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ADB Reports Pakistan's Middle Class Larger Than India's

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Our Moderators and admin should see that it is not just about issues they don't like, but that it seems we have a organized swarm whose entire ideology is to derail -- it seems some of the indian posters were enraged by the ADB information -- just imagine being enraged by a report from a bank - then a deluge of a google pieces that suggest topics other than what the thread is about - not even an attempt to understand or deconstruct the information or any attempt ot present a cleareer picturer, instead just plain anger - just imagine what kind of ideas animate these members -- and does the forum need such people? Is there a shortage of fourm members that among the 6 billion of the earth, we must accept the likes of these??
 
I would like to see more of posotive projection of Indian economy and methods taken to improve it, IE Infrastructure, Education etc etc.
The guy RH could have been washed out as nonsense if he had not backed his arguement without any external reports or analysis.
I agree the reports may not be accurate, but to mould their findings as per the reality can be done only if we present a clearer picture to them.
There is no denying that still India has a large population of illiterate and poor people. Some without proper roof or health.At the same time mega cities are cropping up, and quite ashamedly these structures are being built on the land being forcefully taken from the poor people by the corrupt politicians in nexus with the builders.
Ok, this guy or any one else may be raising points to make fun of us, but isn't he getting the material from our own movies. He is merely writing what is being presented to the world by these so called surveys.
I was in India and there were many things I could not fight against corruption in Politics and Politicians. I had to leave as a highly dis enchanted person. But my salvos against these BC/Bs politicians will continue, they are the ones who have slowed progress.
This 7-8% growth is due to the hard work of Indians themselves, with out any help from govt.
Another factor which is impeding growth is dis honesty, we are reluctant to declare our earnings and assets, never file the income tax properly. As a result there is unequel distribution of wealth.
 
Bhim


First of all no one, absolutely no one, has prevented any person from posting positives about the Indian economy.

Secondly Positives and negatives are part of the same picture, it allows us to see the complexirty of the picture --

And theirdly, Mr. Haq has repeatedly said that these are "snap shots", that is to say, a reflection of a single issue in time and space.

What is all this anger about with you guys? What exacgtly are you angry about? It had better not be that this anger is about the substance of the report - because that would tell me that we have people who are not just immature but who cannot fly straight even if they wanted to -- just because a report is positive about Pakistan does not mean it's negative about India, and if does mean it's negative about india, deal with it by reason and argument so that people understand the compexity of the picture -- just so long as it is not, as it appears, that the very notion of a positive for Pakistan can send some forum members in a tizzy. Homey don't play that!
 
The title is self made by Author and is rubbish it should say aboubt percentage and not about absolute figures.

Can the author point out where is Shaukat Aziz now and why ? Economic data during Musharafs regime was mystery.
 
@Muse, I am not angry, rather amused.LOL
 
Bhim

Stay amused, it's better than being angry at a report from a bank.:cheers:
 
@Muse I asked questions on those figures and he never replied. Just posting figures means nothing if that cannot be linked to ground facts. I am willing to discuss more but answer the question first.
 
Rabbit

HAs anybody prevented you from seeking answers to the questions you posted?

Has anybody prevented you from posting your own answers?

If you had or if any indian had a problem with the ADB report, you could have done research on the report and highlighted issues which we all should have considered - instead you chose to play victim.

WHY?

It is not too late, do research on the ADB report, pose your questions, issues with methodology, from the report -- BUT, if you find that the report is more or less unassailable, then come out and say so.

Being a part of the forum, does not mean that you have to agree with everything, but it does mean that you take ownbership, take responsibility - you can help everybody understand the issues better.

Now if you also take exception to percentages - please also explain why this is legitimate because I am not sure why percentages should be seen as illegitimate - i understand that percentages in comparison with total numbers reflect different things.
 
Muse I already did my research, there is no database in India which has correct information about Income in India. Most of Indians do not report their Income correctly, I gave a very detailed list you can look back, I am using phone and it is difficult to find link. Same thing he did with his Naxal thread, he said more then 50% are in Naxal's control, I said pick a state a prove district by district. So in short just because some reports writes trash does not mean it is sufficient to prove your point unless you can map it to data on ground.
 
there is no database in India which has correct information about Income in India. Most of Indians do not report their Income correctly
,

So why get angry at Mr. Haq or at the ADB report??

So in short just because some reports writes trash does not mean it is sufficient to prove your point unless you can map it to data on ground
.

Yaar, why is it such a big deal? If the same ADB provides a report that India is doing well economically, you are all for it - but if the report suggests Pakistani middle class percentage out of total population, you get into a tizzy?

Think man, think more, and for God, for Bhagwan, for Pir for Paighambar, feel less.
 
40% of people in pakistan are middle class. That means 70million people.

Good job pakistan. Hope in near future pakistan will not ask for AID from any other countries and be self sufficient.
 
Mr. Muse, i haven't got answer to my post no. 120. the same ADB report is saying by 2010 india will have 31bn plus middle class. i think people are very selective in their approach.
 
@Muse
I am not angry, I am putting my POV, don't we do the same on every report? If we are not suppose to put or POV then what are we going to discuss?
That data is wrong and so the analysis based on data. I gave very detailed reason for the same.
 
I was searching for pakistan income here is what I got.

High earning middle class only 2.5pc of population in Pakistan

By Mansoor Ahmad

LAHORE: Income disparities in India are more pronounced than Pakistan but it has developed a consumer base of 130 million strong upper middle class earners between $10,000 to $50,000 a year that Pakistan lacks proportionate to its population.

Economic experts point out that the presence of such a strong upper middle class comprising around 11 per cent of its population is the main reason for its robust economy. They pointed out that in contrast such high earning middle class is limited to hardly two million in Pakistan, which accounts for less than 2.5 per cent of its population.

They said that effective middle class comprising industry professionals, scientists, doctors, engineers play a pivotal role in the growth of a country. They said those earning over $10,000 a year in developing nations enjoy the same living standards as enjoyed by a person earning $25,000 in developed country. They said the notion that those living above poverty level are the real middle class is not true because they have no voice in the developing societies.

Senior economist Naveed Anwar Khan said that the number of people earning above $10,000 a year has grown in Pakistan but the two million workforce employed by the India IT industry alone earn more than this amount. He said the resource distribution in recent years have been fairer in India for the skilled and professional workers. It would have been in Pakistan had we prepared the skilled human resource, he added.

He said a middle class in relative terms can be defined, as the middle income range of each country; The problem with this approach, he added is that each country has a different median income, so the definition of what is middle class shifts from place to place. A more prudent method he added is to use a fixed income band for all countries. He said this is more representative method because this constitutes empowered segment of society in every country.

Market analyst Yunus Kamran FCA said in India the local and international banks are making consumer credit increasingly available to middle-class borrowers. This is spurring a new wave of consumer spending unprecedented in India’s history. Whereas in Pakistan the commercial banks are pulling out of consumer finance as it carries high risk due to limited incomes of the middle class.

He said Indians are optimistic that their upper middle class would expand to 39 million by 2012. He said they have reason for the optimist. In 1995 he added those earning $10,000 to $50,000 in India accounted for only 2 per cent of its population that increased to 5 per cent in 2005 and 11 per cent in 2009.

The momentum has been set and India would now grow on its middle class for years to come, he added. A new wave of consumer spending unprecedented in India’s history has sprung he added. He said Pakistan need to increase its effective middle class by increasing its spending on education and skill training. Only after that we could dream of sustained growth on local consumption, he said.

Asif Ali Shahid CPA said that it is the middle class are intellectuals, engineers, doctors, scientists, and industry professionals. They are the backbone of civil society. They influence policies. They fight corruption, bad governance and incompetence. They spur growth; they are consumers of goods and services.

The middle class is also different when it comes to the role of freedom in their lives. They support struggle for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from hunger and poverty, or freedom from crime and violence. He said the middle class is more inclined than the less wealthy to consider equal judicial treatment very important.

When confronted with a choice between a good democracy and a strong economy, members of the middle classes in many developing countries prefer good democracy over affluence, he said.
 
You mean the ADB's data is wrong? Is that your contention, sir? Have you evidence to give credence to your contention? For instance, have you ADB data that the ADB suggests may be flawed? - careful now, I'm not talking about the Google frenzy posted in previous pages citing politcal rivals claiming Musharraf regime fudged numbers, I want ADB numbers, after all we are discussing the ADB report, right?
 
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