Air Force Question Thread

[Jango]

the story/news about the FLIR Herks was new to many. the DB-110's quick induction and photography of most of FATA was good news. ...

THe Herk FLIR came into public eye only after Kamra attack.

 

[Windjammer]

anything new in this article?

PUTTING PLANS TO THE TEST
The Pakistan Air Force is supporting the army in its efforts to rid the country of militants. Alan Warnes reports

Dec issue

AIR International: For the best in modern military and commercial aviation

Some information given in this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/220473-star-safire-brite-star-systems-paf.html

 

[Bratva]

THe Herk FLIR came into public eye only after Kamra attack.

Are you sure? Didn't it came into public eye when PAF chief disclosed in 2010 in which he told how many bombs have been dropped and how Herk FLIR is being deployed to monitor terrorist movements?

 

[Jango]

Are you sure? Didn't it came into public eye when PAF chief disclosed in 2010 in which he told how many bombs have been dropped and how Herk FLIR is being deployed to monitor terrorist movements?

I mean public, not in PDF eyes. By public i mean news channels and major coverage avenues. It was also the ifrst time it was seen in action.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Does PAF F 16s use drouge and probe refuelling or boom refuelling?

Does the PAF IL 78 tanker use the drouge refuelling or it can use also boom refuelling?

 

[fatman17]

Does PAF F 16s use drouge and probe refuelling or boom refuelling?

Does the PAF IL 78 tanker use the drouge refuelling or it can use also boom refuelling?

PAF F-16's have the plumbing (probe) for IFR but the IL-78 cannot mate with the F-16's (drouge) or basket.

 

[jahanzeb111]

i want to ask that our latest 18 (f16c/d block 52+) jets are of what use??? i mean we cant go out of our borders without the permission of usa, we cant fire on nato friendly opposition.
usa monitors our jets 24/7, there r jamming & tracking pods in 52+

if v r buying the jets then y not to buy those jets that could be flown anywhere without any restriction......

52+ r of what use, if not helpful in case of any attack.....???

 

[Last Hope]

i want to ask that our latest 18 (f16c/d block 52+) jets are of what use??? i mean we cant go out of our borders without the permission of usa, we cant fire on nato friendly opposition.
usa monitors our jets 24/7, there r jamming & tracking pods in 52+

if v r buying the jets then y not to buy those jets that could be flown anywhere without any restriction......

52+ r of what use, if not helpful in case of any attack.....???

They are just a gap replacement till J-10 and JF-17 Block II/III are ready which means atleast a decade.

 

[jahanzeb111]

i dont think that every airforce is under such a check&balance who is flying 52+
then y v????
these r not came in aid, v paid for them....

 

[Jango]

PAF F-16's have the plumbing (probe) for IFR but the IL-78 cannot mate with the F-16's (drouge) or basket.

As I understand, F-16's don't have a probe rather a receptacle. It isn't a probe and drogue system, rather a boom that fixes onto the receptacle.

 

[Pfpilot]

i want to ask that our latest 18 (f16c/d block 52+) jets are of what use??? i mean we cant go out of our borders without the permission of usa, we cant fire on nato friendly opposition.
usa monitors our jets 24/7, there r jamming & tracking pods in 52+

if v r buying the jets then y not to buy those jets that could be flown anywhere without any restriction......

52+ r of what use, if not helpful in case of any attack.....???

Hmm...the answers to all your questions are present in your post. Why would the US sell us fighters if the end result will be their use against American allies? The thinking that your post represents is precisely why there are restrictions. Restrictions that are relevant only if your goal is to rule all of Asia and bomb everyone from Israel to Russia. The reality is, the F-16s are capable of accomplishing the exact tasks that they would face in a realistic scenario. They are unstoppable against terrorists and will give the IAF a headache in any endeavor across the border. The restrictions then, are only relevant because of the ambitious thinking of PDF posters. Our conflicts are local and at most regional; and our struggle is theoretically defensive. So if one can accept that, then the puzzle pieces fit into place.

As the premier super power, the US pulls all the strings. Any equipment bought from them has implicit restrictions, whether we speak of Pakistan or Taiwan or Israel. Where there are hotspots and potential for conflict, they are far more vocal about what they are and aren't ok with. If we want, we can use these f-16s for all we want, but by attacking NATO ally, we would face a response that would overwhelm us. And neither the Rafale or Eurofighter would change that. You cannot buy from a nation and then cry foul when they'd prefer you didn't attack their closest allies. Lets not forget, India is so economically intertwined with America and for that matter China, you are going to be lucky to procure equipment that doesn't have some restrictions on its offensive use. Now how lenient that nation is depends on the wider relationship. But try using f-7s to bomb Pyongyang and see how the Chinese react. No nation will sell at the expense of its own long term needs and that of their allies. Israel gets a free hand because the nations it has disagreements with were part of the Soviet hegemony in the Middle East; hardly the nations the US will care for.

To defend ourselves, we can launch all the amraams the heart desires. But cross either border and you are actively defying the world the US perceives itself to be building and just ask Saddam how that turned out.

 

[muse]

So, can someone explain what use these F16 are? By accepting these F16, have Pakistan basically given over to the US their autonomy of action?

Not suggesting that we attack anybody, but if a foreign power has the say so in when and how these weapons systems can be used, why do we need a PAF or any kind of armed forces in Pakistan? Why should we keep feeding scare treasury funds to support these armed forces when they themselves belong not to the nation but to a foreign power??

Please, no offense intended, just explain

 

[SQ8]

So, can someone explain what use these F16 are? By accepting these F16, have Pakistan basically given over to the US their autonomy of action?

Not suggesting that we attack anybody, but if a foreign power has the say so in when and how these weapons systems can be used, why do we need a PAF or any kind of armed forces in Pakistan? Why should we keep feeding scare treasury funds to support these armed forces when they themselves belong not to the nation but to a foreign power??

Please, no offense intended, just explain

At no point has that happened. What you have is nothing more than the stench of yellow journalism going overboard with the oft repeated kill switches and what not. At no point are these weapons restricted in their usage except perhaps through power of words.

The only restrictions however are those based on curtailing plagiarism and stealing of technology by the Chinese or by the PAF for the Chinese. After all, the J-10 program owes a lot to the PAF's willingness to let the Chinese scan their F-16s inside out.
To prevent that from happening again, the US has put in strict controls in terms of who, when and how maintenance is done on the critical electronics and sensitive system. While this does not mean that the PAF will need a LockMart Technician every time it needs to change a bolt. It does mean that systems such as Digital Processing cards or other sensitive electronics within LRUs cannot be fixed by PAF personnel and have to be sent back to the US and a complete unit refitted in its place.
Moreover, there is also strict control on the Spare records and what is stored where. Digital ID tags on all equipment and video surveillance of storage areas(those storing sensitive equipment) within Jacobabad.
Systems such as the SNIPER targeting pod have both physical and digital seals to detect unauthorized tampering.

And finally.. under no circumstances(unless cleared by the US mil attache) are any Chinese personnel to be allowed near the premises where the F-16s are operating from.

 

[Donatello]

At no point has that happened. What you have is nothing more than the stench of yellow journalism going overboard with the oft repeated kill switches and what not. At no point are these weapons restricted in their usage except perhaps through power of words.

The only restrictions however are those based on curtailing plagiarism and stealing of technology by the Chinese or by the PAF for the Chinese. After all, the J-10 program owes a lot to the PAF's willingness to let the Chinese scan their F-16s inside out.
To prevent that from happening again, the US has put in strict controls in terms of who, when and how maintenance is done on the critical electronics and sensitive system. While this does not mean that the PAF will need a LockMart Technician every time it needs to change a bolt. It does mean that systems such as Digital Processing cards or other sensitive electronics within LRUs cannot be fixed by PAF personnel and have to be sent back to the US and a complete unit refitted in its place.
Moreover, there is also strict control on the Spare records and what is stored where. Digital ID tags on all equipment and video surveillance of storage areas(those storing sensitive equipment) within Jacobabad.
Systems such as the SNIPER targeting pod have both physical and digital seals to detect unauthorized tampering.

And finally.. under no circumstances(unless cleared by the US mil attache) are any Chinese personnel to be allowed near the premises where the F-16s are operating from.

Hi,

I am sure the Chinese cannot get hands on actually F-16 BLK52 hardware, but they can get the experience and interface results out of the pilots who fly them. So for example, PAF pilots can tell the Chinese at Chengdu or Shenyang that hey, this is how the F-16 Radar works in such and such situation. Can we have the JF-17 or J-10 radar like that or perhaps negate the weaknesses? So i am sure PAF experience can go into designing the Chinese jets.

Also, it is only a matter of time when the Chinese catch up to the electronics of the western fighters.

 

[muse]

At no point has that happened. The only restrictions however are who, when and how maintenance is done on the critical electronics and sensitive system. While this does not mean that the PAF will need a LockMart Technician every time it needs to change a bolt. It does mean that systems such as Digital Processing cards or other sensitive electronics within LRUs cannot be fixed by PAF personnel and have to be sent back to the US and a complete unit refitted in its place.
Moreover, there is also strict control on the Spare records and what is stored where. Digital ID tags on all equipment and video surveillance of storage areas(those storing sensitive equipment) within Jacobabad.
Systems such as the SNIPER targeting pod have both physical and digital seals to detect unauthorized tampering.

And finally.. under no circumstances(unless cleared by the US mil attache) are any Chinese personnel to be allowed near the premises where the F-16s are operating from.

Thank you for the explanation- as you yourself have made clear Pakistan have very limited control over these systems - As the US already has a record, so to speak, of being a poor or unreliable supplier, why exactly have a segment of the Pakistani officer corp allowed Pakistan's defense to be under the control of the US??

You have said that the US decides WHO, HOW and WHEN - Is it, therefore, unreasonable to conclude that what a particular segment of the officer corp have done is to outsource Pakistan's autonomy of action to a foreign power (WHO, HOW, WHEN)

I completely understand that the segment of the officer corp which is in the good books of the US should find such a conclusion embarrassing, however, don't you think that instead of justifying the outsourcing of Pakistan's defense to a hostile foreign power that we should be rectifying this mistake??


The US is a hostile foreign power, not just towards Pakistan but towards Muslims in general, but even if this assertion is controversial to the segment of the officer corp favorable to the US, clearly, the public perception of the US and the officer corps cozy relationship with it, is having a negative effect on both the officer corp and the relationship with the US, will that segment of the officer corp that is cozy with the US, not realize that it cannot be out of step with the public?? Or will it risk it's very existence for the sake of being cozy with US and her interests over those of Pakistan and her populace?