AirBlue Commercial Aircraft Crashes in Islamabad

[mean_bird]

Seems i missed the news report about the out come of black box data!

So what did it said... what went wrong and what about the conversation of pilot and control tower?

The investigation has found the cause of the crash and the report is out. However, as has been the case with CAA, the report is not going to be made public and hence, you and I, will never know for sure what happened.

Someone needs to take this to court so that all air-crash investigation reports till date (and in future) be made public. Given that the govt. and ministry of defence do not like things being made public, and the other party, Airblue, is owned by a member of PMLN--the party that would have been interested in making such a case--there is little hope such a thing will happen.

 

[BATMAN]

^^ All ministries belong to Zardari and Gilani, and justice shall come out of Iftikhar ch. only they are to be blamed and God bless Pakistan.

Anyhow, This case was not a simple crash... the pilot was refused landing or forced to pull-up just before touch down.

This was also not the only plane crash around that period.

 

[SQ8]

The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued..
entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.

 

[BATMAN]

The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued..
entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.

Well it's not crystal clear to me at-least! and where did you got your story?

Definitely not from information ministry.

 

[SQ8]

Well it's not crystal clear to me at-least! and where did you got your story?

Definitely not from information ministry.

Airblue pilots..
and other personnel at PALPA.

 

[BATMAN]

Airblue pilots..
and other personnel at PALPA.

Which part?

There is lots of controversy surrounding this plane, it is not enough for Airblue pilots to speak to your highness in person.
They need to go public with evidence i.e. black box.

 

[mean_bird]

The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued..
entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.

Airplanes don't just crash like that. There are a lot of safety checks and redundancies so it has to be more specific chain of events than just saying "pilot fatigue". And why would he "refuse to listen"?

And what lessons, if any, then have been learnt from this? Or is it just...yeah, pilot was fatigued and thus flew straight into the mountains while co-pilot was uselessly screaming...no big deal, lets get over it?

Besides, the co-pilot also has an identical control to have acted on his own. The air-traffic controller can see the plane wearing off course and the plane also have built-in systems to warn against ground clearance. Also, you usually have to select an airport rather than enter the nav point at take-off. You only select the way points in-between by entering the nav points. Also there is the DME, and you have clear landing charts and don't forget they were doing the alternate approach where you do the go-around. Clearly, you do not enter those points at take-off.

So its not clear at all let alone crystal clear. And no CAA does not have a history of revealing reports or detailed causes of crashes so its got nothing to do with pilots families.

 

[hembo]

Do Pakistan have a "right to information" act, under which, GOP is bound to provide full & correct information available with them (unless related to national safety) if asked?

 

[SQ8]

Airplanes don't just crash like that. There are a lot of safety checks and redundancies so it has to be more specific chain of events than just saying "pilot fatigue". And why would he "refuse to listen"?

And what lessons, if any, then have been learnt from this? Or is it just...yeah, pilot was fatigued and thus flew straight into the mountains while co-pilot was uselessly screaming...no big deal, lets get over it?

Besides, the co-pilot also has an identical control to have acted on his own. The air-traffic controller can see the plane wearing off course and the plane also have built-in systems to warn against ground clearance. Also, you usually have to select an airport rather than enter the nav point at take-off. You only select the way points in-between by entering the nav points. Also there is the DME, and you have clear landing charts and don't forget they were doing the alternate approach where you do the go-around. Clearly, you do not enter those points at take-off.

So its not clear at all let alone crystal clear. And no CAA does not have a history of revealing reports or detailed causes of crashes so its got nothing to do with pilots families.

Sir ji..
Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
In his words..
The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course..
Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members.. like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet.
The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...
Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..
This is the story that seems plausible to me.
As far as what was learnt..
too much authority resides with the Captain..
and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..
But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.

 

[mean_bird]

Sir ji..
Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
In his words..
The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course..
Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members.. like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet.
The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...
Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..
This is the story that seems plausible to me.
As far as what was learnt..
too much authority resides with the Captain..
and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..
But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.

I am afraid then you didn't get my point.

I am in no way advocating for alqaeda, blackwater, stinger, etc...not at all. In fact, the most common cause of plane crashes is pilot error. Further, this certainly won't be the first case of a professional crew ending up with a classical CFIT accident.

The point is its not only important to know how but also why. And also what should be done to improve safety. Clearly something somewhere failed for this crash to have happened. So just categorizing it as "fatigue" or "captain outwitted his plane" is not an acceptable answer. Nor is it crystal clear unless we have the answer to why a professional, experienced captain ended up doing that? and how a whole set of safety measures were "out-wittingly" breached?

Unless this is clearly answered, I am afraid we are just waiting for another pilot to "outwit" his plane and end up with the same fate.

 

[Jango]

an airplane crash cannot be totally blamed on the pilot fatigue....pilot ignorance...or anything else....theres a reason that there are two pilots in the cockpit....an airplane crash has a series of events behind it that cause a crash....

 

[BATMAN]

Sir ji..
Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
In his words..
The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course..

Highlighted part of your statement hints that you are relying more on heresy than the few known facts.
Plane had already once abandoned his landing approach without any known reason.
In his re-approach he went way too off course........ i would call such pilot passed out rather fatigued.
Way too much time and reasons for the co-pilot to act, unless he was also passed out.

Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members..

Now what is this! counter argument to your self?

like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet.
The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...

Fair enough... all what we are asking is to disclose the data of black box and conversation details of cockpit and tower.

Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..

You are not offering enough choices... but you insist you are not shoving it down the throat!
Its like 'are you with us or against us'

This is the story that seems plausible to me.

Not to us, actually your story does not go along with the course of events.
Moust un-plausible thing about your story is you didn't ask, even basic counter questions?

As far as what was learnt..
too much authority resides with the Captain..
and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..

Now you are pleading your case..

But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.

You are a mod at pdf........... you must be a royalty or working for royalty.