Air Force Question Thread

[HAIDER]

Yesterday news, Dutch sold their recently MLU F16s to Chile. Why Pakistan didn't come forward for the bid ?

 

[Muradk]

Yesterday news, Dutch sold their recently MLU F16s to Chile. Why Pakistan didn't come forward for the bid ?

Haider we can't buy American fighters without there permission, I would be surprise if we get anything from Uncle Sam.

 

[SQ8]

We needed permission from the US Congress just to sell our older T-37's to Bangladesh.

 

[Imran Khan]

I don't think so .there is huge strategic difference between f-16 and t-37

 

[Arsalan]

I don't think so .there is huge strategic difference between f-16 and t-37

well sir regardless of the difference in there abilities, they are US origin planea and we cannot do anything to them without uncle sams permission, selling them is impossible with out there permission!!!

that is why i am against US equipment!!

i wish the same policy continues with indians and that surely will become a HUGEE problem for them

 

[Imran Khan]

you right but there is dirty politcs involve there .US blackmail US sanction an US broke deals after paid.its US history we have to learn from history.i am pretty fan of falcone but i see with open eyes USA never delever them to pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

I consider this post as malicious. Please do not forget that we have the brightest minds working to achieve the best. They take every consideration in to account before a decision is made within the limited resources the government offers. Further more, LM and Boeing have several facilities outside US including Pakistan for it's commercial aircrafts. PAC manufactures aviation parts for Boeing 747, 767 and 777 aircrafts.

H Z9,

My good man, it is not a malicious post---PAC does not manufacture parts in the sense that I get from your post---PAC fabricates them from the machines they have purchased from the u s, technology that they have learnt from the u s, personale that have been trained in the u s or in pakistan by the u s personale---.

The brightest of the minds need to pointed and directed towards the right direction for them, to give appropriate results---at the end of the day---we will be judged by the results and not by our resources.

 

[MastanKhan]

you right but there is dirty politcs involve there .US blackmail US sanction an US broke deals after paid.its US history we have to learn from history.i am pretty fan of falcone but i see with open eyes USA never delever them to pakistan.

Hi Imran Khan,

You are absolutely correct in your assessment---but the onus falls upon us to counter the threat of u s sanctions before hand---don't you think that it is not appropriate to blame the u s all the time for its sanctions----don't you think that it becomes our responsibility more so, if we get entrapped for the upteenth time.

What do you expect if you put your hand on the back of a scorpion----you get stung---one time---ok---but if happens the tenth time---should we be telling anyone about the sanctions at all---don't you think that we would be the butt of jokes for everyone listening.

For next time---get equipment in advance---and pay upon delivery----or as I stated one time----LEARN TO TRAVEL THE DIFFERENT ROAD---learn to travel the road leading to PARIS---FRANCE

 

[mean_bird]

you right but there is dirty politcs involve there .US blackmail US sanction an US broke deals after paid.its US history we have to learn from history.i am pretty fan of falcone but i see with open eyes USA never delever them to pakistan.

I agree.

But the better idea would have been to not go the US way in the first place i.e order the 18 blk-52. Just get the 60MLU kits and have it done by whoever was willing to do it at the earliest. There are some advantages of going for 18 new F-16s since we have operated the plane for so long, have all the training and infrastructure and operated around 32 of them as compared to going for just 18 planes of a totally different platform.

Considering just the upgrade for those Mirages are costing $20m a copy, I don't think that would be an affordable option for us unless UAE is selling them real cheap for some strange reason. Personally I suspect France will buy them back and give them the Rafale.

Regarding Dutch F-16, I don't know why PAF didn't try for them knowing that PAF was considering second-hand F-16s from US or from other Partner nations (Belgium?) back around 2-3 yrs ago. I am pretty sure even those would have involved US permission first. One reason I can think of is the economic condition. You cannot ask for aid money from one hand while spending on fighter jets with another, not unless you have a pretty strong leadership.

 

[SQ8]

There may be a huge difference but they fall under the same laws, therefore when we wanted to transfer these aircraft to Bangladesh a request was sent to the congress for the approval of this transfer and it was voted on by congress.
ONLY then was this transfer approved. Albeit there is a difference, Congress had little objection to us giving 45 year old airframes to another third world country.
Match that up with a new fighter.. and there will be many objections and many NAYs in the vote.

 

[z9-ec]

H Z9,

My good man, it is not a malicious post---PAC does not manufacture parts in the sense that I get from your post---PAC fabricates them from the machines they have purchased from the u s, technology that they have learnt from the u s, personale that have been trained in the u s or in pakistan by the u s personale---.

Exactly, my point sir. Being assembled in Peru does not necessarily mean the service is below par by any means as they are trained by LM/Boeing for this very reason. I never said that the aviation parts we made for Boeing were indigenous but were made in Pakistan regardless of the machinery being used.

Nonetheless, I agree, I may have come out a bit harsh on qsaark.

The brightest of the minds need to pointed and directed towards the right direction for them, to give appropriate results---at the end of the day---we will be judged by the results and not by our resources.

Completely agree with you on this one.

 

[qsaark]

Qsaark Friend I am sorry for being rude, I was in a totally different state of mind when I replied and hope you will forgive me. I hope we will end up as very good friends as a token of friendship please send me your email through pm, Will send you a collectors photo of JF-17 Just for you.

Please, you do not owe me any apology. Even my sentence was sarcastic, and you only replied to that. It is graciousness and kindness of Mastan Saheb that he thinks this high of me....in fact this reflects his own personality, a person who can said such words for a person with whom he has been into bitter dialogues, is indeed a respectable person. I'll PM you my Email to receive your 'token of friendship'. Thanks in advance and no hard feelings.

 

[hj786]

I agree.

But the better idea would have been to not go the US way in the first place i.e order the 18 blk-52. Just get the 60MLU kits and have it done by whoever was willing to do it at the earliest. There are some advantages of going for 18 new F-16s since we have operated the plane for so long, have all the training and infrastructure and operated around 32 of them as compared to going for just 18 planes of a totally different platform.

Considering just the upgrade for those Mirages are costing $20m a copy, I don't think that would be an affordable option for us unless UAE is selling them real cheap for some strange reason. Personally I suspect France will buy them back and give them the Rafale.

Regarding Dutch F-16, I don't know why PAF didn't try for them knowing that PAF was considering second-hand F-16s from US or from other Partner nations (Belgium?) back around 2-3 yrs ago. I am pretty sure even those would have involved US permission first. One reason I can think of is the economic condition. You cannot ask for aid money from one hand while spending on fighter jets with another, not unless you have a pretty strong leadership.

According to the inside sources at PakDef, PAF was forced to buy the block 52 in order to get AMRAAM released.

 

[HAIDER]

Whats underneath ...??

 

[mean_bird]

Whats underneath ...??

I believe it is for creating the colored smoke, but I could be wrong.