Sneaker]

The whole of Northern Areas, which include Gilgit Agency and Baltistan Agency, was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir State in August 1947.

What!!?? You can't change facts to suit your ideology. GB was very much part of J&K on Aug 15, 1947. It seceded from J&K on 1 Nov, even that isn't recognized by anyone except Pakistan, may be.

It remained so till a rebellion, organized by a mutineered Major Brown of the Gilgit Scouts overthrew Ghansara Singh, the Governor administering the region on behalf of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir on 1 November 1947

 

[Cent4]

Well they say there is no need for a referendum, as per their elections in Kashmir, and the with the official recognition and incorporation of GB, they will say that this recognises that attention to the dispute is unwarrented and that the border should be the LOC.

I personally think that the whole Kashmir issue is not being handled properly. We should be clear about what our end objectives are.


The issue has been ignored for far too long, some of the fault lies with our current and previous rulers. Nawaz and BB didn’t do anything concrete to resolve it. Nawaz only see the $ in the trade with India. Mushi also didn't had the balls to do what should have been done. Even though I am a PTI supporter but I don’t think that IK will do anything to resolve it.


The "special" status given to GB and AJK should be taken away and they both should be made separate provinces. People of AJK are mostly very educated and patriotic, but some those living abroad don’t even consider themselves as Pakistani. A referendum should be held in GB and AJK to make them both provinces. I don’t believe the perception that our "diplomatic" position will be weakened. Our diplomatic stance has achieved nothing so far. I think that this perception has been created by India in a believe that if AJK and GB don't have the same status as other provinces then over a period of time differences between them and Pakistan can be created. While on the other hand they are doing everything in their power to make IOK part of India.


It is not fair on the people of IOK that this issue has been dragged for this long. The people of IOK who have been martyred in IOK to date should produce some results, the whole world owes this to them.


There should be call for civil disobedience and fierce armed rebellion in IOK. Leaders of APHC have failed to achieve concrete results.