‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Albatross]

Just my words and you can all disagree one thing this is a military forum not religious one so such discussion should not be encouraged...

secondly well even to me Islam is incomplete without hadees though indeed Quran is the basics of everything but hadees does enlighten us regarding so many things which are either not completely described in quran or not present in it at all like procedure of prayers...

Last thing what I feel is if a person only knows Kalma and just remembers his creator just beacue he loves Allah is enough to start with as then Allah will take care of him n will teach him everything he needs to know in ways we cant imagine or elaborate..

So just chill its all about niyat and is never about competition that whoz right and whoz wrong...One can become a good muslim by deriving the required knowledge from Quran only and one can become good muslim by following both Quran and hadees there are hard and fast rules..

 

[Sugarcane]

@Talon Ap Bhains Kay Aagay Been Baja Rahi Ho, He doesn't accept Quranic verses, I quoted "Sahih" Hadith, he is rejecting to those as well. These people will never agree to check the validity of Hadith in light of Quran because they will not be able confuse and divide people, they will lose the authority of deciding someone's faith, handing out death penalty as per wish and what not.

A group of people will appear among you whose prayer, fasting and deeds will make you think little of your own prayer, fasting and deeds. They will recite the Qur'an, but it wil not get past their throats, and they will pass through the deen like an arrow passes through game. You look at the arrowhead, and you see nothing, and you look at the shaft, and you see nothing, and you look at the flights, and you see nothing. And you are in doubt about the notch

 

[Patriots]

@Patriots he said you said everyone said....

If we keep poitnting fingers we will stay in Jahalat....Be a man and do the right thing

@Talon I know very well what I did ... I know what is Ilm & what the jahalat ... Such people who are not believing on Hadith ... Infact they doing jahalat ... Allah Jis Ko Chahey Hidayat Dayta hai ...

Say: "O you mankind! Now truth (i.e. the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad SAW), has come to you from your Lord. So whosoever receives guidance, he does so for the good of his own self, and whosoever goes astray, he does so to his own loss, and I am not (set) over you as a Wakîl (disposer of affairs to oblige you for guidance)." And (O Muhammad SAW), follow the revelation sent unto you, and be patient till Allâh gives judgement. And He is the Best of judges. (Surah Yunus: 108 – 109)

Abu Hurairah (May Allah Be Pleased With Him)narrated that Rasulullah( sal Allahu alaihi wasallam)said: “Everyone of my Ummah will enter Jannah except those who refuse”.
He(sal Allahu alaihi wasallam) was asked, “Who will refuse?”He (sal Allahu alaihi wasallam) said, “Whoever obeys me, shall enter Jannah, and whosoever disobeys me has refused (to enter Jannah)”.
[Al-Bukhari]

 

[Patriots]

He is spreading false concept? The concept that the Quran is the truth is false? What false concept?

ALL HE SAID - PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND

that the Quran is more superior and IF HADITH all were lost we can still practice ISLAM USING QURAN, do you think this is false?

If Hadith are destroyed because ALLAH did not say about protecting them HE said HE will protect the Quran until day of judgement...We can not say this is extended to the Hadith BECAUSE YOU AND I KNOW we have SOOOOOOOO many "new" hadith which have been newly introduced BY PEOPLE to get what they want and call it ISLAMIC!

Now the Quran is protected and will NOT CHANGE but the same is not for the hadith THAT is all @LoveIcon said NOW if you have difficulty in understanding ENGLISH we can write it in Urdu because ENGLISH is NOT your 1st language and it is understandable!! If you feel offended then I am SORRY but that is what your answers imply!

Verily, those who disbelieve in Allâh and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allâh and His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, "We believe in some but reject others," and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment. (Surah An-Nisa: 150 – 151)

 

[Dubious]

Now I suggest to any moderator to close this thread it has become a TAMASHA for the non muslims to see we can NEVER agree on even 1 point!

1 person says we can live without Hadith and he is called all sorts of things...

Another says Islam is not complete without Hadith...


Its like saying I can live without breakfast but the other is telling that breakfast is the most important meal and because one can live without breakfast he is not human!

 

[Patriots]

Last Sermon of Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam)

Praise to Allah:
“All praise is due to Allah, so we praise Him, and seek His pardon and we turn to Him. We seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and from the evil consequences of our deeds. Whom Allah guides aright there is none to lead him astray; and there is none to guide him aright whom Allah leads astray. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, the One, having no partner with Him. His is the sovereignty and to Him is due all praise. He grants life and causes death and is Powerful over everything. There is no God but Allah, the One; He fulfilled His promise and granted victory to His bondsman, and He alone routed the confederates (of the enemies of Islam).”

The criteria of Superiority:
“O’ People! Listen to my words, for I do not know whether we shall ever meet again and perform Hajj after this year. O’ Ye people! Allah says, O’ people We created you from one male and one female and made you into tribes and nations, so as to be known to one another. Verily in the sight of Allah, the most honored amongst you is the one who is most God-fearing. There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for the white over the black nor for the black over the white except in God-consciousness.”
“All mankind is the progeny of Adam and Adam was fashioned out of clay. Behold; every claim of privilege whether that of blood or property, is under my heels except that of the custody of the Ka’bah and supplying of water to the pilgrims, O’ people of Quraish, don’t appear (on the Day of Judgment) with the burden of this world around your necks, whereas other people may appear (before the Lord) with the rewards of the hereafter. In that case I shall avail you naught against Allah.”

Negating the days of Ignorance:
“Behold! All practice of the days of ignorance is now under my feet. The blood revenges of the days of ignorance are remitted. The first claim on blood I abolish is that of Ibn Rabiah bin Harith who was nursed in the tribe of Sa’ad and whom the Hudhayls killed. All interest and usurious dues accruing from the times of ignorance stand wiped out. And the first amount of interest that I remit is that which Abbas ibn Abd-al Muttalib had to receive. Verily it is remitted entirely.”
“O’ people! Verily your blood, your property and your honor are sacred and inviolable until you appear before your Lord, as the sacred inviolability of this day of yours, this month of yours and this very town (of yours). Verily you will soon meet your Lord and you will be held answerable for your actions.”

Relations
“O’ people! Verily you have got certain rights over your women and your women have certain rights over you. It is your right upon them to honor their conjugal rights, and not to commit acts of impropriety, which if they do, you are authorized by Allah to separate them from your beds and chastise them, but not severely, and if they refrain, then clothe and feed them properly.”
“Behold! It is not permissible for a woman to give anything from the wealth of her husband to anyone but with his consent.”
“Treat the women kindly, since they are your helpers and not in a position to manage their affairs themselves. Fear Allah concerning women, for verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their persons lawful unto you by words of Allah.”
“O’ people! Allah, the Mighty and Exalted, has ordained to everyone his due share (of inheritance). Hence there is no need (of special) testament for an heir (departing from the rules laid down by the Shari’ah).”
“The child belongs to the marriage-bed and the violator of wedlock shall be stoned. And Reckoning of their (deeds) rests with Allah.”
“He who attributes his ancestry to other than his father or claims his client ship to other than his master, the curse of Allah is upon him.”
“All debts must be repaid, all borrowed property must be returned, gifts should be reciprocated and a surety must make good the loss to the assured.”
“Beware! No one committing a crime is responsible for it but himself. Neither the child is responsible for the crime of his father, nor the father is responsible for the crime of his child.”
“Nothing of his brother is lawful for a Muslim except what he himself gives willingly. So do not wrong yourselves.”

Brotherhood
“O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you yourselves wear.”
“Take heed not to go astray after me and strike one another’s necks. He who (amongst you) has any trust with him, he must return it to its owner.”
“O’ people! Listen and obey, though a mangled Abyssinian slave is appointed your Amir, provided he executes (the Ordinance of) the Book of Allah among you.”

Closure of Prophecy Chain
“O’ people! No Prophet would be raised after me and no new Ummah (would be formed) after you.”
“Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the Book of Allah, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray.”

Important Instructions
“And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for it is transgression of (the proper bounds of) religion that brought destruction to many people before you.”
“Verily, the satan is disappointed at ever being worshipped in this land of yours, but he will be pleased by obedience in anything (short of worship that is) in matters you may be disposed to think insignificant, so beware of him in your matters of religion.”
“Behold! Worship your Lord; offer prayers five times a day; observe fast in the month of Ramadaan; pay readily the Zakat (poor due) on your property; and perform pilgrimage to the House of God and obey your rulers and you will be admitted to the Paradise of your Lord.”
“Let him that is present, convey it unto him who is absent, for many people to whom the message is conveyed may be more mindful of it than the audience.”
And if you were asked about me, what would you say?
They answered, “We bear witness that you have conveyed the trust (of religion) and discharged your ministry of Prophethood and looked to our welfare.“
Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) lifted his forefinger towards the sky and then pointing towards people said,
“O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it.“
@LoveIcon @Talon @haviZsultan
Anyone is there who wanna refuse this last sermon of Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam)

 

[Dubious]

@Patriots Apni angrezi theek farmaiyea!
@LoveIcon kahray hain kay BOTH SARI HADITH hain or HUMMAY confuse kerti hain kiyun kay INSAANoun nay kahin na kahin apni marzi kuch dala wa hai kahin na kahin....warna itnay sects nai hotay....is ki 2 waja hain

1) Molvi jo hotay hain wo samjh tay hai kay humay har cheez ka jawab atta hai and agar nai dain gay jawab tou humari baystee ho jai gi and izzat bhi kho jai gi isliyea apni marzi say jo marzi kah daytay hain!

2) koi hukum ko sacha status day nay kay liyea KITNI SARI HADITH logon nay likhi hain...

Yeh sub paysh kertay hoay @LoveIcon yeh kahray hain kay HADITH sari sahi nai hain agar koi maslah hai QURAN mein dekho KOI dari walay babay kay paas janay ki zaroorat nai hai! yeh peer fakeer, mullah, halwa molvi wagayra ki zaroorat nai hai kiyun kay yeh apni taraf say jo INKO sahi lagta hai kahtay hain...inko yeh parwa nai hai kay HAQ kiya cheez hai!

Agay suno before giving your statement! Yahan mostly Indian and Pakistanis hain agar kuch samajh nai atta poochlo warna aap mein aur woh yellow/ black dog walay movli mein koi difference nai hai!


= "What Color Was The Dog?" =
Once there was a community of Muslims who were small in number yet large in belief and strong in action. So much so that, the non-believers could not defeat them in battle even though they had the Muslims out numbered.

One day a young man from the enemies pretended to enter into Islam and he went to the big teacher [learned man] in one part of the city and listened to his teaching of the Quran. The subject happened to be on the chapter of the Quran called Al Kahaf [The Cave, - #18].

When the teacher completed his talk he offered a chance for the brothers present to ask some questions. When it came the turn of the non-believer, he asked the teacher the question:

“Sir, in the story of the 'sleepers' in the cave, there is mention of a dog. And I was wondering if I might inquire as to what color the dog might have been? I hope you don’t mind my asking, especially if it is something that maybe you don’t know the answer to.”

Immediately the teacher says to the young man, “That’s no problem at all, everyone should know that the dog was YELLOW.”

The young man said, “Are you sure? I mean, could it have been another color?”

“No.” replied the old teacher, “It was definitely YELLOW.” Once again the young man thanked him and when on his way.

The next night the young enemy acting as though we was still seeking knowledge went to the other side of town and sat in another gathering of knowledge and they too were discussing different things about verses in the Quran.

So when it came time for the teacher to give each person attending, the opportunity to ask a question, the imposter posing as a Muslim raised his hand and then asked the question, “In the chapter about the “Cave”, the sleepers are mentioned in different numbers but each time there is a reference to their dog as being counted along with them. Now I was wondering whether or not anyone of knowledge has ever made any reference to what the color the dog might have been?”

The teacher immediately said, “Yes! The dog in this story in the Quran was BLACK.”

The young non-believer man was pleased and continued, “Sir, are you quite certain that the color of the dog mentioned in the story was BLACK?”

“Young man,” he quickly replied, “I'll stake my reputation on that as a fact.”

“Thank you, sir." said the non-believer.

The next night the non-believer still posing as a Muslim went back to the first teacher and then when it came time for the questions and answers he raised his hand and asked, “Teacher, you have so much knowledge and I am only a small beginner, I was just wondering, could you maybe remind me about the answer to the question the other night about the color of the dog in the cave in Surah Al-Kahaf?” (Quran: Chapter 18).

The teacher said, “There is no doubt whatsoever amongst the great scholars of Islam on this question. The dog was YELLOW. And anyone who says other than this has no knowledge.”

With that the young man spoke up again and said, “Sir, what would you say if someone else said that he would stake his reputation of being a scholar in Islam on the fact that the dog is not yellow, but rather that the dog is most certainly BLACK?”

The teacher quickly replied, “Then his reputation is not that of a scholar but one of a fool.”

Now the next time the enemy went to the teacher who believed the dog was BLACK, he told the teacher that the teacher on the other side of town was calling him names and saying that he had no knowledge of Islam and that for sure that the dog was YELLOW.

The teacher became angry and shouted, “You tell him, that I said he is the one without knowledge. I am the one who graduated from the greatest of schools of Islam, while he is but a fool.”

The plan was working. Before long the community was divided into two groups. Each group was claiming that their teacher was the one with the correct answer. Fighting broke out in the streets and the Muslims began attacking each other all over the city. Everyone became involved to the extent that there was not a single person who was excluded from this terrible situation. Screaming, shouting, hitting and fighting were everywhere.

And then it happened. The kafr went back out to his people and told them, “Let us go to fight them now. You will now find them most easy to defeat.”

And that is exactly what they did.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...get-you-killed-pakistan-40.html#ixzz2JYjAU0vS

Last Sermon of Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam)

Praise to Allah:
“All praise is due to Allah, so we praise Him, and seek His pardon and we turn to Him. We seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and from the evil consequences of our deeds. Whom Allah guides aright there is none to lead him astray; and there is none to guide him aright whom Allah leads astray. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, the One, having no partner with Him. His is the sovereignty and to Him is due all praise. He grants life and causes death and is Powerful over everything. There is no God but Allah, the One; He fulfilled His promise and granted victory to His bondsman, and He alone routed the confederates (of the enemies of Islam).”

The criteria of Superiority:
“O’ People! Listen to my words, for I do not know whether we shall ever meet again and perform Hajj after this year. O’ Ye people! Allah says, O’ people We created you from one male and one female and made you into tribes and nations, so as to be known to one another. Verily in the sight of Allah, the most honored amongst you is the one who is most God-fearing. There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for the white over the black nor for the black over the white except in God-consciousness.”
“All mankind is the progeny of Adam and Adam was fashioned out of clay. Behold; every claim of privilege whether that of blood or property, is under my heels except that of the custody of the Ka’bah and supplying of water to the pilgrims, O’ people of Quraish, don’t appear (on the Day of Judgment) with the burden of this world around your necks, whereas other people may appear (before the Lord) with the rewards of the hereafter. In that case I shall avail you naught against Allah.”

Negating the days of Ignorance:
“Behold! All practice of the days of ignorance is now under my feet. The blood revenges of the days of ignorance are remitted. The first claim on blood I abolish is that of Ibn Rabiah bin Harith who was nursed in the tribe of Sa’ad and whom the Hudhayls killed. All interest and usurious dues accruing from the times of ignorance stand wiped out. And the first amount of interest that I remit is that which Abbas ibn Abd-al Muttalib had to receive. Verily it is remitted entirely.”
“O’ people! Verily your blood, your property and your honor are sacred and inviolable until you appear before your Lord, as the sacred inviolability of this day of yours, this month of yours and this very town (of yours). Verily you will soon meet your Lord and you will be held answerable for your actions.”

Relations
“O’ people! Verily you have got certain rights over your women and your women have certain rights over you. It is your right upon them to honor their conjugal rights, and not to commit acts of impropriety, which if they do, you are authorized by Allah to separate them from your beds and chastise them, but not severely, and if they refrain, then clothe and feed them properly.”
“Behold! It is not permissible for a woman to give anything from the wealth of her husband to anyone but with his consent.”
“Treat the women kindly, since they are your helpers and not in a position to manage their affairs themselves. Fear Allah concerning women, for verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their persons lawful unto you by words of Allah.”
“O’ people! Allah, the Mighty and Exalted, has ordained to everyone his due share (of inheritance). Hence there is no need (of special) testament for an heir (departing from the rules laid down by the Shari’ah).”
“The child belongs to the marriage-bed and the violator of wedlock shall be stoned. And Reckoning of their (deeds) rests with Allah.”
“He who attributes his ancestry to other than his father or claims his client ship to other than his master, the curse of Allah is upon him.”
“All debts must be repaid, all borrowed property must be returned, gifts should be reciprocated and a surety must make good the loss to the assured.”
“Beware! No one committing a crime is responsible for it but himself. Neither the child is responsible for the crime of his father, nor the father is responsible for the crime of his child.”
“Nothing of his brother is lawful for a Muslim except what he himself gives willingly. So do not wrong yourselves.”

Brotherhood
“O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you yourselves wear.”
“Take heed not to go astray after me and strike one another’s necks. He who (amongst you) has any trust with him, he must return it to its owner.”
“O’ people! Listen and obey, though a mangled Abyssinian slave is appointed your Amir, provided he executes (the Ordinance of) the Book of Allah among you.”

Closure of Prophecy Chain
“O’ people! No Prophet would be raised after me and no new Ummah (would be formed) after you.”
“Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the Book of Allah, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray.”

Important Instructions
“And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for it is transgression of (the proper bounds of) religion that brought destruction to many people before you.”
“Verily, the satan is disappointed at ever being worshipped in this land of yours, but he will be pleased by obedience in anything (short of worship that is) in matters you may be disposed to think insignificant, so beware of him in your matters of religion.”
“Behold! Worship your Lord; offer prayers five times a day; observe fast in the month of Ramadaan; pay readily the Zakat (poor due) on your property; and perform pilgrimage to the House of God and obey your rulers and you will be admitted to the Paradise of your Lord.”
“Let him that is present, convey it unto him who is absent, for many people to whom the message is conveyed may be more mindful of it than the audience.”
And if you were asked about me, what would you say?
They answered, “We bear witness that you have conveyed the trust (of religion) and discharged your ministry of Prophethood and looked to our welfare.“
Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) lifted his forefinger towards the sky and then pointing towards people said,
“O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it.“
@LoveIcon @Talon @haviZsultan
Anyone is there who wanna refuse this last sermon of Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam)

NO ONE said PROPHET is wrong! Why are you dragging the prophet to your lack of understanding?

ALL we are saying is the quran said it is simple to understand, then WHY THE HECK DON'T you go to the QURAN 1st BUT INSTEAD JUMP into a hadith?

Is that easier to digest?

 

[Patriots]

AGAIN accusations? ALL HE SAID was ALL HADITH ARE NOT PURE...When you want to take an example from a HADITH which 1 do you go to? EACH sect says their hadith is AUTHENTIC...So when someone converts to Islam if every sect gives him THEIR hadith book, THE NEW MUSLIM will be confused and convert to any other religion....

He will say I read in the Quran BUT now hanafi says this, Shafii says this, Maliki says this Hanbali says that, sufi say this, deobandi say this, ahle-hadith says that, Wahabi says this, salafi says that....WHICH ONE SHOULD I FOLLOW?

Quran said



This was the promise for the QURAN!

How does it contradict Islam?

@Talon Everybody accepts that all Ahadith are not pure & right ... But point is this that why are not you believe on those Ahadith which are Sahih & Hasan..??? Kindly don't refuse all Ahadith ..

Hadith Source referred to in the Quran:

Proof 1:
Allah Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنْتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَنْ يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّنْ يَنْقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ

“And We did not prescribe the Qiblah which you used to observe except to know the one who follows the Messenger as distinct from the one who turns on his heels.” (2:143)

We know that initially during the stay at Makkah and during first one and a half years at Medina the Muslims used to pray facing Baitul Maqdas (i.e. Jerusalem) and later it was ordained to pray facing the Ka’ba as categorically told in Quran 2:144. But once this order of change was given the Jews and the hypocrites at Medina objected to the idea. This verse gives a response to the objection. The point of interest for us here is that the appointment of the previous Qibla has been attributed to Allah himself even though it has never been mentioned in the Quran. Obviously it was Holy Prophet (PBUH) who used to teach the people to face Baitul Maqdas prior to the change without referring to Quran yet we find the same to be attributed to Allah. The verse reads:

“We did not prescribe the Qiblah …” and not,
“The Prophet did not prescribe the Qiblah …”

This is solid evidence that the earlier order was given by the Holy Prophet (PBUH) on the authority of a revelation which did not form a part of the Quran. This is what Hadith is, only another kind of revelation!

Proof 2:

أُحِلَّ لَكُمْ لَيْلَةَ الصِّيَامِ الرَّفَثُ إِلَى نِسَائِكُمْ هُنَّ لِبَاسٌ لَكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لِبَاسٌ لَهُنَّ عَلِمَ اللَّهُ أَنَّكُمْ كُنْتُمْ تَخْتَانُونَ أَنْفُسَكُمْ فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَعَفَا عَنْكُمْ فَالْآَنَ بَاشِرُوهُنَّ وَابْتَغُوا مَا كَتَبَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ وَكُلُوا وَاشْرَبُوا حَتَّى يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكُمُ الْخَيْطُ الْأَبْيَضُ مِنَ الْخَيْطِ الْأَسْوَدِ مِنَ الْفَجْرِ ثُمَّ أَتِمُّوا الصِّيَامَ إِلَى اللَّيْلِ

“It is made lawful for you, in the nights of fasts, to have sex with your women. They are apparel for you, and you are apparel for them. Allah knows that you have been betraying yourselves, so He relented towards you and pardoned you. So now you can have sexual intimacy with them and seek what Allah has destined for you and eat and drink until the white thread of the dawn becomes distinct from the black thread; then complete the fast up to the night.” (2:187)

1- The words ‘relented towards you and pardoned you’ show that prior to the revelation of this verse having sexual intimacy with ones wife during the nights of Ramadan was a sin.
2- And the words ‘now you can have sexual intimacy with them’ show that with the revelation of this verse alone has it become lawful.

All these points imply that the earlier prohibition was indeed from Allah yet we do not find that in the Quran. Who was then the authority to prohibit it before this command if not the Holy Prophet (PBUH)? If he was the one, and surely he was, then is it not an evident proof in favor of Hadith, the words of the Prophet, as a source of Law?

Proof 3:

We read in the Holy Quran:

مَا قَطَعْتُمْ مِنْ لِينَةٍ أَوْ تَرَكْتُمُوهَا قَائِمَةً عَلَى أُصُولِهَا فَبِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَلِيُخْزِيَ الْفَاسِقِينَ

“Whatever palm-trees you have cut down, or have left them standing on their roots, it was with Allah’s permission, and so that He might disgrace the transgressors.” (59:5)

The verse was revealed about an event during the siege of the treacherous Banu Nadair, a Jewish tribe of Medina. It is clearly mentioned that Muslims cut down trees with Allah’s permission. Where is the leave to cut down trees during a battle given in the Quran? How was the leave of Allah, not found in the Quran, conveyed if not through a revelation that does not form a part of the Quran? Obviously the only reasonable answer is that Allah conveyed the leave through ‘un-recited revelation’ and it was Holy Prophet (PBUH) who gave the command to cut down trees in his words during the siege. Such a command given by the Prophet (PBUH) is what is knows as Hadith. And the companions who carried out the command followed Hadith knowing fully that it was from Allah.

There are more examples on these lines.

Obeying the Prophet means obeying Sunnah/Hadith:

There are 11 verses in the Holy Quran which have the words; ‘Obey Allah and [His] Messenger’
Allah Almighty says:

وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

“Obey Allah and the Messenger, so that you may be blessed.” (3:132)

وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ

“And obey Allah and His Messenger, if you are believers.” (8:1)

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَلَا تُبْطِلُوا أَعْمَالَكُمْ

“O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and do not nullify your deeds.” (47:33)

Other verses are 4:59, 5:92, 8:20, 8:46, 24:54, 58:13 and 64:12.
Every single verse of the Holy Quran which speaks of the ‘Obedience to Allah’ without an exception mentions ‘Obedience to the Messenger’ as well.
Why is the Obedience to the Messenger mentioned separately if it has no implication other than obeying Allah’s commands in the Quran?

Same is true for all the verses in which there is a warning for not being obedient to Allah.

وَمَنْ يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَتَعَدَّ حُدُودَهُ يُدْخِلْهُ نَارًا خَالِدًا فِيهَا وَلَهُ عَذَابٌ مُهِينٌ

“Whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger and transgresses the limits set by Him, He shall admit him to the Fire, where he will remain forever. For him there is a humiliating punishment.” (Quran 4:14)

Other verses are 8:13, 9:63, 33:36 and 72:23.

Thus we find that in all the verses that deal with the positive and negative aspects of obedience mention ‘Obedience to the Messenger (PBUH)’ along with ‘Obedience to Allah’ separately.
There is not a single verse in the Holy Quran wherein ‘Obedience to Allah’ is mentioned without that of the Messenger. On the other hand there are certain verses in which only ‘Obedience to the Messenger’ has been mentioned. Same is the case with the verses warning about disobedience. Following are a couple of examples:

وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآَتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

“Establish Salah and pay Zakah and obey the messenger, so that you may be favored with mercy.” (Quran 24:56)

يَوْمَئِذٍ يَوَدُّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَعَصَوُا الرَّسُولَ لَوْ تُسَوَّى بِهِمُ الْأَرْضُ وَلَا يَكْتُمُونَ اللَّهَ حَدِيثًا

“On that Day, those who have disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger shall wish that the earth were leveled with them. They shall not (be able to) conceal anything from Allah.” (4:42)

Also see 4:115 & 24:54.

The reason for attaching this much importance to the obedience to the Messenger (PBUH) is that obedience to Allah is simply not possible without following the Prophet (PBUH) i.e. it is not possible to follow Quran without Hadith. And as to the verses that mention only ‘Obedience to the Messenger’ or warn against disobedience to him, it is because whatever the Messenger (PBUH) says is from Allah and obedience to him is in reality obedience to Allah. Quran itself says:

مَنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ

“Whoever obeys the Messenger obeys Allah” (4:80)

The summary is that Obedience to the Messenger, so often mentioned separately, always mentioned along with Obedience to Allah and sometimes mentioned alone as well ,establishes the fact that the words and deeds of the Prophet (PBUH) (i.e. Hadith) are also a source of guidance and are required to be followed along with the Holy Quran. Had it only been about following the Quran there was no need to add ‘Obedience to the Messenger’ after ‘Obedience to Allah’ in all these instances. Verily the Book of Allah is free from pointless verbosity!

Jibra’il and the Holy Prophet (PBUH); a comparison:
Quran is the Last and Final revelation of Almighty Allah to mankind. It came through Jibrail (Archangel Gabriel) first to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and then through him to the whole world.
The task of Jibra’il (AS) was to simply bring down the words of Allah (i.e. Quran) and recite them to the Prophet (PBUH) while this alone was not the task of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). He was not only to recite the verses but also to teach the Book of Allah. We read in the Quran:

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولًا مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آَيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ

“Allah has surely conferred favor on the believers when He raised in their midst a messenger from among themselves who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom.” (3:164)

The verse implies that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) has the final word in interpretation of the Book [i.e. Quran] as he has come to teach the Book and not merely to recite its verses.
If the task of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) was similar to that of Angel Jibra’il why is it that Allah so often mentions the Obedience to the Prophet along with Obedience to Himself while there is no injunction about Obedience to Jibrail?
Had the Prophet’s (PBUH) task been the same as that of Jibra’il (AS) there would have been no mention of obedience to him just as there is no mention of obedience to Jibr’ail.
This is a strong notion in support of Hadith along with Quran as a source of Law in the House of Islam!
May ALLAH make us have faith in all the articles and fundamentals of His Deen!

 

[somebozo]

Jamatio sudhar jao and bas bhe karo ab!

 

[Patriots]

AGAIN accusations? ALL HE SAID was ALL HADITH ARE NOT PURE...When you want to take an example from a HADITH which 1 do you go to? EACH sect says their hadith is AUTHENTIC...So when someone converts to Islam if every sect gives him THEIR hadith book, THE NEW MUSLIM will be confused and convert to any other religion....

He will say I read in the Quran BUT now hanafi says this, Shafii says this, Maliki says this Hanbali says that, sufi say this, deobandi say this, ahle-hadith says that, Wahabi says this, salafi says that....WHICH ONE SHOULD I FOLLOW?

Quran said



This was the promise for the QURAN!

How does it contradict Islam?

Don't follow to anyone sect .... Who are saying to you this ... Just follow Quran & Sunnah ... Sunnah proved from Sahih Hadith ... Sahih Hadith are already verified ... Simple

 

[Patriots]

@Zarvan there you go again

NO ONE IS SAYING WE DO NOT WANT TO FOLLOW HADITH we are saying FOLLOW THE QURAN....

Hadith is only used as a guideline NOT LIKE A THE PERFECT ANSWER!

READ @LoveIcon again you did not UNDERSTAND 1 WORD HE SAID!

You think without HADITH THERE IS NO ISLAM....When ISLAM IS FROM QURAN!

In quran it says Islam is easy yet you mankind make it hard!

TAKE A NEW MUSLIM and see how confused he/she gets in seconds because ALL of you sects have produced your own books!

There is a difference from REJECTING HADITH completely AND from not wanting to follow 1 blindly but wanting to check it with the QURAN


When you have learnt this difference then come online to chat! THANK YOU

I think you didn't read properly which @Zarvan quote
You had to read that one because this can help to remove you confusion ..

Now I suggest to any moderator to close this thread it has become a TAMASHA for the non muslims to see we can NEVER agree on even 1 point!

1 person says we can live without Hadith and he is called all sorts of things...

Another says Islam is not complete without Hadith...


Its like saying I can live without breakfast but the other is telling that breakfast is the most important meal!


@Zarvan read ANYONE OF MY POST i have clearly answered you!

Hahahahaha you rightly said ... Now tell me yourself that breakfast isn't important..????

 

[Patriots]

@Zarvan you probably have not understood my posts then!

Doctor se poocho important hai ya nahi

This thread has becoming a tableeghi jamat e-convention!

Unfortunately I don't belong to Tableeghi Jamat

 

[Patriots]

@Talon Ap Bhains Kay Aagay Been Baja Rahi Ho, He doesn't accept Quranic verses, I quoted "Sahih" Hadith, he is rejecting to those as well. These people will never agree to check the validity of Hadith in light of Quran because they will not be able confuse and divide people, they will lose the authority of deciding someone's faith, handing out death penalty as per wish and what not.

A group of people will appear among you whose prayer, fasting and deeds will make you think little of your own prayer, fasting and deeds. They will recite the Qur'an, but it wil not get past their throats, and they will pass through the deen like an arrow passes through game. You look at the arrowhead, and you see nothing, and you look at the shaft, and you see nothing, and you look at the flights, and you see nothing. And you are in doubt about the notch

یہ آیت منکرین حدیث پر بہت بہتر طور پر ثابت ہوتی ہے ۔۔۔ کیوںکہ جو اسلام کے پورے ایک نظام کو گرانے پر مصر ہیں ۔۔۔ اگر آپ قرآن کی آیات پر ایمان رکھتے ہوتو میری اس پوسٹ پر تبصرہ کر لو جو میں نے قرآن پاک سے احادیث کا اثبات ثابت کیا ہے ۔۔

 

[Patriots]

@Patriots Apni angrezi theek farmaiyea!

English k liye aap mujhay tution day dain ... Because ye meri madri zuban nahi hai ... I don't care k koi meri english ko accha samjhay ya bura ..

NO ONE said PROPHET is wrong! Why are you dragging the prophet to your lack of understanding?

ALL we are saying is the quran said it is simple to understand, then WHY THE HECK DON'T you go to the QURAN 1st BUT INSTEAD JUMP into a hadith?

Is that easier to digest?

I just meant that if you do agree with last sermon of Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam) then from where it came..??? Is it mention in Quran..??? Allah revealed to Quran for human betterment and sent to Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alehi Wa Sallam) as well for same purpose then why we could reject his sayings & actions which are proved by Sahih Ahadith ..

Jamatio sudhar jao and bas bhe karo ab!

@Talon your like minded who calls to muslims with bad names !!!!

 

[Sugarcane]

یہ آیت منکرین حدیث پر بہت بہتر طور پر ثابت ہوتی ہے ۔۔۔ کیوںکہ جو اسلام کے پورے ایک نظام کو گرانے پر مصر ہیں ۔۔۔ اگر آپ قرآن کی آیات پر ایمان رکھتے ہوتو میری اس پوسٹ پر تبصرہ کر لو جو میں نے قرآن پاک سے احادیث کا اثبات ثابت کیا ہے ۔۔

I believe on Qur^an more than you - It's you who are hell bent to prove that Qur^an is incomplete and difficult (which infect is denial of Qur^an). It's you who believe more on Haith(story/tale) and it's you who are saying that believe all stories without checking it's true or not. It's you guys who disrespect Prophet (PBUH) by associating stories (Hadith) which are against the guidance of Qur^an as if Prophet (PBUH) himself was not following Qur^an. It's you who don't know that Prophet(PBUH) himself was following Religion of Abraham and Prayer, Fasting & Zakat all existed before Prophet (PBUH), He only restored those into original form - It's you who disrespect Prophet (PBUH) and his companions by proving them cruel with your invented Hadith. It's you who disrespect Prophet (PBUH) by saying him illiterate but if your read Qur^an carefully than you will know that he use to write Qur^an. If you want guidance from Quran than you have to believe in Quran when it says "It's easy & complete", you will get guidance for every matter of your life. But how can you get any guidance from Quran when you already believe that it's not understandable and not complete. But yeah stories written after 200 years when 8 generations was already dead are more credible than Quran. And i have no right to Question even if i find them against the teaching of God and Prophet (PBUH). Sorry dear, I am not buying your stories & religion which is cruel & blood thirsty and against humanity. I am happy with Book of God which my Prophet (PBUH) gave - call me Kharaji, Kafar and handout me death penalty, I don't care.
@Talon - I already told you, You are wasting your time.

@ Topic - In Pakistan secularism is taken as atheism and uneducated & extremist mullahs will be up against you because they feel "their religion" threatened, However secularism is very much part of Islam but with little change, In secularism you say that god/gods exist or not shouldn't influence the decision of state and you should treat everyone equal and provide justice. Islam says that God exists and you will be questioned on day judgement for your deeds. And doing impartial justice & treating everyone equal is must in Islam (When i say Islam it's Islam not Mullahism), So - i don't think there is any major conflict between secularism & Islam because state can deliver intended results even under Islamic ideology. Mullahism can't deliver those results, that's why mullahs don't want to even think about better thing. Leave secularism, they even don't want people to think about Islam - this thread itself is a proof.