Ahmadis in Pakistan

[mjnaushad]

1) who set these requirements?? If you say that scriptures did then there are many instances that scriptures provoke violence and justify killings. (no offence)

2) isnt just having faith in Allah almighty only qualifies for being a muslim?? Why the technicalities for?? Isnt religion a personal thing. A relation between self and god??

These technicalities kills the spirituality off the religion. Its like saying do these these these and only then you can consider yourself muslim. Like have 80% or above marks in exam and then you can apply for engineering.. Ahh these technicalities..

Dont speak if you dont knwo anything about islam. Search a little then come and rant.

The 6 Kalimas

 

[blain2]

1) who set these requirements?? If you say that scriptures did then there are many instances that scriptures provoke violence and justify killings. (no offence)

2) isnt just having faith in Allah almighty only qualifies for being a muslim?? Why the technicalities for?? Isnt religion a personal thing. A relation between self and god??

These technicalities kills the spirituality off the religion. Its like saying do these these these and only then you can consider yourself muslim. Like have 80% or above marks in exam and then you can apply for engineering.. Ahh these technicalities..

Spirituality is one aspect, however Islam to us is a complete system by which one lives their life. It deals with a lot of very minute, tactical issues as well as the ones in the higher spiritual realm.

As Muslims, we believe the teachings of prophet Jesus were incomplete and with his second coming, he too will bring about a lot of the very detailed, nuanced teachings to his adherents, which is in stark contrast to the higher spiritual level message of "love thy neighbour".

In line with this, for #2, Having faith in Allah and his last prophet as the seal of the prophets is the basic requirement of being a Muslim. On this aspect, there is no room for disagreement. I understand it can come across as very rigid, but this is the case.

 

[rohailmalhi]

Actually after meeting you i started believing charles Darwin's theory....

 

[Comet]

My Personal view is that they should not be allowed to call themselves Muslims neither their places of worships should be Called mosques as this creates hatred and is not fair for Muslims too.

They should be entitled to all services and must be provided security of all kinds and there should be laws to defend their freedom and liberty .

I completely agree with this.

 

[Kompromat]

No offence but drawing pictures of people is haram in Islam. Even this is technicality. A rigidity by all means.

My final POV is that if Ahmadis believe that the almighty is Allah then they are muslims. No technicalities involved.

Scriptures say women should wear burqa. If you violate do become less of a muslim?? Arent the modern women muslims then?? Why so much of partiality for Ahmadis for having their own view in some technical aspects of scriptures??

Because the Scripture itself says that there is NO PROPHET after the Prophet Muhammad SAW.

Ahmadis have their own Mirza thing which is an absolute violation of Islamic belief .

That is WHY They are non Muslims.

As far as the rest of the practices are concerned its one's personal choice and they would get what they did but they cannot be tagged as Non Muslims.

There is a difference between ill practicing and NON Muslims.

 

[Hyde]

sure

its called Blog,

Blogs are not sources. I can create another blog saying Quad-e-Azam rejected this statement

Btw i ain't arguing. Will search for a credible source myself

 

[mjnaushad]

No offence but drawing pictures of people is haram in Islam. Even this is technicality. A rigidity by all means.

My final POV is that if Ahmadis believe that the almighty is Allah then they are muslims. No technicalities involved.

Scriptures say women should wear burqa. If you violate do become less of a muslim?? Arent the modern women muslims then?? Why so much of partiality for Ahmadis for having their own view in some technical aspects of scriptures??

Technical rigidity must not blind the spiriruality involved in religion.

Alrite....Thats enough....>Dont come with your "General Knowledge" About islam. Because that is provoking me to start my "General Knowledge" on Hinduism.

 

[Hyde]

we keep diverting the topic of this thread. Agnostic Muslim clearly mentioned this thread is not about whether Ahmedis are Kafir or Muslim. This thread is about the discrimination and problems Ahmedis are suffering from Pakistan.

 

[Xeric]

You must be in complete agreement with that stuff like all jews must be killed and evry hiding stone will talk and say here is jew hiding and kill him... I am sorry if it hurts anyone here but there are very discrimatory stuffs in the scriptures and are followed in literal terms.

There is no flexibility just rigidity and rigidity.

i have quite a few friends from Nepal (by virtue of my profession) but guess what, they werent any bigots.

 

[mjnaushad]

we keep diverting the topic of this thread. Agnostic Muslim clearly mentioned this thread is not about whether Ahmedis are Kafir or Muslim. This thread is about the discrimination and problems Ahmedis are suffering from Pakistan.

We are not DIVERTING.....sulemani keeda is...

I request ban for sulemani keeda for off topics and attempt to derail the thread.

 

[blain2]

No offence but drawing pictures of people is haram in Islam. Even this is technicality. A rigidity by all means.

My final POV is that if Ahmadis believe that the almighty is Allah then they are muslims. No technicalities involved.

Scriptures say women should wear burqa. If you violate do become less of a muslim?? Arent the modern women muslims then?? Why so much of partiality for Ahmadis for having their own view in some technical aspects of scriptures??

Technical rigidity must not blind the spiriruality involved in religion.

There are certain thing by disagreeing with them you are, technically speaking, out of the realm of Islam. Not agreeing with the divinity of God and not agreeing with the seal of Prophet-hood are such.

Not wearing Burqa (women in my family do not) does not put one out of the realm of Islam. Some consider it a blame-worthy and sinful thing, but it does not put one outside of Islam.

I think these are some of the detailed, nuanced issues that an observer of Islam needs to understand. I am, by no means, an expert, however these basics were grounded into us from basic classes in schools all around Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

we keep diverting the topic of this thread. Agnostic Muslim clearly mentioned this thread is not about whether Ahmedis are Kafir or Muslim. This thread is about the discrimination and problems Ahmedis are suffering from Pakistan.

We are Discussing why Exactly they are suffering you gotta know the reason dont you ?

If they will keep spreading their lies more Discrimination will follow unfortunately but i should say its not exactly discrimination its more like tit for tat they discriminate against our religion we do against theirs.

If you tell me that you have only one father and i keep saying no you have two , i should be expecting to get my face broken shouldn't i ?

 

[Comet]

we keep diverting the topic of this thread. Agnostic Muslim clearly mentioned this thread is not about whether Ahmedis are Kafir or Muslim. This thread is about the discrimination and problems Ahmedis are suffering from Pakistan.

Precisely. And I have asking for the list of discriminations against Ahmadis.

I need to know what is it that we do which entitle us so much ridicule in front of whole world. What is it that we do because of hamien dunya mien itna "gnada nanga" kia jata hai.

 

[Kompromat]

I want a clear debate with Qadiyanis on the forum right here on this issue.
They do not reveal themselves and dont have guts to say that they are qadiyanis even on the internet.

I think there has to be a discussion we must see what they have got to say .

 

[blain2]

we keep diverting the topic of this thread. Agnostic Muslim clearly mentioned this thread is not about whether Ahmedis are Kafir or Muslim. This thread is about the discrimination and problems Ahmedis are suffering from Pakistan.

You are right. Unfortunately to understand why these issues crop up for the poor Ahmedis, inevitably you have to understand what the primary punga/gripe is.

Otherwise we will say, this and this should not happen. But in reality it will continue to happen because there will be many who will realize the crux of the issue is unresolved.

I will stop here on my rants because I think I am actually undermining AM's efforts to keep the thread off the theological issues.