Air defence to be strengthened

[sohailbutt]

Air defence to be strengthened

ISLAMABAD: The government will strengthen the country’s air defence by providing all necessary resources to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) to enable it to modernise and maintain a state of readiness, Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani said on Saturday. “The government is focusing on improving the PAF’s indigenous capabilities by exploring the possibility of entering into joint ventures with friendly countries,” Gilani said at a briefing during a visit to Air Headquarters in Islamabad, adding the PAF had always proved its strength defending Pakistan’s borders. staff report

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[alibaz]

what all is being done on ground.

 

[IceCold]

Yes indeed we are strengthening PAF but with what, by reducing the number of the F-16s. Actions speak louder then words, in our case its the very opposite. All words with tall claims and no action.

 

[Muradk]

I think we will have enough F-16's to cover our Air Space Plus all four countries Israel , India, Afghanistan, Iran know how fast and effective our CAP is in the 80 the planes used to scramble and we always got them .. Plus with JF-17s and J-10s we will have enough air power and with AWASC now we are quite secure.
Let me expalin how our PAF defense work starting from Kahsmir to Pasni all around our boarders we have a net of radars working 24/7 , it is like a net One radars signal over laps the next radar and them the next and so on. So it will be very hard for an intruder to come in without detection. As long they don't have stealth tec.
If an intruder gets into our air space Army Air Defense will take care off it.
I always made fun of the army guys because a stinger in the hand of a Subadar would aim and say TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN and fire but now they are getting very good at there jobs. By the time these guys do there stuff PAF is already there.

 

[Blackpearl]

I want to ask this sir!
How PAF Air Defence and Army Air Defence are integrated, and co-ordinated with each other. Who exercise the final "GO" option when launching own assets against intruder?

 

[Inception-06]

Yes indeed we are strengthening PAF but with what, by reducing the number of the F-16s. Actions speak louder then words, in our case its the very opposite. All words with tall claims and no action.

1.we have ca 2500 Anti -air -craft -Guns from 35mm- to 37mm to 57mm.

2.Also about 10000 12,7mm Anti air craft Guns for low level action against Aircraft!

3.We have ca. 4000-5000 AnzaI-III Manpads

4.We have ca. 200-300 Stinger!

4. We have ca. 500-1000 RBS ( Manpads)

5. We have ca. 500-1000 Mistral ( Manpads)

6. We have ca. 300 Skygurads Guns !

7. We have 15-25 Crotale Batteries

All this systems, stations, batteries works in the cooperation of a radar and will cooperate with the new Awacs !

 

[IceCold]

1.we have ca 2500 Anti -air -craft -Guns from 35mm- to 37mm to 57mm.

2.Also about 10000 12,7mm Anti air craft Guns for low level action against Aircraft!

3.We have ca. 4000-5000 AnzaI-III Manpads

4.We have ca. 200-300 Stinger!

4. We have ca. 500-1000 RBS ( Manpads)

5. We have ca. 500-1000 Mistral ( Manpads)

6. We have ca. 300 Skygurads Guns !

7. We have 15-25 Crotale Batteries

All this systems, stations, batteries works in the cooperation of a radar and will cooperate with the new Awacs !

These things are good only for low level flying objects such as helicopters and against old jets such as the MIG-21. Things have changed now and we seriously lack a long range modern SAM system.

 

[fatman17]

^^^i would seriously question the quantities mentioned against each air-defence weapons systems.???

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani said on Saturday. “The government is focusing on improving the PAF’s indigenous capabilities by exploring the possibility of entering into joint ventures with friendly countries,”

looks like MarkSien was right, it is very possible PAF will enter in a joint venture with South Africa and their T-Darter.

Denel offered us a partnership in developing a ramjet-powered missile in 1999 and this is after our nuclear tests by the way. insha'Allah, hopefully this means we will jump onto the 5th generation missile bandwagon indigenously.

a joint venture with China and France is highly unlikely, so the idea that Mark had is looking more realistic. we already have leaked info that PAF's H-2 or H-4 are similar to Denel's precision guided glide bomb, the Raptor. which means PAF and Denel cooperation is already there.

 

[x_man]

I want to ask this sir!
How PAF Air Defence and Army Air Defence are integrated, and co-ordinated with each other. Who exercise the final "GO" option when launching own assets against intruder?

Besides having 3 regional commands, PAF has a separate Air Defence command. (ADC). In any conflict or shall i say that before actual hostilities break out , majority of the Army’s AD assets will be deployed at important vulnerable points / areas ( VP / VA ).....Its is the job of Air Def Command to carry out all the necessary coordination as far as the integration and deployment of all assets are concerned ....Procedures are also there to avoid own kill ( as it happened in 1965 where trigger happy Havaldars started to shoot on own jets ) and therefore a very thorough aircraft recognition courses are run for the Army AD guys.....

Lets say that when crossing international border to attack across , there are specific in-gates and out-gates ( corridors) that will be followed ( except aircrafts in emergencies) , there are also special lanes once aircraft are takingoff and landing back to the base.....all these procedures are made to minimise the chance to have own aircraft being shot at......because any aircraft who is not following these gates / corridors will be considered a hostile and is liable to be shot at.......Indians too have the similar procedure at their end.......integrity of these corridor is very closely monitored and guarded.......

Final GO to shoot an aircraft will remain with the Air forces Air Def Command ( almost) and so as the scramble of the fighter jets....except few circumstances, airforce will have an operational control over most of the assets....Despite every effort and all measures, in the fog of war, things can go wrong at any time.......Mr Murphy is always playing his part and looking for a chance....so fingers crossed..

 

[Blackpearl]

How Armymen may distinguish between own F-7 and IAF Mig-21 and also between own and Indian MI-17 helos.

 

[blain2]

How Armymen may distinguish between own F-7 and IAF Mig-21 and also between own and Indian MI-17 helos.

To be very honest with you, fratricide is a fact of war. After the 1965 war, ACM Nur Khan wrote that PAF aircraft getting shot down by the PA is a risk that has to be taken. While the Army ADC can be trained on recognition, unfortunately some accidents are bound to happen just because of reasons you have stated above as well as others. Maybe some sort of integrated IFF system would be the solution if the Army is tied into it.

 

[Inception-06]

These things are good only for low level flying objects such as helicopters and against old jets such as the MIG-21. Things have changed now and we seriously lack a long range modern SAM system.

are you sure man ? what you think how have win the Afghanis or the Vietnamese their war ?

Our equipment can not give 100% protection but 60% and that is enough to defence our Air from Iaf !

The main point is how you use your equipment ! Fire with radar is another thing than fire without eyes like the Iraqis in Gulf war !

 

[Muradk]

To be very honest with you, fratricide is a fact of war. After the 1965 war, ACM Nur Khan wrote that PAF aircraft getting shot down by the PA is a risk that has to be taken. While the Army ADC can be trained on recognition, unfortunately some accidents are bound to happen just because of reasons you have stated above as well as others. Maybe some sort of integrated IFF system would be the solution if the Army is tied into it.

Blain: you remeber I wrote a complete thread that on the 4th of dec when we came back from mission 3F-86s , the army started firing at us I had 2 beautiful whole in my right wing thank to PAK Army we all landed in kamra.

 

[blain2]

Blain: you remeber I wrote a complete thread that on the 4th of dec when we came back from mission 3F-86s , the army started firing at us I had 2 beautiful whole in my right wing thank to PAK Army we all landed in kamra.

Yes I definitely remember your write up sir. Maj Gen Shaukat Reza actually devoted almost a chapter to this issue in his book "Pakistan Army - War 1965".