After Vote, Pakistan’s Strongest Ally Should Be India

[FaujHistorian]

.....The Pakistani army has been hoodwinking its people [on Siachin issue]....

..... Your [Pakistani] position [on Siachin issue] simply does not hold.

BG bro!

This is precisely the attitude which puzzles a lot of us, who truly want to have close relations with India.

-- Anyone with basic access to Pakistani military officers know exactly where we are and where Indians are.
-- so no hoodwinking at all.


-- The real hoodwinking is done by sarkari baboos on both side who tell you that Siachin is the best thing that ever happened since the sliced bread.

-- The real hoodwinking is done by sarkari baboos on both side who tell us that Siachin is the best thing that ever happened since the sliced bread.

We all need to be very careful to pick and choose our battles, and if possible, go to the table and dialogue first.


there is no danger whatsoever that could come to India from Siachin.

It is fing 200 miles (roughly) piece of jagged ice, only good for mountaineering.


Such mountaineering may bring in 1 million or so dollars a year in licensing.

that's all.


Why can't we agree on a joint licensing where both of us split the income 50/50, 60/40 (India-Pak), 70/30 (India Pak), and have some cordial relations.


Why a good person like you with at least an MS degree in egineering would come to a Pakistani forum and dance around naked on an issue that has no benefit whatsoever for an Indian sitting in Bangaluru.



We also see that when Chinese do an incursion, Indian government makes sure to do the dialogue.

But with Pakistan, Indian government starts with military attack first.

You know that shair

-- Ghairon say Piyar
-- Upno say dushmani
-- Ya Khuda Yeh majra kiya hay.



Just think bro, just think.


there are many industrialists who are working hard to bring positive change for Indian imports to Pakistan.

Such militant and rather $tupid attitude simply hurts our cause and people on both sides of the border.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think good relations are possible between India and Pakistan.

Not on the basis of some stupid "commonalities" or "shared past" but on the basis of common interests.

It should be a future looking relationship and not a past looking one.

 

[indushek]

Oh shut up already going on and on about same thing every three months!!!! let the baboos do something. All said and done they hold the power to do and they aren't here. Monotonous discussions.

 

[Vinod2070]

Oh shut up already going on and on about same thing every three months!!!! let the baboos do something. All said and done they hold the power to do and they aren't here. Monotonous discussions.

I agree that there should be more action than words.

However, one has to remain optimistic.

We don't want to remain struck in this small time so called "rivalry" with Pakistan. We are looking to find our place on the wider world.

And Pakistan has hopefully seen the price it has paid for the mindless enmity.

The past should be used to draw lessons and to move on and find new solutions.

 

[mikkix]

Jag Punjabi jag teri pug nu lag gaya dagh.
Now Punjabi jag gaya, ab pug nu dagh nahi lagaya seeeeee.
Whole army and beruacracy supported PMLN and MQM in rigging.

 

[Bang Galore]

-- Anyone with basic access to Pakistani military officers know exactly where we are and where Indians are.
-- so no hoodwinking at all.

That wasn't for you at all. Just a bit of fun with the poster involved.

Why can't we agree on a joint licensing where both of us split the income 50/50, 60/40 (India-Pak), 70/30 (India Pak), and have some cordial relations.

I agree. Add an equal bit of territory from your side & we will do exactly what you say. I see no logic in only agreeing to put territory controlled by India up for some sort of joint sharing.

-- Ghairon say Piyar
-- Upno say dushmani
-- Ya Khuda Yeh majra kiya hay.

Couldn't agree more.

Just think bro, just think.

Thinking, thinking. Just that there is one FaujHistorian for 20 others that think differently.

there are many industrialists who are working hard to bring positive change for Indian imports to Pakistan.

More power to them......

Such militant and rather $tupid attitude simply hurts our cause and people on both sides of the border.

I agree. Still haven't figured out what it is that Pakistan realistically wants and what is on it's side of the bargaining table that it is willing to offer.If you have an opinion, let us all hear it. Most Pakistani seem unwilling to seriously discuss the matter & continue to take shelter in the maximalist position and seem to have very little opinion on what is a realistic position that India could agree to & what Pakistan is willing to offer in such a grand bargain. Asking something for nothing will have to be recognised as not being workable.

 

[selvan33]

India hopes for good ties with Pak under Nawaz Sharif

NEW DELHI: External affairs minister Salman Khurshid on Sunday hoped that India will continue to have good relations with Pakistan if former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif comes to power after the general elections there.

"India welcomes whatever result that comes out of a democratic election. Our government has had relations with Nawaz Sharif. From Prime Minister's side also congratulations will be offered to him," Khurshid said.

"I hope we can continue to have good relations if he comes to power," he said.

Sharif was on Sunday set for a third term as Pakistan's prime minister as his PML-N party took a massive lead over its rivals in early poll results, making a remarkable comeback after having been toppled in a military coup in 1999 and sent into exile. He returned to Pakistan shortly before the 2008 polls and rebuilt his party.

However, as per Pakistan TV projections, no single party would win a simple majority of 172 seats in the 342-member National Assembly.

Sharif's centre-right Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N) was leading the race with 126 seats and Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) had 34.
India hopes for good ties with Pak under Nawaz Sharif - The Times of India

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....

I agree. Add an equal bit of territory from your side & we will do exactly what you say......
.......

Name it. Which part defines "equal territory". Let's have a discussion.

.....
......I agree. Still haven't figured out what it is that Pakistan realistically wants ....

Not complicated. Not at all.

Pakistanis want negotiated settlement of any issue that makes our relations bitter. The same thing India offers to those who don't even belong to our soil.


Just negotiate with us.


That's all.


Siachin. Negotiate. Don't send your military first and then do ayeeeen bayeeeen shayeeeen.
Water. Negotiate. Don't send your military first and then do ayeeeen bayeeeen shayeeeen.



In some ways I see this childish behavior of Indian baboos. (Not that our baboos are any less childish).


You want transit trade rights for tiny Afghanistani market,

--

But you all are ignoring 200 million strong Pakistani market.

Pakistani market is larger than combined market of all other countries on our Western side. All other.

Indian baboos are damned fools to pick petty fights with 200 million market and go try to win Irani market (80 million), Afghan (20 million), Central Asian republics (20 million all combined).


Only Iranian economy offers a teeny bit advantage for Indian goods and services. No other country on our Western border has any advantage (over Pakistan) whatsoever from Indian pov.


And yet, so many Indians ignore all that and keep on spreading petty disputes and the use of military, when

Everything can be solved on the table, while enjoying curry, biryani then followed by chai biscuit.


But I know very few Indian posters on PDF will understand this. Very very few.


peace

 

[Vinod2070]

Indian baboos are damned fools to pick petty fights with 200 million market and go try to win Irani market (80 million), Afghan (20 million), Central Asian republics (20 million all combined).

While not really a fan of Indian baboos, they have to be practical. They can't force trade (or anything) down anyone's throat.

Is Pakistan ready for unfettered trade with India?

India doesn't need anything that is in Pakistan's control. We should absolutely have peace and trade and possibly friendship.

It means giving up on unrealistic expectations of boundary change, achieving foreign policy goals through terrorism or trying to look at the world through the "ideological" lens.

We should look at each other as any other neighbor with whom one can have normal, friendly relations while competing at the same time in some aspects.

 

[Hyperion]

If I can somehow kill my soul and live under the rule of Nawaz League, I'm sure I can do much better with India in control. Nough said.

 

[Dubious]

I agree. Add an equal bit of territory from your side & we will do exactly what you say. I see no logic in only agreeing to put territory controlled by India up for some sort of joint sharing.

@Bang Galore Had we wanted to be ruled under India, MOST of us WOULDNT have left it for PAKISTAN in the 1st place!

WE left and moved to this land....WHY ON EARTH would we want to go back?

Exaxtly
So how about changing your attitude and forget about Kashmir?

@Fuego you are the ones WHO WANT THE FRIENDSHIP and be our allies...So YOU should change or stop being delusional!

 

[arp2041]

[MENTION=24361]@Fuego you are the ones WHO WANT THE FRIENDSHIP and be our allies...So YOU should change or stop being delusional!

@Talon did you even click on the link of the OP??

It's from a neutral POV.

India is not dying to have a friendship with Pak, we are at better position Globally not Pak (economically, demographically, politically, militarily, diplomatically, etc.).

But we are trying to achieve Peace which can be beneficial for our entire region.

 

[pakdefender]

Nawaz Sharif , technically speaking , is Kashmiri and a lot of his support base is among Kashmiris.
It will be expected from him to bring up the Kashmir issue at the national and the international level.

 

[FaujHistorian]

While not really a fan of Indian baboos, they have to be practical. They can't force trade (or anything) down anyone's throat.

Is Pakistan ready for unfettered trade with India?

India doesn't need anything that is in Pakistan's control. We should absolutely have peace and trade and possibly friendship.

It means giving up on unrealistic expectations of boundary change, achieving foreign policy goals through terrorism or trying to look at the world through the "ideological" lens.

We should look at each other as any other neighbor with whom one can have normal, friendly relations while competing at the same time in some aspects.

These corrupt baboos are in cahoots with corrupt politicians.

they are the biggest hurdle in the trade.

However lately,

-- Some of this Baboo power has been snatched away by the pragmatic businessmen on both sides of the border.


Few recent examples that many of you do not know come from the business tycoons from India and Pakistan forcing these baboos to do away with transit across Wagah gate.

It used be for petty stuff only.

the rest of the Indian products would go to Mumbai, then to Karachi and then back up to Northern Pakistan.


That stupid rule is no longer there perhaps after decades.


Boundary change is and f'd up idea that almost entire elite of Pakistan has thrown in the Arabian sea long time ago.

Unfortunately Indian baboos and TV honchos and the generals did not realize that change.

And

that's why so many Indians (who are ignorant of ground realities in Pakistan) keep on living in the past.



peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Bang Galore Had we wanted to be ruled under India, MOST of us WOULDNT have left it for PAKISTAN in the 1st place!

WE left and moved to this land....WHY ON EARTH would we want to go back?
...!

You know I admire your posts.

On this one, I'd do a slightly update.


Very very very few Muslims left India on their own. And the ones who left on their own accord did not do so around 1947. They came in later in 1948-through-1950 when the madness and bloodshed of partition was over.



Majority of East Punjabis did not want to leave their ancestral lands. they were forced out. Ethnically cleansed.
Majority of Hyderabadi Muslims were the privileged class, they were forced out.

In 1947, Only a small number of government baboos mainly from Delhi (being the capital) and few high level military/police officers left at their own to joining the government of Pakistan.


So let's keep the history in our mind when talking about the dark days of 1947.


peace.