‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Zarvan]

I exposed the hypocrisy in your arguments through my post #363.

Their was no hypocrisy if you don't got the point than get knowledge to understand things before coming and talking **** which you are really good at

 

[acid rain]

are you here to troll or understand, shariah to some may be a system but in general term, it mean islamic laws from my readings and while you may put the label secular on canada, to me from islamic laws perspective, it follows the criteria of a islamic states, though some will disagree on the nitty gritty as I have mentioned earlier brother, our state right now provides a system with accessible health care(similar to 2nd caliphate), childcare(similar to rudimentary system in 2nd caliphate), right to liberty, practise to belief, and a proper taxation system(zakat) security and a proper comprehensive justice system(as mandated in islamic system). These point here are some of the things that islamic states should have and canada has those criteria though while its not perfect, we do suffer from social problems and toxic environmental pollution we are causing to this beautiful earth, we have legislations coming up to regulate that hopefully.

LOL, dont think Canada got inspired by Islam or shariah, you could have done better by giving examples of a Muslim state or a caliphate instead of a western democracy.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Their was no hypocrisy if you don't got the point than get knowledge to understand things before coming and talking **** which you are really good at

rather you failed to see or refuse to accept the hypocrisy in your argument that " secular system may get influences of majority beliefs thus it's bad so going for a system which is based on 100% majority beliefs is ideal.here it is not just majority influence but 100% majority religious beliefs. if this is not hypocrisy then I don't know what is ????

 

[liontk]

@Agnostic_Indian
Well these criteria that the secular socities have are found in the first 4 caliphates systems though at that time they were rudimentary. The sad thing is that the countries with the label islam are less islamic as far as by what our prophets teachings goes sadly. Our prophet established laws and gave the societie a moral compass which it severly lacked in that era. It was so terrible that the bedouin arabs would bury their daughters upon birth, i know its hard to belief but it was that extreme. Overtime muslim ruler established a system atleast the first 4 caliphates that was democratic in nature as they were picked by the people. So the democracy while might be new to you, it was certainly not new to arabic peninsula and the monarchic system that started after be the 4 caliphate was not the perfect representation of islamic state and had its flaws like all states do as some might quote. Any way i am getting on rant again oh boy!!!, point being right now west specifically canada atleast is the best example in my mind though there might be some personal bias to it. My tip go by criteria not by what people say , if somebody claims they are something, you must first judge it based on criteria and thats what i personally go by though some islamic adherents might go by different criteria.

 

[Zarvan]

rather if you failed to see or refuse to accept the hypocrisy in your argument that " secular system may get influences of majority beliefs thus it's bad so going for a system which is based on 100% majority beliefs is ideal.here it is not just majority influence but 100% majority religious beliefs. if this is not hypocrisy then I don't know what is ????

You just proved yourself ............... when on earth I said that is bad I said they can't be anything secular you will have influence of the ideology of majority Sir their is no such thing as secular Sir and Islam is a complete system which we have to implement Sir first understand something before calling some one some thing other wise if I get started I am really good at answering back

 

[Spring Onion]

are you here to troll or understand, shariah to some may be a system but in general term, it mean islamic laws from my readings and while you may put the label secular on canada, to me from islamic laws perspective, it follows the criteria of a islamic states, though some will disagree on the nitty gritty as I have mentioned earlier brother, our state right now provides a system with accessible health care(similar to 2nd caliphate), childcare(similar to rudimentary system in 2nd caliphate), right to liberty, practise to belief, and a proper taxation system(zakat) security and a proper comprehensive justice system(as mandated in islamic system). These point here are some of the things that islamic states should have and canada has those criteria though while its not perfect, we do suffer from social problems and toxic environmental pollution we are causing to this beautiful earth, we have legislations coming up to regulate that hopefully.

Nicely said i think the Indian posters do not want to understand difference between system dealing with social welfare of the society and system of belief as was practice during caliphate period. they had a thorough system for taxtion/ food security/ health social security nets and even defence system during 3rd caliphate period.

one can differ with strict faith belief system but not with this social security ones in Islam

 

[liontk]

LOL, dont think Canada got inspired by Islam or shariah, you could have done better by giving examples of a Muslim state or a caliphate instead of a western democracy.

@acid rain, I did highlight the caliphate as a source but I think my country is closer to this system in this era, and it does not matter where inspiration comes from, as canada fits the criteria and highlighted the verse from quran that jews, muslims,christians and sabians based on their deeds will go to heaven. Also based on my reading somebody does not need to have a label, for all they could believe in god and do good deeds throughout their lives and pass the test on judgement day.

 

[Spring Onion]

LOL, dont think Canada got inspired by Islam or shariah, you could have done better by giving examples of a Muslim state or a caliphate instead of a western democracy.

Muslim states are becuase there are majority of Muslims NOT because they have a full Islamic system which by the way if implemented many of the issues will be resolved.

But the fact again is that those secular countries are not as secular neither those Muslim countries are as Islamic as these should be in terms of laws

 

[LiberalAtheist]

So, the "Secularism" is created by God?

No secularism was also created by man. First coined by Briton George Jacob Holyoake.

 

[my2cents]

Sir sorry for first 2/3 is not atheist still majority vast majority believes in GOD Sir still Islam is growing and Islam never said all will accept the truth accepting truth and leaving evils is not an easy thing Sir first know what Islam have said before talking crap again and again Sir and in yes either you are with Islam or you are with kufr their is no grey area

According to you, what is happening in your country is moving towards Islam or going backward?? This will make you pause and see the faults in your system. Just parroting the same line again and again will not make people follow Islam. It will alienate the very people you want to endear to Islam.

 

[Zarvan]

According to you, what is happening in your country is moving towards Islam or going backward?? This will make you pause and see the faults in your system. Just parroting the same line again and again will not make people follow Islam. It will alienate the very people you want to endear to Islam.

Sir Islam is a complete system and we will implement it and what is happening in Pakistan is the result of disaster policies of our government and also becoming ally of USA and other forces which have damaged Pakistan a lot

 

[acid rain]

LOL, one poster is comparing shariah with Canada while the other is comparing it with taliban under Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.
One poster says follow Koran while the other says follow Hadith or the interpretation of quotes.
Some posters are for secularism while others are for an Islamic state.

You guys need to sort it out amongst yourselves, choose whatever way you want to rule yourselves but stop interfering in secular state beliefs and forego of plans to forcefully convert people or bring Islam to secular states and non believers.

and, for gods sake stop genocidingor forcefully convert non Muslims who are stuck in majority Muslim countries. Have some pity on your other sects too like Shias, Ahmedis, Hazaras etc and stop killing them.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

You just proved yourself ............... when on earth I said that is bad I said they can't be anything secular you will have influence of the ideology of majority Sir their is no such thing as secular Sir and Islam is a complete system which we have to implement Sir first understand something before calling some one some thing other wise if I get started I am really good at answering back

fist of all please avoid making " Islam is complete system " sentence on every post you make so that we can debate on points.

ok. let's try again..

you says there can't be a 100% secular system(so naturally 100% secular must be good since your concern is it might get influenced my majority beliefs and make it less than 100%) because it get influenced by majorities beliefs.. right ?

in other words secularism = perfection.
majoritie's belief makes an influence = less perfect secular system. so majority influence is a bad thing to have a in a perfectly neutral system( in theoretically)..right ?


or if you are arguing influence of majoritie's religious belief in state matters/ law is a good thing then what is the problem if secularism is influenced by majoritie's beliefs ? how does it make secularism bad if a influence is good ? so as much as a majority can influence a secular system that much better it is ? is that you believe ?


you have to decided first..which is good ?

majority religion influencing state laws as much as it can( and thus effectively bringing a minority under the rule of majority religions rule and beliefs.


or where state laws don't force other religion's law/ belief system on a citizen who doesn't follow or believe in that particular religion ?

hope this time you understand and answer directly to my questions..I will take nothing other than direct answers and explanations, (edit) any thing other than that will be considered as your incapability to support your arguments logically.

 

[Zarvan]

LOL, one poster is comparing shariah with Canada while the other is comparing it with taliban under Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.
One poster says follow Koran while the other says follow Hadith or the interpretation of quotes.
Some posters are for secularism while others are for an Islamic state.

You guys need to sort it out amongst yourselves, choose whatever way you want to rule yourselves but stop interfering in secular state beliefs and forego of plans to forcefully convert people or bring Islam to secular states and non believers.

and, for gods sake stop genocidingor forcefully convert non Muslims who are stuck in majority Muslim countries. Have some pity on your other sects too like Shias, Ahmedis, Hazaras etc and stop killing them.

We know what is Islam Sir and what we have to follow you go and sort out your problems the shuuders the Maoists and the poverty rapes and several other problems

fist of all please avoid making " Islam is complete system " sentence on every post you make so that we can debate on points.

ok. let's try again..

you says there can't be a 100% secular system(so naturally 100% secular must be good since your concern is it might get influenced my majority beliefs and make it less than 100%) because it get influenced by majorities beliefs.. right ?

in other words secularism = perfection.
majoritie's belief makes an influence = less perfect secular system. so majority influence is a bad thing to have a in a perfectly neutral system( in theoretically)..right ?


or if you are arguing influence of majoritie's religious belief in state matters/ law is a good thing then what is the problem if secularism is influenced by majoritie's beliefs ? how does it make secularism bad if a influence is good ? so as much as a majority can influence a secular system that much better it is ? is that you believe ?


you have to decided first..which is good ?

majority religion influencing state laws as much as it can( and thus effectively bringing a minority under the rule of majority religions rule and beliefs.


or a state laws don't force other religions law/ belief system on a citizen who doesn't follow or believe in that religion ?

hope this time you understand and answer directly to my questions..I will take nothing other than direct answers and explanations as your incapability to support your arguments logically.

Secularism is human law first secondly we have our own system and we don't need the secularism thing Sir we have our own system that is Islam and we will implement it for us anything other than law of Islam is kufr and kufr is evil

 

[acid rain]

We know what is Islam Sir and what we have to follow you go and sort out your problems the shuuders the Maoists and the poverty rapes and several other problems


Secularism is human law first secondly we have our own system and we don't need the secularism thing Sir we have our own system that is Islam and we will implement it for us anything other than law of Islam is kufr and kufr is evil

Though we dont know what is Islam but we can feel the effects of what Islam brings to the world and that is death, destruction and extremism.
Many are victims of this including us, millions of Hindus have been killed in the name of Islam over the years.

At least in the modern age strive to learn from others in being better human beings and having regard for alternative thought or religions and not strive to go back to the caves both in mentality and actions.