Acquiring more T-37s from current and Old Operators

[black-hawk_101]

T-37s with upgrades can be more effective than any other UCAV PAF has access to. So, why not PAF starts up a procurement work on acquiring as many as T-37s as possible specially from the current operators and old too. I am sure PAF can manage to have a fleet of above 200-250+ of them. More over, can easily make up a deal with US or EU or even Turkey for the supply of its avionics to make it a true attack plane.

 

[Informant]

T-37s with upgrades can be more effective than any other UCAV PAF has access to. So, why not PAF starts up a procurement work on acquiring as many as T-37s as possible specially from the current operators and old too. I am sure PAF can manage to have a fleet of above 200-250+ of them. More over, can easily make up a deal with US or EU or even Turkey for the supply of its avionics to make it a true attack plane.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I thinks its quite practical.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

T-37s with upgrades can be more effective than any other UCAV PAF has access to. So, why not PAF starts up a procurement work on acquiring as many as T-37s as possible specially from the current operators and old too. I am sure PAF can manage to have a fleet of above 200-250+ of them. More over, can easily make up a deal with US or EU or even Turkey for the supply of its avionics to make it a true attack plane.

Yaar tu jan bojh kay kerta hai ya tujh say ho jata hai ??? Aur yeh mods bhi tujhay pata nahin kion bardasht ker rahay hain bhai koi baat tau hai I am sure!!!

 

[fatman17]

T-37s with upgrades can be more effective than any other UCAV PAF has access to. So, why not PAF starts up a procurement work on acquiring as many as T-37s as possible specially from the current operators and old too. I am sure PAF can manage to have a fleet of above 200-250+ of them. More over, can easily make up a deal with US or EU or even Turkey for the supply of its avionics to make it a true attack plane.

Bhai who will upgrade a aircraft that has been discontinued.

 

[black-hawk_101]

Bhai who will upgrade a aircraft that has been discontinued.

PAC and TAI....

 

[Pakistanisage]

T-37s with upgrades can be more effective than any other UCAV PAF has access to. So, why not PAF starts up a procurement work on acquiring as many as T-37s as possible specially from the current operators and old too. I am sure PAF can manage to have a fleet of above 200-250+ of them. More over, can easily make up a deal with US or EU or even Turkey for the supply of its avionics to make it a true attack plane.

Sir, T-37 is a great Basic Jet Trainer.

A T-37 is too tiny an aircraft to be an effective attack aircraft.

Notice the difference between empty weight of 4056 lbs. and Maximum weight of 6569 lbs.
which is roughly 2500 lbs.

Now, if you add pilots weight in full gear and weight of the fuel etc. there is hardly room left for 500 lbs. of Armament which is negligible.

An attack aircraft like a A-10 Thunder can carry nearly 20,000+ lbs of Armament.

Here are some of the Specifications on a T-37 :

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 29 ft 3 in (9 m)
• Wingspan: 33 ft 91⁄3 in (10.1 m)
• Height: 9 ft 2 in (2.8 m)
• Empty weight: 4,056 lb (1,840 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 6,569 lb (2,980 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Continental-Teledyne J69-T-25 turbojets, 1,025 lbf (4.56 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 425 mph (369 knots, 684 km/h)
• Range: 810 nmi (932 mi, 1,500 km)
• Service ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,620 m)

Armament

• Total stores stations: None (T-37A/B),
  
• 2 underwing for stores up to 500 lb (227 kg) (T-37C)

 

[black-hawk_101]

Sir, T-37 is a great Basic Jet Trainer.

A T-37 is too tiny an aircraft to be an effective attack aircraft.

Notice the difference between empty weight of 4056 lbs. and Maximum weight of 6569 lbs.
which is roughly 2500 lbs.

Now, if you add pilots weight in full gear and weight of the fuel etc. there is hardly room left for 500 lbs. of Armament which is negligible.

An attack aircraft like a A-10 Thunder can carry nearly 20,000+ lbs of Armament.

Here are some of the Specifications on a T-37 :

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 29 ft 3 in (9 m)
• Wingspan: 33 ft 91⁄3 in (10.1 m)
• Height: 9 ft 2 in (2.8 m)
• Empty weight: 4,056 lb (1,840 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 6,569 lb (2,980 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Continental-Teledyne J69-T-25 turbojets, 1,025 lbf (4.56 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 425 mph (369 knots, 684 km/h)
• Range: 810 nmi (932 mi, 1,500 km)
• Service ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,620 m)

Armament

• Total stores stations: None (T-37A/B),
  
• 2 underwing for stores up to 500 lb (227 kg) (T-37C)

But I am not sure about the A-10s as there are about 300+ of them that can be brought back into service. As these A-10s can be best for PAF to use them in Afghanistan against all kinds and types of terrorist under NATO name.

Also, the role of T-37s in PAF which I have heard is light attack as Super Mushak and K-8 took the duties of Basic and Intermediate jet trainer respectively where as L-15s/ JF-17 dual seat might become the AJT for PAF.

I think PAF is also interested in building up a fleet of T-37s attack ones with avionics upgrade as its seems effective even for the new Cadets coming out from K-8s and FT-7Ps.

 

[Pakistanisage]

But I am not sure about the A-10s as there are about 300+ of them that can be brought back into service. As these A-10s can be best for PAF to use them in Afghanistan against all kinds and types of terrorist under NATO name.

Also, the role of T-37s in PAF which I have heard is light attack as Super Mushak and K-8 took the duties of Basic and Intermediate jet trainer respectively where as L-15s/ JF-17 dual seat might become the AJT for PAF.

I think PAF is also interested in building up a fleet of T-37s attack ones with avionics upgrade as its seems effective even for the new Cadets coming out from K-8s and FT-7Ps.

Have you ever flown a T-37 ?

I have .

What kind of Armament will you carry on a tiny trainer aircraft to make an Attack Aircraft out of it. T-37 A, B and C are all configured to be Trainer Aircraft. They don't have the power nor the Weight capacity to carry bombs.

To convert this light Trainer into an Attack Aircraft, you would have to make massive changes in AIRFRAME, add more powerful ENGINES, add a lot of ARMAMENT and then add modern day AVIONICS. After spending Millions of dollars you will still have a weak Attack Aircraft.


Did you look at the Specs I left for you in my post #7.

The only role PAF have in mind for T-37 is to use it as a " BASIC JET TRAINER ", a role for which it was designed.

For Attack role these days Air Forces are using Modern " ATTACK HELICOPTERS" which are a lot more versatile and can carry 10 times the armament a small trainer will carry.

 

[black-hawk_101]

Have you ever flown a T-37 ?

I have . You cannot convert a small Trainer Aircraft into an Attack Plane just by wishes.

What kind of Armament will you carry on a tiny trainer aircraft to make an Attack Aircraft out of it. T-37 A, B and C are all configured to be Trainer Aircraft. They don't have the power nor the Weight capacity to carry bombs.

Did you look at the Specs I left for you in my post #7.

The only role PAF have in mind for T-37 is to use it as a " BASIC JET TRAINER ", a role for which it was designed.

For Attack role these days Air Forces are using Modern " ATTACK HELICOPTERS" which are a lot more versatile and can carry 10 times the armament a small trainer will carry.

Sir sorry for that. But I have seen in pictures. Im in a side that all the A-10s must be given to PAF to use it against terrorist inside PAKISTAN and Afghanistan.

 

[aliyusuf]

Oh man! Here we go again!

 

[Basel]

Have you ever flown a T-37 ?

I have . You cannot convert a small Trainer Aircraft into an Attack Plane just by wishes.

What kind of Armament will you carry on a tiny trainer aircraft to make an Attack Aircraft out of it. T-37 A, B and C are all configured to be Trainer Aircraft. They don't have the power nor the Weight capacity to carry bombs.

Did you look at the Specs I left for you in my post #7.

The only role PAF have in mind for T-37 is to use it as a " BASIC JET TRAINER ", a role for which it was designed.

For Attack role these days Air Forces are using Modern " ATTACK HELICOPTERS" which are a lot more versatile and can carry 10 times the armament a small trainer will carry.

There was a variant called A-37 Dragon Fly, it was light attack plane. But still all those are to old now and Pakistan should move on to future BJT/AJT.

Cessna A-37 Dragonfly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bossman]

J69=Engines for Babur. That is why PAF keeps getting used T37s

 

[Pakistanisage]

There was a variant called A-37 Dragon Fly, it was light attack plane. But still all those are to old now and Pakistan should move on to future BJT/AJT.

Cessna A-37 Dragonfly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is really a Travesty to call A-37 a variant of T-37. It is almost a different aircraft because they had to change the character of that Airplane. Notice the Vast difference between the Empty weight/Maximum Take-off weight

T-37's Empty Weight vs Gross Take-off weight ( max ) was 4000 lbs. vs. 6500 leaving behind a difference of 2500 with which they had top accommodate the weight of fully geared pilots Plus Fuel which left barely 500 lbs. extra useful weight capacity for Armament.

A-37 was designed to carry thousands of lbs of armament. After strengthening the aircraft, the empty weight vs. Gross take off weight of A-37 was 6200 lbs. vs. 14000 lbs leaving behind almost 8000 lbs extra useful weight capacity for 1 Pilot, Fuel and Armament.

So to make this work, they had to go back to Design board and re-design a totally much stronger Aircraft. They had to completely Gut the airplane and strengthen its wings so they could bear the heavy weight of thousands of pounds of the Armament. Also, as a consequence they had to add 2 new engines which were almost 3 times more powerful.


T-37 - Powerplant: 2 × Continental-Teledyne J69-T-25 turbojets, 1,025 lbf (4.56 kN) each.

A-37 - Powerplant: 2 ×General Electric J85-GE-17Aturbojet, 2,850 lbf (12.7 kN) each.


If we were to replicate what Americans did to convert it into an Attack Airplane, we would have to redesign the Aircraft completely and strengthen the AIRFRAME and replace the Engines with 3 times more powerful ENGINES ( that is assuming that someone will be willing to sell us an appropriate Engine ). After making all those changes to AIRFRAME, adding NEW ENGINES, ADDITION OF ARMAMENT AND MODERN DAY AVIONICS, spending close to 10 to 12 million dollars, you will still get a very poor attack Plane that in its heyday was used by only 2 or 3 Air Forces of the World besides US Air Force.

Why not use the same money and put it in top of the line aircraft available today or put the same money in Modern State of the art Attack Helicopters that China has to offer with All Weather, Day/Night capability and versatility of a helicopter ( ability to hover, hide behind structures and attack ). Heck why not put the same money in our JF-17 Thunder Block III.

Trying to convert 60 year old Trainer into a extremely weak Attack Aircraft after spending millions of Dollars make no sense at all.

I still contend that the best use of our T-37 B's and C's is to use them as Trainers, a role for which they are configured.

Trying to convert these TRAINERS into ATTACK AIRCRAFT will require spending 10 to 12 million dollars on totally gutting the Airplane to strengthen the AIRFRAME, REPLACING PRESENT ENGINES WITH NEW ENGINES, ADDING LATEST AVIONICS AND ARMAMENT. THAT IS NOT A VIABLE PLAN.

For those who think A-37 is a similar aircraft like T-37 , please look at the comparison of Specifications I have left below for your perusal, especially the categories of empty versus Max. T/off weight and also check out the Power of the different Engines or Powerplants:




General characteristics of T-37 Tweet :

• Crew: 2
• Length: 29 ft 3 in (9 m)
• Wingspan: 33 ft 91⁄3 in (10.1 m)
• Height: 9 ft 2 in (2.8 m)
• Empty weight: 4,056 lb (1,840 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 6,569 lb (2,980 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Continental-Teledyne J69-T-25 turbojets, 1,025 lbf (4.56 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 425 mph (369 knots, 684 km/h)
• Range: 810 nmi (932 mi, 1,500 km)
• Service ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,620 m)

Armament

• Total stores stations: None (T-37A/B),
• 2 underwing for stores up to 500 lb (227 kg) (T-37C)

Specifications (A-37B Dragonfly)[edit]



General characteristics of A-37 Dragonfly :

• Crew: 1
• Length: 28 ft 3.4 in (8.62 m)
• Wingspan: 35 ft 10.3 in (10.93 m (including tip tanks))
• Height: 8 ft 10.3 in (2.70 m)
• Wing area: 183.9 ft² (17.09 m²)
• Empty weight: 6,211 lb (2,817 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 14,000 lb (6,350 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-GE-17Aturbojet, 2,850 lbf (12.7 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 507 mph (440 kn, 816 km/h) at 16,000 ft
• Cruise speed: 489 mph (425 kn, 787 km/h) at 25,000 ft
• Stall speed: 113 mph (98 kn, 182 km/h)
• Range: 920 mi (800 nmi, 1,480 km)
• Combat radius: 460 mi (400 nmi, 740 km) with 4,100 lb warload
• Service ceiling: 41,765 ft (12,730 m)
• Rate of climb: 7,000 ft/min (35.5 m/s)

Armament

• Guns: 1× .308 in (7.62 mm)GAU-2B/ Aminigun (mounted in nose)
• Hardpoints: 8 under-wing with a capacity of 1,230 kg
• Gun pods: SUU-11/A(1× 7.62 mmM134minigun),GPU-2/A(1× 20 mmM197cannon), 30 mm DEFA cannon
• Rockets: four pods, each with seven 70 mm/2.75 inch rockets (Mk 4/Mk 40 FFAR rockets in a LAU-32/A, LAU-59, or LAU-68 launcher) or (Mk 66/WAFAR rockets in a LAU-131 launcher)
• Missiles: AIM-9 Sidewinder
• Bombs: 500 lb (241 kg)Mk.82(×8), SUU-14 bomblet dispenser
• Other: Napalm tanks, SUU-25/A Flare Dispenser

 

[black-hawk_101]

J69=Engines for Babur. That is why PAF keeps getting used T37s

Oh got it........ Lolz