Sugarcane
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We so called "Muslims" deserve it, he is still respectful and didn't said terrorists
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Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan
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We so called "Muslims" deserve it, he is still respectful and didn't said terrorists
Sugarcane
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Apperantly you even don't believe following Hadith's
And yes following is Last sermon and "Sahih Hadith"
Armstrong
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Nothing - Just trying to defend Quran
Whats his point of view & whats yours ?
I'm too lazy to go through all of that !
Sugarcane
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Whats his point of view & whats yours ?
I'm too lazy to go through all of that !
haha... I am Saying that Quran is "Easy & Complete" as per God's claim in Quran and is complete guidance. He is saying it's difficult and not complete - You need Hadiths to understand it. My argument is that i will check the validity of Hadith as per guidance of Quran - He says that you can't question Hadith, If you don't accept it as it is than you are denying Prophet (PBUH) and are apostate and as per Hadith i have to be killed - so simple
Albatross
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Yar yeh tum logo ne kya pandora box khol rakha hai read all this patiently aur sub ko sakoon aa jaye ga...
The word Muslim means one who submits to the will of God, regardless of their race, nationality or ethnic background. Becoming a Muslim is a simple and easy process that requires no pre-requisites. One may convert alone in privacy, or he/she may do so in the presence of others.
If anyone has a real desire to be a Muslim and has full conviction and strong belief that Islam is the true religion of God, then, all one needs to do is pronounce the Shahada, the testimony of faith, without further delay. The Shahada is the first and most important of the five pillars of Islam.
With the pronunciation of this testimony, or Shahada, with sincere belief and conviction, one enters the fold of Islam.
Upon entering the fold of Islam purely for the Pleasure of God, all of ones previous sins are forgiven, and one starts a new life of piety and righteousness. The Prophet said to a person who had placed the condition upon the Prophet in accepting Islam that God would forgive his sins:
Do you not know that accepting Islam destroys all sins which come before it? (Prophet Muhammad (pbuh))
When one accepts Islam, they in essence repent from the ways and beliefs of their previous life. One need not be overburdened by sins committed before their acceptance. The persons record is clean, and it is as if he was just born from his mothers womb. One should try as much as possible to keep his records clean and strive to do as many good deeds as possible.
The Holy Quran and Hadeeth (prophetic sayings) both stress the importance of following Islam. God states:
The only religion in the sight of God is Islam [Quran 3:19]
In another verse of the Holy Quran, God states:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the Hellfire). [Quran 3:85]
In another saying, Muhammad (peace be upon him), the Prophet of God, said:
Whoever testifies that there in none worthy of being worshipped but God, Who has no partner, and that Muhammad is His slave and Prophet, and that Jesus is the Slave of God, His Prophet, and His word[1] which He bestowed in Mary and a spirit created from Him; and that Paradise (Heaven) is true, and that the Hellfire is true, God will eventually admit him into Paradise, according to his deeds. (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet of God, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, also reported:
Indeed God has forbidden to reside eternally in Hell the person who says: I testify that none has the right to worship except Allah (God), seeking thereby the Face of God. (Prophet Muhammad (pbuh))
The Declaration of the Testimony (Shahada)
To convert to Islam and become a Muslim a person needs to pronounce the below testimony with conviction and understanding its meaning:
I testify La ilah illa Allah, Muhammad rasoolu Allah.
The translation of which is:
I testify that there is no true god (deity) but God (Allah), and that Muhammad is a Messenger (Prophet) of God.
When someone pronounces the testimony with conviction, then he/she has become a Muslim. It can be done alone, but it is much better to be done with an adviser through the Live Help at the top, so we may help you in pronouncing it right and to provide you with important resources for new Muslims.
The first part of the testimony consists of the most important truth that God revealed to mankind: that there is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God. God states in the Holy Quran:
We sent all messengers before you with this revelation: There is no deity save Me, so worship Me alone. [Quran 21:25]
This conveys that all forms of worship, whether it be praying, fasting, invoking, seeking refuge in, and offering an animal as sacrifice, must be directed to God and to God alone. Directing any form of worship to other than God (whether it be an angel, a messenger, Jesus, Muhammad, a saint, an idol, the sun, the moon, a tree) is seen as a contradiction to the fundamental message of Islam, and it is an unforgivable sin unless it is repented from before one dies. All forms of worship must be directed to God only.
Worship means the performance of deeds and sayings that please God, things which He commanded or encouraged to be performed, either by direct textual proof or by analogy. Thus, worship is not restricted to the implementation of the five pillars of Islam, but also includes every aspect of life. Providing food for ones family, and saying something pleasant to cheer a person up are also considered acts of worship, if such is done with the intention of pleasing God. This means that, to be accepted, all acts of worship must be carried out sincerely for the Sake of God alone.
The second part of the testimony means that Prophet Muhammad is the servant and chosen messenger of God. This implies that one obeys and follows the commands of the Prophet. One must believe in what he has said, practice his teachings and avoid what he has forbidden. One must therefore worship God only according to his teaching alone, for all the teachings of the Prophet were in fact revelations and inspirations conveyed to him by God.
One must try to mould their lives and character and emulate the Prophet, as he was a living example for humans to follow. God says:
And indeed you are upon a high standard of moral character. [Quran 68:4]
God also said:
And in deed you have a good and upright example in the Messenger of God, for those who hope in the meeting of God and the Hereafter, and mentions God much. (Quran 33:21)
To truly adhere to the second part of the Shahada is to follow his example in all walks of life. God says:
Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love God, then follow me. [Quran 3:31]
And these two are for those who dont wanna belive in hadees..
One must try to mould their lives and character and emulate the Prophet, as he was a living example for humans to follow. God says:
And indeed you are upon a high standard of moral character. [Quran 68:4]
God also said:
And in deed you have a good and upright example in the Messenger of God, for those who hope in the meeting of God and the Hereafter, and mentions God much. (Quran 33:21)
To truly adhere to the second part of the Shahada is to follow his example in all walks of life. God says:
Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love God, then follow me. [Quran 3:31]
The word Muslim means one who submits to the will of God, regardless of their race, nationality or ethnic background. Becoming a Muslim is a simple and easy process that requires no pre-requisites. One may convert alone in privacy, or he/she may do so in the presence of others.
If anyone has a real desire to be a Muslim and has full conviction and strong belief that Islam is the true religion of God, then, all one needs to do is pronounce the Shahada, the testimony of faith, without further delay. The Shahada is the first and most important of the five pillars of Islam.
With the pronunciation of this testimony, or Shahada, with sincere belief and conviction, one enters the fold of Islam.
Upon entering the fold of Islam purely for the Pleasure of God, all of ones previous sins are forgiven, and one starts a new life of piety and righteousness. The Prophet said to a person who had placed the condition upon the Prophet in accepting Islam that God would forgive his sins:
Do you not know that accepting Islam destroys all sins which come before it? (Prophet Muhammad (pbuh))
When one accepts Islam, they in essence repent from the ways and beliefs of their previous life. One need not be overburdened by sins committed before their acceptance. The persons record is clean, and it is as if he was just born from his mothers womb. One should try as much as possible to keep his records clean and strive to do as many good deeds as possible.
The Holy Quran and Hadeeth (prophetic sayings) both stress the importance of following Islam. God states:
The only religion in the sight of God is Islam [Quran 3:19]
In another verse of the Holy Quran, God states:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the Hellfire). [Quran 3:85]
In another saying, Muhammad (peace be upon him), the Prophet of God, said:
Whoever testifies that there in none worthy of being worshipped but God, Who has no partner, and that Muhammad is His slave and Prophet, and that Jesus is the Slave of God, His Prophet, and His word[1] which He bestowed in Mary and a spirit created from Him; and that Paradise (Heaven) is true, and that the Hellfire is true, God will eventually admit him into Paradise, according to his deeds. (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet of God, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, also reported:
Indeed God has forbidden to reside eternally in Hell the person who says: I testify that none has the right to worship except Allah (God), seeking thereby the Face of God. (Prophet Muhammad (pbuh))
The Declaration of the Testimony (Shahada)
To convert to Islam and become a Muslim a person needs to pronounce the below testimony with conviction and understanding its meaning:
I testify La ilah illa Allah, Muhammad rasoolu Allah.
The translation of which is:
I testify that there is no true god (deity) but God (Allah), and that Muhammad is a Messenger (Prophet) of God.
When someone pronounces the testimony with conviction, then he/she has become a Muslim. It can be done alone, but it is much better to be done with an adviser through the Live Help at the top, so we may help you in pronouncing it right and to provide you with important resources for new Muslims.
The first part of the testimony consists of the most important truth that God revealed to mankind: that there is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God. God states in the Holy Quran:
We sent all messengers before you with this revelation: There is no deity save Me, so worship Me alone. [Quran 21:25]
This conveys that all forms of worship, whether it be praying, fasting, invoking, seeking refuge in, and offering an animal as sacrifice, must be directed to God and to God alone. Directing any form of worship to other than God (whether it be an angel, a messenger, Jesus, Muhammad, a saint, an idol, the sun, the moon, a tree) is seen as a contradiction to the fundamental message of Islam, and it is an unforgivable sin unless it is repented from before one dies. All forms of worship must be directed to God only.
Worship means the performance of deeds and sayings that please God, things which He commanded or encouraged to be performed, either by direct textual proof or by analogy. Thus, worship is not restricted to the implementation of the five pillars of Islam, but also includes every aspect of life. Providing food for ones family, and saying something pleasant to cheer a person up are also considered acts of worship, if such is done with the intention of pleasing God. This means that, to be accepted, all acts of worship must be carried out sincerely for the Sake of God alone.
The second part of the testimony means that Prophet Muhammad is the servant and chosen messenger of God. This implies that one obeys and follows the commands of the Prophet. One must believe in what he has said, practice his teachings and avoid what he has forbidden. One must therefore worship God only according to his teaching alone, for all the teachings of the Prophet were in fact revelations and inspirations conveyed to him by God.
One must try to mould their lives and character and emulate the Prophet, as he was a living example for humans to follow. God says:
And indeed you are upon a high standard of moral character. [Quran 68:4]
God also said:
And in deed you have a good and upright example in the Messenger of God, for those who hope in the meeting of God and the Hereafter, and mentions God much. (Quran 33:21)
To truly adhere to the second part of the Shahada is to follow his example in all walks of life. God says:
Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love God, then follow me. [Quran 3:31]
And these two are for those who dont wanna belive in hadees..
One must try to mould their lives and character and emulate the Prophet, as he was a living example for humans to follow. God says:
And indeed you are upon a high standard of moral character. [Quran 68:4]
God also said:
And in deed you have a good and upright example in the Messenger of God, for those who hope in the meeting of God and the Hereafter, and mentions God much. (Quran 33:21)
To truly adhere to the second part of the Shahada is to follow his example in all walks of life. God says:
Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love God, then follow me. [Quran 3:31]
KingMamba
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The person you are arguing with does not know the meaning behind Hadiths. The Quran is complete and cannot be altered from its completion till the end of time. The Hadiths are not supposed to be used to usurp the Quran and in fact if any Hadith contradicts the Quran than the Hadith is not Sahih. It does not matter even if Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim narrated those particular hadiths if they are in contradiction of our holy book they are wrong.
Whats his point of view & whats yours ?
I'm too lazy to go through all of that !
I read like 8 pages, it is the usual bit with Zarvan issuing fatwas, Indians acting like know about Islam, and everyone else butchering the meaning of secularism.
Armstrong
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The way I see it :
Koran is God's word & the Hadith are the best exegesis (tafsir) of the Koran !
Sugarcane
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KingMamba
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muse
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It's really simple, use the word "Ilmaniyat" instead - see secular means reference to knowledge other than religious knowledge - Is there knowledge other than "religious or derived from religion"?? If yes, then Ilmaniyat is the way to go.
Recall when this whole Ladeen business came about -can't recall?? Anti-Soviet Jihad - So why wa it imported?? Because the case had to be made to justify the Mujahideen and to make clear that what they offered was the opposite of what the then govt of Afghanistan offered.
Sugarcane
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The way I see it :
Koran is God's word & the Hadith are the best exegesis (tafsir) of the Koran !
Hadith is Arabic word and the meaning of this is "Story/Tale" - So, whenever you hear a story you have two choices either believe it blindly or verify it. As these stories have direct impact on my belief i have full right to check validity. The yardstick God & Prophet (PBUH) has given to me for this is Quran. There are claim that all these Hadith are already verified and categorized and Shahih Hadiths are 100% genuine - I respect whoever did this great job but still i have my doubts. for example It is well known that the first book of Hadith is that of Bukhari, who was born more than 200 years after the death of Muhammad (PBUH). When Bukhari wrote his book of Hadiths, he used to visit the people whom he knew as sources. After verifying that his source is "truthful," and known as a man or woman of righteousness, Bukhari would ask, "Do you know a Hadith?" The person would answer, "Yes," then proceed to narrate the "Hadith" as follows: "I heard my father, may God bless his soul, say that he heard his older brother, may God bless his soul, say that he was sitting with his grandmother, may God bless her soul, and she told him that she was having dinner one day with her great uncle, may God bless his soul, when he stated that his maternal grandfather knew Imam xyz ibn xyz, who mentioned that his grandfather heard from his oldest uncle that he met the great companion of the Prophet xyz ibn xyz, and he told him that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, '-----', So you are relying to judgement of Bukhari
There are claims that there is complete science to check the authenticity but i don't know that science nor want to know because i have Book called Quran, if that story is not against it than maybe that is true and actually Prophet (PBUH)'s words but if i see that it's against what Quran says than whatever science someone used to check the authenticity and no matter that is categorized as MOOOOOOOOOST SAHIH story - for me that's BS.
muse
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No need to hide from this - it's the truth, best to face it, to examine it - so long as they do not support violence, let them be whatever floats their boat -- keep an eye on them, becvause all said and done, they have a close and cozy relationship with violence.
But how did it happen that these people came amongst us and spread their unique understanding???
Armstrong
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Thats why the litmus test for a hadith is :
(a) Does it contradict the Koran ?
(b) Does it conform to human reasoning ?
(c) Is it conflict to other Sahih Hadith which are in turn established through the (a) & (b) ?
Amongst other procedures !
So the science behind it is kinda sound !
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