Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft [AMCA] Development | Updates & Discussions.

[topgun047]

That's not correct, since it also reduced the fuel capacity of the wings, that's why naval varients of land based stealth fighters usually are designed with larger but folding wings.

Why do naval variants need more fuel ?
I think they have larger wings because of short take off distance.
Is there any plan to change the wing size or develop folding wings for AMCA ?
I believe they should tinker as little with the original design for naval version.

 

[xyxmt]

how many paper plane project India has

 

[sancho]

Why do naval variants need more fuel ?

Because they have to operate with less tanker support and to project the power far away from the carrier itself. That makes higher fuel capacity important for carrier fighters, one reason why LCA MK2 will get additional fuel tanks too, which is a IN requirement.

Is there any plan to change the wing size or develop folding wings for AMCA ?
I believe they should tinker as little with the original design for naval version.

First they need to consider a naval varient, before they can think about folding wings and even if there are thoughts about it by DRDO, the IN has not made official statements on that. Sadly DRDO follows the same silly development approach as they did with LCA and will try to develop a naval varient from the land based, which is far more difficult than doing it the other way around.

 

[topgun047]

Because they have to operate with less tanker support and to project the power far away from the carrier itself. That makes higher fuel capacity important for carrier fighters, one reason why LCA MK2 will get additional fuel tanks too, which is a IN requirement.



First they need to consider a naval varient, before they can think about folding wings and even if there are thoughts about it by DRDO, the IN has not made official statements on that. Sadly DRDO follows the same silly development approach as they did with LCA and will try to develop a naval varient from the land based, which is far more difficult than doing it the other way around.

I think they should forget about extra fuel capacity for N-AMCA, just focus on getting it out as early as possible.
use it as a pure interceptor but get naval version early.
If there is demand from IN, they can modify it to increase range at a later date.

And perhaps the humongously long fuselage will carry enough fuel.

 

[gslv mk3]

how many paper plane project India has

We have several successful projects and several new projects in the pipeline..Anyway modern aircraft design is a paperless process

Why so butthurt ?

 

[Dandpatta]

^^^ It's not about being butt hurt. It's the extra helping of "Gosht" in the diet that causes them constipation.

 

[Badbadman]

We have several successful projects and several new projects in the pipeline..Anyway modern aircraft design is a paperless process

Why so butthurt ?

Good one

 

[sancho]

Let me quote myself wrt Turkey and the TFX engine choice:

The latest news is, that they signed MoUs with Eurojet for joint systems of the EJ 200 and that hints to a clear direction. Saab as a partner for the design, Eurojet as the engine provider, some parts from the US..., as I said, they get things done.

=>

Eurojet May Find Role in Turk Fighter

European engine-maker Eurojet Turbo may find a role in powering what would become Turkey's first indigenous fighter jet, industry sources and analysts said...

..."The intended collaboration is primarily based on the EJ200 engine, which is currently employed on the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet and may find application in the Turkish TFX program. The parties have also agreed to explore further opportunities targeting the global market."...

....Turkey has said it is looking for alternative programs to locally develop an engine for the TFX through national engine-maker Tusas Turkish Engine Industries (TEI).
"Eurojet's partnership with Aselsan may lead to a coproduction deal with TEI," the aerospace expert said. "In such a program, Aselsan would be tasked to manufacture electronic parts for the engine."...

Eurojet May Find Role in Turk Fighter


So why we scrap our own failed engine program and now send out RFIs for suitable foreign engines in licence production deals to cover the mistakes, other countries show us how it's done the the right way. Trying to team up with foreign experienced partners, to jointly develop and produce an engine. Another chance missed.

 

[skysthelimit]

ADA Details Stealth AMCA Engine Plans


ADA seems to have refined and narrowed its AMCA powerplant options. The 25-tonne class AMCA is to be fitted with a 110-kN engine. However, currently no 110-kN class engine is available in the world market.

So ADA will design the fighter around a 110-kN engine, but use a 90-kN off-the-shelf engine to power prototypes of the aircraft, giving itself time to develop a 110-kN engine.

ADA Director PS Subramanyam told The Hindu that it would be prudent to procure and integrate an available 90-kN engine into the aircraft so to ensure that the project was not held up.

“Since the fighter has been designed to take on an engine with a higher thrust, we can integrate it as and when such an engine is available. This is what has been done by Dassault in the Rafael development program,” he says.

Elaborating on AMCA powerplant options, K. Tamilmani, Director-General (Aero R&D) told the press that since no 110-kN engine is available off the shelf, GTRE will partner with a US or Russian engine manufacturer to develop such an engine - mostly within India - to power AMCA production variants.

“We have asked for their proposals [and will go ahead with] whoever has a better offer, time frame and cost," he said. The goal is to integrate the new engine into the aircraft by 2020-21.

DRDO and IAF officials will hold talks with two manufacturers during Aero India 2015 - General Electric of US and Klimo of Russia.

Interestingly, Tamilmani didn't mention French Snecma - an early front runner for co-producing an AMCA engine with GTRE.

It may be noted that the joint statement released during US President Barack Obama's visit to India from January 25 to 27, 2015 referred to US - Indian collaboration in developing a hot engine (A reference to a jet engine with high turbine temperatures and greater thrust.)

It was earlier reported that the AMCA will be powered by a new engine that GTRE plans to develop with the help of one or more foreign consultants, Snecma being one of them.

On January 8, 2015 the TOI reported that five to six global aero-engine manufacturers have made presentation to ADA for the AMCA engine. It is likely that ADA has now narrowed down its options based on the presentations.

Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: ADA Details Stealth AMCA Engine Plans

 

[Abingdonboy]

If you've had enough of models and artist's impressions, tough! It's AeroIndia time, and that means the customary flood of official 3D art, wind-tunnel models etc. Got my hands on the brochure on the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) that'll be handed out at Aero India this year: it contains these two impressions of India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, the country's indigenous fifth generation concept stealth fighter, with the apparently frozen airframe config.

The baffling image though is the second one (below), which it calls the AMCA's 'non-stealth configuration', deploying external weapons and stores including drop tanks, JDAM-like PGMs, air-to-air missiles and two pods. At any rate, it's an indication of the design thought process: That designers at the ADA are looking at giving the AMCA external hardpoints in addition to internal bays (which makes little sense given what hardpoints do for radar signature). The other possibility is a variant that deploys only external stores, and has no internal bays (which makes even littler sense for an aircraft intended to be a low-observable platform). Not sure what to make of this.

The brochure comes with some updated literature on profile and capabilities the team is looking to give the AMCA. Brochures at air shows are usually the last place you want to look for solid data on concept programmes, but here's the latest from Team AMCA:

LIVEFIST: EXCLUSIVE: India's 5th Gen Fighter Concept & Its Non-Stealth Avatar

Shiv is being a little obtuse, even the PAK-FA, F-22 and F-35 as designed to have external stores for specific missions, it makes sense the AMCA will have this capability.

 

[sancho]

Shiv is being a little obtuse, even the PAK-FA, F-22 and F-35 as designed to have external stores for specific missions, it makes sense the AMCA will have this capability.

True, but it's still nonsense to use AMCA in IAF for any mission that would require external loads (lower risk missions), since we would still operate Jags, LCAs and MKIs (hopefully MMRCAs too), by the time they hope AMCA will be available. All of them would not only be more than sufficient to do CAS, but even more cost-effective to operate than an AMCA. If we also will have armed Rustom H drones, CAS will be completely outsourced to unmanned aircrafts anyway. This again shows the lack of comprehension within ADA and DRDO, to look what IAF / IN actually needs and not to what others have, which ADA / DRDO try to match too.

 

[possumlot]

True, but it's still nonsense to use AMCA in IAF for any mission that would require external loads (lower risk missions), since we would still operate Jags, LCAs and MKIs (hopefully MMRCAs too), by the time they hope AMCA will be available. All of them would not only be more than sufficient to do CAS, but even more cost-effective to operate than an AMCA. If we also will have armed Rustom H drones, CAS will be completely outsourced to unmanned aircrafts anyway. This again shows the lack of comprehension within ADA and DRDO, to look what IAF / IN actually needs and not to what others have, which ADA / DRDO try to match too.

Then the Onus is on the IAF to guide ADA and DRDO back to what they realistically need.

Lets hope they measure up to their responsibilities. If not then MMRCA cancellation might just be the Kick they require.

 

[Agent_47]

 

[sancho]

Then the Onus is on the IAF to guide ADA and DRDO back to what they realistically need.

Lets hope they measure up to their responsibilities. If not then MMRCA cancellation might just be the Kick they require.

That's sadly not how it works in India, since not the forces decide about what developments should be started, it's DRDO and HAL. That's why you have AMCA, AWACS India or HTT 40 in concept stages, while IAF wants / needs none of them. Just why IN is not getting an indigenous 5th gen fighter anytime soon and needs to support a useless N-LCA, although a naval stealth fighter is the need of the hour, but still DRDO is only focusing AMCA as an air force fighter.

 

[Abingdonboy]

True, but it's still nonsense to use AMCA in IAF for any mission that would require external loads (lower risk missions), since we would still operate Jags, LCAs and MKIs (hopefully MMRCAs too), by the time they hope AMCA will be available. All of them would not only be more than sufficient to do CAS, but even more cost-effective to operate than an AMCA. If we also will have armed Rustom H drones, CAS will be completely outsourced to unmanned aircrafts anyway. This again shows the lack of comprehension within ADA and DRDO, to look what IAF / IN actually needs and not to what others have, which ADA / DRDO try to match too.

Sir I don't agree, what you say is correct but it is better to design such capabilities into the airframe from the start just in case, you then build in added utility into the AMCA and one day the LCA, MKI, Jags (sooner than later) and MMRCA will be out of service and the AMCA is being brought in as a replacement/future generation a/c so needs to be able to stand on its own two feet.

It's better to have and not need then need and not have IMHO.


If the designers hadn't built in the provision of external stores I can imagine the bashing they would get for not thinking ahead or designing an all round product.