Ahmadis community is facing dire threat

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

killing cannot be justified whatsoever

Why is Aamir Liaquat and the religious leadership holding rallies and cheering the murder of Taseer not in jail then?

you just need to read their holy books... it will help you... how kafir you probably are

Given my moniker, the Ahamdis would not be the only ones calling me "kafir'.

Bhutto assigned this task to Benazir Bhutto, she was at Embassy in Moscow when she wrote in a letter with case study on Ahmadi faith, which stated something like this "by deep and careful study of their faith, I have come to conclude that either they are Muslims or We are Muslims, We both cannot be Muslims."

And who gave Bhutto the right to pass judgement on the faith of millions of people? That is for Allah to decide on the 'Day of Judgement'.

 

[T-Faz]

And who gave Bhutto the right to pass judgement on the faith of millions of people? That is for Allah to decide on the 'Day of Judgement'.

Nothing of that sort, what leader wrote, happened.

Bhutto even clarified this matter to Dr Abdus Salam who was then the Chief Scientific Advisor and head of Pakistan's nuclear program.

I asked him why he had resigned after the 1974 decision. He told me that it was the same question Bhutto had asked him. “Salam, what is this? Why have you resigned as chief scientific adviser?” Salam told him that after the national assembly verdict declaring his entire community of Ahmadi Muslims non-Muslim, he could not possibly continue. “But Salam that is all politics,” Bhutto told him, then added, “Give me time; I will change it. Believe me.” Salam said to Bhutto, “All right Zulfi, I believe you, but write down what you have told me on a plain piece of paper and it will remain between the two of us, forever and always.” Bhutto’s reply was classic Bhutto, “Salam, I can’t do that; I am a politician.”

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Bhutto wilted under pressure from the religious right and he gave in. But he had stated behind closed doors that he intended to reverse this verdict passed in the Assembly.

 

[S.M.R]

They are facing hard times in punjab. It seems that Punjab govt. is deliberately allowing the anti-qadiyani forces. I have personally seen some banners in lahore, clearly mentioning that 'they are kafirs and blah blah'. Govt. has closed its eyes for whatever happening to them.

 

[Thor]

Well if they do then that would be horrible, as would it if Muslims referred to Jews as 'Swine' or associated any derogatory terms with Hindus. But my point is that I have yet to see a rally, such as those by the Khatme-Nabuwat movement and others, that essentially promote and justify violence against an entire community because of their beliefs. There is no Ahmadi issuing statements of hate like Aamir Liaquat is on TV, is there?

Whether Islam says one thing or not...it does not take away the Ahmadi stance of referring to others in a similar fashion.........that was just one part of their views, others would cause outrage if known in the West fully......

If people wish to take out rallies to shout slogans about this cult, then they too have EVERY right to do so, unless your trying to say that these rights are given only to the elite few like yourselves who agree with your POV.....

Ahmadis dont issue their statements or any controvercial statement as they do not wish to inflame anger towards them and for that, one must just dig into their sources to know their scriptures of venom they actually hold.......

How old is that history? Did they not in fact support the demand for Pakistan while the Deobandis opposed it? Did they not provide Pakistan with magnificent civil servants of the stature of Z Jamali, and scientists such as Salam?

Are we talking about the same Z Jamali who refused the pray the funeral of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan because he, in the eyes of Ahmaids is a Kaffir.........are we talking about the same Chief justice here.....

There are Ahmadis who have done good for Pakistan and as such they should be comended, however blind support is not wise and very childish.......

At what point in history have the Ahmadis controlled the government in Pakistan and passed laws forbidding non-Ahmadis from calling themselves what they will and discriminating against them?

Pakistan is an Islamic State by law and as such, the leader of Ahmadis was requested and invited to the House of Parliament to hear his point of view, and most members in that house where very Liberal, moderate politicians....it is only when he called all Muslims of Pakistan Kaffirs, that is when this statute was passed within the Constitution....if that is the way of Islam and Pakistan, then so be it, it is the way of life there and should also be respected, unless you think the Western way of life is absolutely correct.............

Please do provide some credible sources of evidence for these claims of yours.


Again, credible sources and evidence to support your claims please - I will admit that I never heard of these claims before today.

Deendar Anjuman is a terrorist organisation banned in India and Pakistan........I do not have any online website to bring out due to their not being available in India Pakistan during this time........Deendar Anjuman leader Syed Deendar had taken bait with the Ahmadi leader and followed Ahmadiyya for a while and allegedly left when not given ay position within the leadership.....nonetheless, no Ahmadi will accept ownership of such news, despite it being readily available of the deendar webpage of his bait to Ahmaddiya before leaving.........however he had joined the Lahore Group and split further from them later on in time.........this group has been involved in terrorism in India and Pakistan for a long time in history.......

 

[S.M.R]

Actually they are facing two way attacks, one from authorities for 'blasphemy' law, and other from extremist, people like Mumtaz Qadri are in Pakistan like pathar uthao to 100 niklain ge. They do not have any 'kirdar' but they try to find shortcut to Heaven.

 

[Awesome]

Late night he ran a one hour ‘Twitter special’ that contained such choice updates as:

AamirLiaquat I continue to hate Qadiyanis no matter how much the supporters will burn in fire of jealousy

AamirLiaquat Also it is the demand of our faith to condemn the false prophet like Mirza Ghulam Qadyani, the greatest cursed person of the entire universe

Feeling his program was perhaps veering too far, our esteemed Doctor then peddled back a step:

AamirLiaquat I am not talking about the killings of Qadiyanis, but I am against of their sham ideologies

AamirLiaquat I completely and throughly believe that killing of any human being is the killing of the whole humanity

Having established his good nature and intentions, Dr Liaquat carried on:

AamirLiaquat O Qadiyanis! Do not come up with the false allegations, the whole world knows that you have hatred and grudges against me

At this point the good Doctor took a call from journalist and documentary filmmaker Beena Sarwar who remarked:

beenasarwar @AamirLiaquat I’m not arguing with your belief. Only asking whether this belief can only be propagated by hating others.

The good Doctor replied, once again, with surprising brevity:

AamirLiaquat @beenasarwar Beena please put yourself out from this quarrel, it is a serious matter of belief

AamirLiaquat @beenasarwar I request you again please understand the Khatm-e-Naboowat, it is not an issue of hate and love

Not your typical call-in, but hey its Twitter – time and attention spans are short! On with the show. Columnist and activist Marvi Sirmed weighed in:

marvisirmed @Spugmay Chill yourself and keep your lectures to yourself. We’ll deal with this murderer ourselves @AamirLiaquat @sanakazmi

To which our (shocked) good Doctor replies:

AamirLiaquat Now they are threatend me, they have nothing to prove

AamirLiaquat She called me murderer…Sirf lafzoun ey hi mar gaye..hai allah

With this, and a few other choice retweets that cannot be pasted here, the late-night show came to an end with a final shout out by Dr Liaquat:

AamirLiaquat Ok Bye Bye, O Qadiyanis! keep on burning

Twitter channel off.

Time to go to sleep in our land of the pure, Pakistan…

The Morning Show

Dr Liaquat, true to morning show form begins by taking a call from Beena Sarwar once again. This time we see less aggression, smiles, platitudes and ye ol’ morning show calm:

beenasarwar @AamirLiaquat is an old colleague from Geo. I’m sure he doesn’t mean harm, will crub hate speech.

AamirLiaquat @beenasarwar You are right beena and you know me very well

The chit chat takes a pleasant turn, with Ms Sarwar finding room for sneaking in a request:

@beenasarwar @AamirLiaquat Look fwd to you clearing misconception, & clearly state violence, murder of anyone for their faith incl Ahmedis is WRONG. Thks

The good Doctor takes up the good will and embellishes:

AamirLiaquat @beenasarwar Un murders key peechey bhi aik conspiracy thi, kash kabhi koi mujh sey to poochta ya woh programme hi unbiast ho kar dekhta

AamirLiaquat @beenasarwar Yeah Beena these are my views too…pata nahin Rasool sey meri muhabbat ko provoking of violence kiyoun samajh lia jaatA hai

So there we have it folks! The wonders of the media revealed! Something for everybody! Got a little masala in for the late night folks, and got your platitudes in for the morning segment too!

In media/marketing speak I believe this is called: win-win.

Dr Aamir Liaquat

It's like Nahi nahi, bass Ahmadis hate me. Yaar kakay kuch nahi kehtay tujhe, nahi nahi Ahmadi ayenge, mujhe kha jayenge...

Nifs Pakistan ka yehi ahmakana haal hai.

 

[Thor]

Is there a problem with this thread as I cannot access Page 2 at all

 

[S.M.R]

@ thor, which terrorism you are talking about? it has never been reported in Pakistan except for Ummat (Jamati News Network).

 

[T-Faz]

Are we talking about the same Z Jamali who refused the pray the funeral of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan because he, in the eyes of Ahmaids is a Kaffir.........are we talking about the same Chief justice here.....

There were two funerals held for the Quaid.

A public one led by a Deobandi Maulana and a private one for family and close friends of the Quaid which was conducted according to Khoja Shia rituals.

Zafarullah prayed in the private funeral and not in the public one because the Maulana who led those prayers called Zafarullah a kafir.

 

[Leader]

Why is Aamir Liaquat and the religious leadership holding rallies and cheering the murder of Taseer not in jail then?

weak writ of the state... I stated that in my first post...

Given my moniker, the Ahamdis would not be the only ones calling me "kafir'.

well, give a try to debate, by their definition given to them by Mirza Gulam Ahmad Pervaiz Qadiyani if you dont believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz Qadiyani as the Apostle of Allah, you are a Kafir.

now if you know, historically, when this sect came into being... it divided families... even today my father's uncle's blah blah...who is my cousin in some way, living in our village, is a Qadiyani... what happens is when you try to convince the other... and like I said its more than enough to spark a muslim that Prophet Muhammad was not the final prophet, and that if you dont believe in Mirza Gulam Ahmad pervaiz qadiyani to be the apostle you are a kafir... Bang !!

still the reasons vary how things flame up... put yourself like a layman in a situation where there is NO chance of agreement... ??

And who gave Bhutto the right to pass judgement on the faith of millions of people? That is for Allah to decide on the 'Day of Judgement'.

It wasnot bhutto who decided it, the debate took place in NA, their representative had the chance to plea his case,

though I think it should have been that they should have been declared a sect who doesnot believe in finality of Prophethood on Prophet Muhammad. it would have been less problematic....

 

[scrumpy]

What is the condition of the Ahmedi community in India? I read recently about some rumblings from a minority of mainstream muslims against a Ahmedi Convention in India sometime back but haven't heard much about it later.

Does any one here know what the situation with this community in India is?

 

[Leader]

Nothing of that sort, what leader wrote, happened.

Bhutto even clarified this matter to Dr Abdus Salam who was then the Chief Scientific Advisor and head of Pakistan's nuclear program.



Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Bhutto wilted under pressure from the religious right and he gave in. But he had stated behind closed doors that he intended to reverse this verdict passed in the Assembly.

its source can either be bhutto, Salam or ISI

 

[T-Faz]

well, give a try to debate, by their definition given to them by Mirza Gulam Ahmad Pervaiz Qadiyani if you dont believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz Qadiyani as the Apostle of Allah, you are a Kafir.

Before I go, I need to just counter one more of your fallacious arguments which you have stated based on conjecture.

An entire investigation was conducted into this matter by the Pakistan government in 1953 and a report was produced for the assembly.

All sects were asked to define a Muslim and all leading Ulema's gave their definition.

This was the Ahmadi answer:

The definition by the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiya, Rabwah, in its written statement, is that a Muslim is a person who belongs to the ummat of the Holy Prophet and professes belief in kalima-i-tayyaba.

Columbia University - Munir Report - Pakistan Government

This was Maududi's answer:

Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, Amir, Jama'at-i-Islami --

"Q.-Please define a Muslim.
A.-- A person is a Muslim if he believes (1) in tauheed, (2) in all the prophets (ambiya), (3) all the books revealed by God, (4) in mala'ika (angels), and (5) yaum-ul-akhira (the Day of Judgment).

You can read all of them in the document.

So once again you are wrong, as usual but that is common amongst your type.

Here is what Justice Munir and Kayani wrote about this matter:

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

its source can either be bhutto, Salam or ISI

Its written by Khalid Hassan, one of the best, if not the best and high profile journalist produced by this country.

Khalid Hasan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But like I mentioned once before, man of your intelligence is a dangerous thing.

 

[Leader]

There were two funerals held for the Quaid.

A public one led by a Deobandi Maulana and a private one for family and close friends of the Quaid which was conducted according to Khoja Shia rituals.

Zafarullah prayed in the private funeral and not in the public one because the Maulana who led those prayers called Zafarullah a kafir.

I surely dont know about the private funeral whether there was any or not, maybe Deobandi do this propaganda, however if anyone knows Shabbir Ahmad Usmani he was indeed pluralist and least controversial,

and the reason why Zafar ullah didnot say the funeral was not that Usmani would have stopped him, but because thankless Zafar ullah was a Qadiyani and by his views Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a kafir.

 

[Leader]

Before I go, I need to just counter one more of your fallacious arguments which you have stated based on conjecture.

An entire investigation was conducted into this matter by the Pakistan government in 1953 and a report was produced for the assembly.

All sects were asked to define a Muslim and all leading Ulema's gave their definition.

This was the Ahmadi answer:



Columbia University - Munir Report - Pakistan Government

This was Maududi's answer:



You can read all of them in the document.

So once again you are wrong, as usual but that is common amongst your type.

Here is what Justice Munir and Kayani wrote about this matter:



---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------



Its written by Khalid Hassan, one of the best, if not the best and high profile journalist produced by this country.

Khalid Hasan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But like I mentioned once before, man of your intelligence is a dangerous thing.

you are making it too simple, get a taste of practical life, get hold of some "holy books of Qadaiyani" and read it for yourself whats the status if you dont believe him to be apostle,

as far as definition of muslim is concern by Ijmah it would be accepted by followers of Shafi school of thought.

yes khalid hussain one of the best ISI men...