Adolf Hitler and the side of History never before seen.

[Desert Fox]

Part 13

Part 14

Part 15

 

[Desert Fox]

Part 16

Part 17

Part 18

 

[Desert Fox]

You could not be more wrong about this, if the average Soviet soldier was a coward as you state, we would be speaking German right now. The Soviets fought with exceptional bravery and valour despite the heavily tilted odds against them in the beginning. They fought 'Battles of Annihilation' against the Germans, and in the end their determination proved superior to that of the Germans which brought the eventual downfall of Nazi Germany. The thinking among the average Soviet soldier was simple, they would fight till the last man for the defence of the 'Motherland' or die trying.

Of course many Red Army troops did fight with exceptional bravery, but it would be injustice to say that the Germans lacked determination or that their determination was inferior, there is no measurement of that when millions of men from both sides are willing to fight to the bitter end.

But one should also keep in mind, that with the determination to defend the Motherland, there was also the fear of the consequences they'd face at the hands of Stalin. Keep in mind that Stalin ordered the creation of special units which would open fire on any soldier retreating from the front, and any weak links within the front line units would be disposed of right on the spot.
After that order, there was a drastic noticeable change in Red army patterns, when before that 3 million+ Red Army soldiers surrendered to the Axis within 3-4 weeks of the German invasion.
Whole Army groups surrendered without putting up much resistance.

 

[Desert Fox]

Hitler despised anyone who was not an "Aryan" German!

The same way as Churchill despised anyone who was not an English, in fact he is famously quoted as having said: Churchill told the secretary of state for India, Leo Amery, that the Indians were “the beastliest people in the world, next to the Germans,”


And in the same manner, Roosevelt too, was nothing short of a "racist": After the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Roosevelt invited to the White House all of the White American athletes who participated in the Olympics, but he left out Jesse Owens, the first African American Olympic Gold Medalist, and in fact snubbed him.

Now you will be surprised to find that it was Hitler who congratulated the Black American Athlete, as Jesse Owens himself once said: "Hitler didnt snub me. It was FDR who snubbed me. He didn't even send me a telegram." Owens said.

Forget Hitler - it was America that snubbed black Olympian Jesse Owens | Mail Online

Hitler 'shook hands' with black 1936 Olympic hero Jesse Owens | Mail Online

Now, Harry S. Truman, who would later take the seat of power following FDR's death, was a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, better known as the KKK. Famous for lynching Black people in the south.

Yep, these were the Western "Liberators" of Europe, fighting for "freedom, equality, and justice", but to them lives mattered very little, what mattered more was the green stuff and who was willing to stuff their pockets with more of it, and obviously, the international banks funded these lot and they towed their lines.


Now, i don't even want to begin to talk about Joseph Stalin, whom the Americans once called "Uncle Joe". We all know how tolerant he was, so tolerant and that he sentenced entire towns, villages, and cities to death.


Hitler was Racist, but that was typical of all major World leaders of his time, from Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman, to Stalin. However, in comparison to the latter lot, he was far more tolerant of other races except for those whom he deemed a threat to the existence of the German people and nation. He believed in the "live and let live" philosophy.


I would suggest you to watch Part 14 of the series i posted on this thread, but a little research would go a long way.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

OP- comparisons make no difference; just because Churchill was an unpleasant bigot does not mean we can mention him and Hitler in the same breath.

Hitler was pure and simple the personification of evil. There are no two ways about it.

And yes, Stalin was hardy much better. Perhaps just a little bit, but he too was a mass murderer.

Had it not been for his humanitarian crimes, racism, bigotry and emotional decisions, he could have turned the course of history and today we would all be speaking German rather than English!

In short, had Hitler not been Hitler, he could have turned the course of history.

 

[somebozo]

The same way as Churchill despised anyone who was not an English, in fact he is famously quoted as having said: Churchill told the secretary of state for India, Leo Amery, that the Indians were “the beastliest people in the world, next to the Germans,”


And in the same manner, Roosevelt too, was nothing short of a "racist": After the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Roosevelt invited to the White House all of the White American athletes who participated in the Olympics, but he left out Jesse Owens, the first African American Olympic Gold Medalist, and in fact snubbed him.

Now you will be surprised to find that it was Hitler who congratulated the Black American Athlete, as Jesse Owens himself once said: "Hitler didnt snub me. It was FDR who snubbed me. He didn't even send me a telegram." Owens said.

Forget Hitler - it was America that snubbed black Olympian Jesse Owens | Mail Online

Hitler 'shook hands' with black 1936 Olympic hero Jesse Owens | Mail Online

Now, Harry S. Truman, who would later take the seat of power following FDR's death, was a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, better known as the KKK. Famous for lynching Black people in the south.

Yep, these were the Western "Liberators" of Europe, fighting for "freedom, equality, and justice", but to them lives mattered very little, what mattered more was the green stuff and who was willing to stuff their pockets with more of it, and obviously, the international banks funded these lot and they towed their lines.


Now, i don't even want to begin to talk about Joseph Stalin, whom the Americans once called "Uncle Joe". We all know how tolerant he was, so tolerant and that he sentenced entire towns, villages, and cities to death.


Hitler was Racist, but that was typical of all major World leaders of his time, from Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman, to Stalin. However, in comparison to the latter lot, he was far more tolerant of other races except for those whom he deemed a threat to the existence of the German people and nation. He believed in the "live and let live" philosophy.


I would suggest you to watch Part 14 of the series i posted on this thread, but a little research would go a long way.

History is always written as the good guy against bad guy in black and white manner - and the winner is always the good guy no matter how evil. Stalin ostensibly killed more people than Hitler could ever envision yet nobody speaks about Soviet Holocaust. However denying Nazi Holocaust would land you a jail term. Similary British economical policies caused wide spread famine and death in many colonies - mainly in India yet there is no discussion about British Holocaust either!

 

[Joe Shearer]

History is always written as the good guy against bad guy in black and white manner - and the winner is always the good guy no matter how evil. Stalin ostensibly killed more people than Hitler could ever envision yet nobody speaks about Soviet Holocaust. However denying Nazi Holocaust would land you a jail term. Similary British economical policies caused wide spread famine and death in many colonies - mainly in India yet there is no discussion about British Holocaust either!

Churchill's Secret War, By Madhusree Mukerjee - Reviews - Books - The Independent

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Churchill's Secret War, By Madhusree Mukerjee - Reviews - Books - The Independent

@Joe Shearer

sir' Joe in such an interesting & educative thread on the history assessment regarding WW2, you not participating is an injustice to pdf !
looking forward to your input

 

[Aslan]

I would not take this documentary with a pinch of salt, but rather a fist full. But at the same time, why should the American, the British and or the Soviet and oh who can forget the french, version be believable. The one injustice that had happened from the dawn of civilization is that we never get to hear the complete truth, and it is always hidden, hidden right in the middle of what did and didnt happen.

But I really cant stop my self from a smile or 2 of sarcasm that is that when the above mentioned nations do come out and lecture the world about human rights, about democracy and freedom. Oh the audacity, the hypocrisy, the guts. Then why shouldnt they, after all they did win right. But, but, but.............. But who cares.

They do that right after what they did to the native Americans i.e the red indians, the British and the french in their so called colonies. Where thousands upon thousands died just because they were inferior to their occupying masters, where they were given new identities, both racial, and political, where they bred a new breed of donkeys the so called political elites, aka their slaves and the children of their loyal dogs who could and still do rule us till date. The vampires who till date are drinking us dry, and oh God forbid if we try to raise a voice against them, the french will come kick your butt like they did in Mali.

But, but, but............. Yes but why blame them, we have never been short of traitors, and we will never be short of traitors, we will blindly believe in what their news channels want us to believe in without questions, and if you do ask, which you are not allowed to, then well we have names for ya, you are a conspiracy theorist, a madrassa bred, ignorant, extremist, non libreal, facist, Islamist, radical bla bla bla. But, but, but........ All I did was ask a question, how dare you.

Welcome to the world of Zombies, of by the way you should def watch warm bodies, nice movie.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Of course many Red Army troops did fight with exceptional bravery, but it would be injustice to say that the Germans lacked determination or that their determination was inferior, there is no measurement of that when millions of men from both sides are willing to fight to the bitter end.

No doubt about that, you would be spot on to state that the overall the average German soldier was much more disciplined and better trained than his counterpart. But i would argue that the Soviets were more determined than the Germans, after all they were defending their 'Mother Land'. It was their superior determination at Stalingrad where they stubbornly resisted despite the overwhelming odds which gained them the momentum they needed to put an end to Nazi Offensives.

But one should also keep in mind, that with the determination to defend the Motherland, there was also the fear of the consequences they'd face at the hands of Stalin. Keep in mind that Stalin ordered the creation of special units which would open fire on any soldier retreating from the front, and any weak links within the front line units would be disposed of right on the spot.

Actually they were more afraid of the Germans than they were of Stalin. The German Invasion and occupation was nothing short of 'barbaric' against the Slavs. The Slavs were considered lesser than animals which convinced the average Soviet citizen that Stalin's rule despite barbaric was much better compared to that of the Nazis.

Stalin's orders make sense because the average Soviet soldier was a conscript with no history of any battlefield experience. Compare that to the average Nazi officers and soldiers whom had already seen action in France.

After that order, there was a drastic noticeable change in Red army patterns, when before that 3 million+ Red Army soldiers surrendered to the Axis within 3-4 weeks of the German invasion.
Whole Army groups surrendered without putting up much resistance.

Indeed, because they were not prepared for the German onslaught. The Soviets lacked a disciplined officer core after the 'Great Purge', this is a field where the Germans had complete dominance in. But as the war went on, talent was allowed to come up through the Soviet ranks which enabled very capable officers to rise up. Zhukov, Rokossovsky could run circles around their German counterparts as they proved on later during the war.

@Joe Shearer

sir' Joe in such an interesting & educative thread on the history assessment regarding WW2, you not participating is an injustice to pdf !
looking forward to your input

I agree, its an absolute injustice to this thread that Hon @Joe Shearer wrote a one liner. This is a sign that judgement day is near

 

[FaujHistorian]

Bastard son of a ...

Although, i'm also a bit amused...Hitler might even have personally overseen your execution--the moment you go "heil ..."

So true.

It is just pathetic to see how many Pakistani (and Indians) posters admire black faced turd known as hitler.

Even when the same hitler would kill these "lesser races" in no time whatsoever.

Arabs admire Hitler lackies like Mufti-tootsie-Azam of Palestine, and Indians admire the Hitler chamcha Subas Chandar bose.

Pakistanis don't know why they are admiring Hitler,

But I suspect their "love of Hitler" is copied from some 2-bit Arabs and Palestinians.


Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about Pakistan's fauji history (military history) knows and appreciates that people from modern day Pakistan willingly sacrificed in 100s of 1000s while fighting Nazis.

WW-2 graveyards (marked and unknowns) are filled with dead bodies of the modern day Pakistani ancestors.

Because they stood at the right side of history

And yet, these idiots try to idolize dimwit 2-bit pathetic SOG like Hitler.
Forcing and making a Pakistani forum to stand on the wrong side of history.

No wonder the same fascination with 2-bit mafiosos continues on when many of us (unfortunately) admire their barbarity:

case in point

-- Many Pakistanis admired 2-bit madar-ch* Sad-Damn and put up his pics on major streets.
-- Many Pakistanis admired 2-bit madar-ch* Gaddah-fi (Donkey-is) and still are keeping a major sports stadium in this pig's name.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit Yes-Sir-Are-Phat who drove his people into the ground and name their newborn sons as Yasir.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Burqaposh Mullah and let him run amock in our society.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Altaf Mota Chor, Bhatta Khor and vote for him over and over and over while that phat @rse enjoys monthly stipend from UK as a British citizen.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Ben Fing Laden and made him an fing hero while he screwed Pakistan and his multiple wives few hundred yards from our premier military academy.


I can go on, but you see the pattern. Don't you?

Many of us do not know the difference between right and wrong in the context of modern world. And thus continue following stone age ways like pathetic janglees (petty tribals).

No wonder this pathetic thinking has brought the reputation of our beautiful country almost down to the level of basket case Somalia, Yemen, and Sierra Leon.

But we won't quit.

We will continue our "hard work" of admiring and following the ways of 2-bit mader-ch***s until our country

--- becomes a slave of India, under the boots of Indian army, or
--- worse under the chappals of Talib-bozos like Mullah Aziz (the black faced) or
--- even worse we destroy it with our bloody hands all thanks to a mass nukie suicide.


Yes, shamefully, this is what many admirers of Hitler will make Pakistan even though they claim to be the so-called educated and modern and live in UK/US/Canada.

Oh what an irony!

What an fing irony!


DISCLAIMER:

Nothing personal my dear posters. Nothing personal. You are all free to express your love for Hitler. I am just saying what will happen to pakistan if don't worry about the long term survival of our beautiful country.

So please please do not get offended. I am writing this down to oppose bad stone age ideas and not individuals. Thank you.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

sir' Joe in such an interesting & educative thread on the history assessment regarding WW2, you not participating is an injustice to pdf !
looking forward to your input

No doubt about that, you would be spot on to state that the overall the average German soldier was much more disciplined and better trained than his counterpart. But i would argue that the Soviets were more determined than the Germans, after all they were defending their 'Mother Land'. It was their superior determination at Stalingrad where they stubbornly resisted despite the overwhelming odds which gained them the momentum they needed to put an end to Nazi Offensives.



Actually they were more afraid of the Germans than they were of Stalin. The German Invasion and occupation was nothing short of 'barbaric' against the Slavs. The Slavs were considered lesser than animals which convinced the average Soviet citizen that Stalin's rule despite barbaric was much better compared to that of the Nazis.

Stalin's orders make sense because the average Soviet soldier was a conscript with no history of any battlefield experience. Compare that to the average Nazi officers and soldiers whom had already seen action in France.

Indeed, because they were not prepared for the German onslaught. The Soviets lacked a disciplined officer core after the 'Great Purge', this is a field where the Germans had complete dominance in. But as the war went on, talent was allowed to come up through the Soviet ranks which enabled very capable officers to rise up. Zhukov, Rokossovsky could run circles around their German counterparts as they proved on later during the war.

I agree, its an absolute injustice to this thread that Hon @Joe Shearer wrote a one liner. This is a sign that judgement day is near

I note with appreciation that notorious_eagle has spotted my tendency to write in some detail. Future posts will be kept as short as possible

I haven't posted on this thread because of three reasons: (1) I was busy submitting some work against an assignment; (2) my reading is taking up increasing time; you will be amused to learn that the three books I am reading now are (a) An Anthropologist among the Historians and Other Essays, by Bernard S. Cohn, (b) Remembering Revolution: Gender, Violence, and Subjectivity in India's Naxalbari Movement, and - wait for it! - (c) Stalin's General: the Life of Georgy Zhukov. ; (3) I hadn't noticed the thread till somebody asked me about Churchill.

Now, at this moment, I am totally in spirit with FaujHistorian and his blunt, honest reply. May his tribe increase! He has, however, left space for consideration of military issues relating to the Great Patriotic War; perhaps, if the discussion goes in that direction.....

 

[Aslan]

I am no expert either in military affairs, and or history as well. A selective reader, and mostly do that when I am in a mood. I just want to put a hypothetical scenario in front of the experts here, I am sure it might have been discussed earlier. So during the siege of Moscow, the Russians were able to move their more seasoned soldiers from Siberia and Mongolia, soldiers who were better prepared mentally to fight in the harsh winter, as they lived their lives in snow allies of Mongolia and Siberia. So now here is my question. The what if's:

So lets say what if the Americans were willing to put their involvement on hold till they were poked, and forced to get involved. What if the Japanese had not hit the Americans, and rather had hit the Russians on the Mongolian front, and had bogged down the Russians there, what would have been the outcome of the Moscow siege. Would the Germans have been able to run over it.

 

[Aslan]

So true.

It is just pathetic to see how many Pakistani (and Indians) posters admire black faced turd known as hitler.

Even when the same hitler would kill these "lesser races" in no time whatsoever.

Arabs admire Hitler lackies like Mufti-tootsie-Azam of Palestine, and Indians admire the Hitler chamcha Subas Chandar bose.

Pakistanis don't know why they are admiring Hitler,

But I suspect their "love of Hitler" is copied from some 2-bit Arabs and Palestinians.


Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about Pakistan's fauji history (military history) knows and appreciates that people from modern day Pakistan willingly sacrificed in 100s of 1000s while fighting Nazis.

WW-2 graveyards (marked and unknowns) are filled with dead bodies of the modern day Pakistani ancestors.

Because they stood at the right side of history

And yet, these idiots try to idolize dimwit 2-bit pathetic SOG like Hitler.
Forcing and making a Pakistani forum to stand on the wrong side of history.

No wonder the same fascination with 2-bit mafiosos continues on when many of us (unfortunately) admire their barbarity:

case in point

-- Many Pakistanis admired 2-bit madar-ch* Sad-Damn and put up his pics on major streets.
-- Many Pakistanis admired 2-bit madar-ch* Gaddah-fi (Donkey-is) and still are keeping a major sports stadium in this pig's name.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit Yes-Sir-Are-Phat who drove his people into the ground and name their newborn sons as Yasir.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Burqaposh Mullah and let him run amock in our society.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Altaf Mota Chor, Bhatta Khor and vote for him over and over and over while that phat @rse enjoys monthly stipend from UK as a British citizen.
-- Many Pakistanis admire 2-bit madar-ch* Ben Fing Laden and made him an fing hero while he screwed Pakistan and his multiple wives few hundred yards from our premier military academy.


I can go on, but you see the pattern. Don't you?

Many of us do not know the difference between right and wrong in the context of modern world. And thus continue following stone age ways like pathetic janglees (petty tribals).

No wonder this pathetic thinking has brought the reputation of our beautiful country almost down to the level of basket case Somalia, Yemen, and Sierra Leon.

But we won't quit.

We will continue our "hard work" of admiring and following the ways of 2-bit mader-ch***s until our country

--- becomes a slave of India, under the boots of Indian army, or
--- worse under the chappals of Talib-bozos like Mullah Aziz (the black faced) or
--- even worse we destroy it with our bloody hands all thanks to a mass nukie suicide.


Yes, shamefully, this is what many admirers of Hitler will make Pakistan even though they claim to be the so-called educated and modern and live in UK/US/Canada.

Oh what an irony!

What an fing irony!


DISCLAIMER:

Nothing personal my dear posters. Nothing personal. You are all free to express your love for Hitler. I am just saying what will happen to pakistan if don't worry about the long term survival of our beautiful country.

So please please do not get offended. I am writing this down to oppose bad stone age ideas and not individuals. Thank you.

Dear Sir, how would you define stone age mentality. Is it the religion, or the culture. The problem in our country is not that we are Muslims, and we are trying to be Muslims, but the issue is the lack of knowledge and understanding. Where the illiterate masses are manipulated in the name of religion. Wrongfully led astray and then abused as per the wishes of the manipulator. That does not dissolve us or frees us from our responsibility. But unfortunately we are all party of it, rather then fixing the mess or trying to fix the mess, we conveniently point a finger at the others. Where we are still unwillingly pointing 3 back to our selves, but dont know that we are.

I understand where you are coming from, but why blame others for our sins. And I dont agree with you when you say that our ancestors fought for the right side of the history. The only thing they did was fought and died for one side that still didnt care about how many of us died, all they needed was that war machine to work for them, and our men be there to fight for their survival. What if Germans were occupying the Sub continent at that time, and we were fighting for them, would we still have been on the right side of the history.

The British never gave 2 chits about the brown skinned sipohis, all they cared for was the victory. Do you think the Brits would have actually won the war all on their own, them and the French. And or with out the constant flow of slaves from the subcontinent flowing in fighting like warriors and diying like nobody's. Do you really think that they would have kept the Germans, out of Africa with out our men putting their lives on the line for them, and fighting the white mans war. Sir I believe that, that was neither our war to fight nor to win. What our men did was acted like obedient slaves, and died like one. We kept alive a notion, an entity that did nothing but bit us in the @&& and left us with a bigger mess then we ever wanted to inherit. And still comes back to tell us how to run our country, live our lives, and still our politicians are very obedient to their gora masters. The Gora Saab.

What Mufti did was an alliance of convenience, tell me honestly if you were in his shoes and were the Mufti-tootsie-Azam of Palestine what would you have done, when your family had slaughtered in the streets like a strayed dog, what if half your nation was kicked out of their houses and were forced into a life of nothing. And the rest of the half living under a constant threat of well u know..............

Hope u dont mind what I had said, just a curious thought.

 

[junaid1]

Hitler should be regarded as the Gretest leaders of Germany including Rodolf Hass ,Hermen Goering , Himler .istead all of them were murdered through western courts .