After Vote, Pakistan’s Strongest Ally Should Be India

[Dubious]

@Talon

@arp2041 But we are trying to achieve Peace which can be beneficial for our entire region.

I know it is from a neutral POV....my post was in response to someone's post not in response to OP....

2ndly, Peace....You do not achieve peace by putting knife behind one's back nor do you do it by PUTTING FORWARD DEMANDS....

Peace is attained through MUTUAL compromise not through GANGSTER STYLE of Demanding and threatening!

 

[Vinod2070]

These corrupt baboos are in cahoots with corrupt politicians.

they are the biggest hurdle in the trade.

However lately,

-- Some of this Baboo power has been snatched away by the pragmatic businessmen on both sides of the border.


Few recent examples that many of you do not know come from the business tycoons from India and Pakistan forcing these baboos to do away with transit across Wagah gate.

It used be for petty stuff only.

the rest of the Indian products would go to Mumbai, then to Karachi and then back up to Northern Pakistan.


That stupid rule is no longer there perhaps after decades.


Boundary change is and f'd up idea that almost entire elite of Pakistan has thrown in the Arabian sea long time ago.

Unfortunately Indian baboos and TV honchos and the generals did not realize that change.

And

that's why so many Indians (who are ignorant of ground realities in Pakistan) keep on living in the past.



peace

No worries.

When Indian people see the change in the ground realities, they will come around. I am quite hopeful.

Peace.

 

[Dubious]

You know I admire your posts.

On this one, I'd do a slightly update.


Very very very few Muslims left India on their own. And the ones who left on their own accord did not do so around 1947. They came in later in 1948-through-1950 when the madness and bloodshed of partition was over.



Majority of East Punjabis did not want to leave their ancestral lands. they were forced out. Ethnically cleansed.
Majority of Hyderabadi Muslims were the privileged class, they were forced out.

In 1947, Only a small number of government baboos mainly from Delhi (being the capital) and few high level military/police officers left at their own to joining the government of Pakistan.


So let's keep the history in our mind when talking about the dark days of 1947.


peace.

@FaujHistorian Thank you for your history lesson, I am talking about those who left and chose to leave...Whatever caused them to leave....the truth is they left....

Had they wanted to be part of India, they could have migrated to any other part of INDIA and not just moved into Pakistan....Those who moved and stayed are the ones I am talking about...

They moved they stayed and now are Pakistanis....And in no way do they want to go to India...had they, they prob can coz India claims it accepts

 

[FaujHistorian]

[MENTION=141155]......
But we are trying to achieve Peace which can be beneficial for our entire region.

Right on. My man. Right on.

[MENTION=141155].... we are at better position Globally not Pak (economically, demographically, politically, militarily, diplomatically, etc.)...

Please quit living in a made up bubble.

Have a heart to heart talk with anyone high up in DC or London.

They will laugh at Indian silliness with Pakistan (just like they laugh at Pakistani silliness with India).


Off course a gora businessman would say at your face whatever you want to hear,
as long
as they have their hands in the Indian purse and sell you expensive stuff.


So I urge you to be realistic.


peace

 

[Vinod2070]

@Bang Galore Had we wanted to be ruled under India, MOST of us WOULDNT have left it for PAKISTAN in the 1st place!

WE left and moved to this land....WHY ON EARTH would we want to go back?

Just a small nitpick. Many of you moved on from this land as well pretty quick!

And making similar complaints in your new land as well?

 

[Dubious]

Just a small nitpick. Many of you moved on from this land as well pretty quick!

And making similar complaints in your new land as well?

@Vinod2070 I do not talk about those I am not a part of! You keep whoever wanted to be your part (humans) but no negotiation in terms of my land!

 

[FaujHistorian]

[MENTION=38719].....
Had they wanted to be part of India, they could have migrated to any other part of INDIA and not just moved into Pakistan.....

They had no choice. They were forced out of their ancestral lands, with a push to Pakistan. No other option or choice was available.

We must not equate "Ethnic cleansing" and "holocaust" with choice.

[MENTION=38719]..........
They moved they stayed and now are Pakistanis....And in no way do they want to go to India...had they, they prob can coz India claims it accepts

This is not as straight forward.

Modern day Punjabis, sindhis, Balochis, and Pakhtoons have ALWAYS been the sons of soil. For them "going back to India" is an alien notion.

Modern day Urdus (kids of Biharis, UPite forefathers) are sons of soil too. However many of us still call ourselves as "Mohajirs". And thus still claim to have a link to India.

peace

 

[Vinod2070]

@FaujHistorian Thank you for your history lesson, I am talking about those who left and chose to leave...Whatever caused them to leave....the truth is they left....

Had they wanted to be part of India, they could have migrated to any other part of INDIA and not just moved into Pakistan....Those who moved and stayed are the ones I am talking about...

They moved they stayed and now are Pakistanis....And in no way do they want to go to India...had they, they prob can coz India claims it accepts

These are assumptions.

And wrong ones. Let's just leave it at that.

@Vinod2070 I do not talk about those I am not a part of! You keep whoever wanted to be your part (humans) but no negotiation in terms of my land!

Apparently, you didn't get my post.

Anyway leave it. It was not meant very seriously.

 

[RangerPK]

Jag Punjabi jag teri pug nu lag gaya dagh.
Now Punjabi jag gaya, ab pug nu dagh nahi lagaya seeeeee.
Whole army and beruacracy supported PMLN and MQM in rigging.

Musharraf signed NRO? So PPP and PML-N could take turns? Now I see videos of elections being rigged by PML-N folks...while rangers were outside the polling stations doing nothing? What is going on ?

Considering all this, It almost seems like a maricle. The PTI factor emerged out of nothing as a major player and took seats in KPK.

 

[Vinod2070]

They had no choice. They were forced out of their ancestral lands, with a push to Pakistan. No other option or choice was available.

We must not equate "Ethnic cleansing" and "holocaust" with choice.

Quite tragic. Let's hope it never recurs in our fair land.

This is not as straight forward.

Modern day Punjabis, sindhis, Balochis, and Pakhtoons have ALWAYS been the sons of soil. For them "going back to India" is an alien notion.

Modern day Urdus (kids of Biharis, UPite forefathers) are sons of soil too. However many of us still call ourselves as "Mohajirs". And thus still claim to have a link to India.

peace

While understandable, it is not sustainable.

Indians refugees who came from Pakistan don't call themselves refugees or Mohajirs. They have fully integrated.

Pakistani mohajirs need to do the same. The decision was unfortunately an irrevocable one.

Though apparently some had different notions about the duration of their being away from India, let's avoid going there.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......

When Indian people see the change in the ground realities, they will come around. I am quite hopeful.

Peace.

Not sure what you mean by "Indian people". Majority of them are so dirt poor that they don't time to do silly exchanges with Pakistan.

People who hold grudge against Pakistan are very very tiny minority that happens to be educated elite.

this elite looks at Pakistan in a racist pov,

Why I say it.

For this group of Indian elite, policy makers, baboos etc. every Pakistani is black-faced-Qazab.

Which is like

Those American white racists who view every brown person as Arab.

This racism and stereotyping resulted in horrible killing of Indians in America (and not Arabs in America).

Same racist and stereotyping means Indians suffering $stupid slurs.


And yet

The same Indians treat majority Pakistanis as if they all are hafiz-b@stard-Saeed, and black-faced-Qazab.


As long as this racism and stereotyping exists in Indian baboos, and some of the elite, we'll not see peace.


Even when we get ample opportunities to offer peace and chai on individual basis.


so there you go

Peace

 

[Dubious]

They had no choice. They were forced out of their ancestral lands, with a push to Pakistan. No other option or choice was available.

We must not equate "Ethnic cleansing" and "holocaust" with choice.



This is not as straight forward.

Modern day Punjabis, sindhis, Balochis, and Pakhtoons have ALWAYS been the sons of soil. For them "going back to India" is an alien notion.

Modern day Urdus (kids of Biharis, UPite forefathers) are sons of soil too. However many of us still call ourselves as "Mohajirs". And thus still claim to have a link to India.

peace

@FaujHistorian Let me educate you a little here! My family is from the Punjab side of India...or was 3-4 generations ago...we moved ...90% of our whole village moved....Alhamdulillah my whole family tree of 3-4 generations ago moved (great grandparents, their siblings and cousins) all moved, left their land and whatnot...started from scratch and never thought us the word Mohajirs as we are not people who moved to be called different BUT WE ARE people who moved to be PART of the difference!

Well, as for the MOHAJIRS they can go back anyday they want...But the land stays with Pakistan as it is Pakistan's not the Mohajirs....they cant carry it with them! So if India wants "peace" or whatnot, they should never talk about land!

 

[Vinod2070]

@Talon did you even click on the link of the OP??

It's from a neutral POV.

India is not dying to have a friendship with Pak, we are at better position Globally not Pak (economically, demographically, politically, militarily, diplomatically, etc.).

But we are trying to achieve Peace which can be beneficial for our entire region.

See, when we talk peace, being "at better position Globally" is not the point.

We will do it because it is in our interests as well. Because it will be win win.

I know it is from a neutral POV....my post was in response to someone's post not in response to OP....

2ndly, Peace....You do not achieve peace by putting knife behind one's back nor do you do it by PUTTING FORWARD DEMANDS....

Peace is attained through MUTUAL compromise not through GANGSTER STYLE of Demanding and threatening!

You mean "Bagal me chhuri, muh me Ram Ram"?

Well, old habits die hard.

 

[Dubious]

These are assumptions.

And wrong ones. Let's just leave it at that.

@Vinod2070 I replied to the following comment of yours:

Just a small nitpick. Many of you moved on from this land as well pretty quick!

And making similar complaints in your new land as well?

Apparently, you didn't get my post.

Anyway leave it. It was not meant very seriously.

Write clearly if ye be true...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Quite tragic. Let's hope it [ethnic cleansing] never recurs in our fair land.

This is not as straight forward.



.

Absolutely my man. An emphatic yes!

....
While understandable, it is not sustainable.

Indians refugees who came from Pakistan don't call themselves refugees or Mohajirs. They have fully integrated.

Pakistani mohajirs need to do the same. The decision was unfortunately an irrevocable one.

Though apparently some had different notions about the duration of their being away from India, let's avoid going there.

"Mohajarism" is only alive in us the urdu-speaking group.


Every other refugee group has integrated.


peace