Accept Vande Mataram or go to Pakistan

[moha199]

Jana just don't reply to off topic comments and i will do the reporting work. Keep up the good work

 

[EjazR]

@Meesna

Maududi along with Syed Qutb, Abdullah Azzam and Zawahiri are the ideological fathers of all the violence in the name of Islam we see today and from where UBL got his inspiration from. All of whom started the new concept of mixing or rather using Islam for political purposes and were influenced by imperialism and revolutions as well as fascist ideologies in the WWII era.
Hence hardly represent mainstream Islamic view on the Quran and Sunnah.

Contrast this to the conservative Deoband school on Co-existence with non-muslims
Deoband Booklet: Tolerance and Coexistence with Non-Muslims | Indian Muslims

 

[Meesna]

I hope you have read the forum's rules.. Off the topic debates are harmful, It could lead to a ban or a delete post so please if you guys wanna talk about Pakistan then open up another thread thank you

Moha, it’s not a question of discussing Pakistan but establishing a rule to define what is right or wrong in terms of how a country can treat its citizens. Without a base rule its hardly worthwhile any discussion as it would merely be mud throwing. My argument is simple; if one country is free to define limits of freedom of its inhabitants then so is the other country. There is a thing called Universal Declaration of Human Rights to which Pakistan, and I presume India is also a signatory but who is going to get them to abide by it, its hard enough to get them to admit they violate it in the first place.

 

[Meesna]

@EjazR: I agree with you in all you have said but in this case Maududi was quiet logical and clever in that to have a firm grip in Pakistan in the name of religion - his plan after creation of Pakistan despite his best efforts - he has to accept same right for majority in India. Maududi may not be quite mainstream, but his Jamaat had and still has a lot of nuisance value. Taliban are really the advanced shape of what Maududi started, as you have pointed out.

 

[hembo]

Muslim intelligentsia distances itself from fatwa
Sun, Nov 8 11:14 AM

Sangita Bakaya Lucknow, Nov 8 (PTI) Distancing itself from the ''fatwa'' against Muslims singing ''Vande Mataram'', a section of the intelligentsia today said there was a need to educate the community about the actual meaning of the lone "objectionable" word ''vande'' in order to remove doubts over its rendition. Last week, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind at its annual meet in Deoband opposed singing of the national song by Muslims.

Vice President of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board and eminent scholar Maulana Kalbe Sadiq called for a debate among Hindi litterateurs to define the word ''Vande'' used in the song which forms the basis on which it has been termed been as being against their religion. Sadiq told PTI that he was ready to accept the contention of Minority Affairs Minister Salman Khursheed that the National Song had been approved by Maulana Azad on whose suggestions some words were removed.

"If the word Vande stands for respect and showing reverence to the motherland, then Muslims have no ground to object to it and it is for the litterateurs and knowledge persons of Sanskrit, Urdu and Hindi to sit down and debate over it so that the misconceptions about the same can be removed," Sadiq said. He stressed that if the word stands for "worship" it is technically unacceptable for Muslims who cannot worship anyone other than the almighty.

 

[pagans]

Is Jamit -Ullame-e-Hind the biggest religious body of Muslims in India.? If ,yes how can any Muslim go against its decision?. It's pretty clear what the religious stand on the issue.

 

[skeptic9]

They mostly either Hindus or Hindu converts.
There is NO Room for that in Islam

Muslims even Did NOT bow to our Prophets.

So?

Converts are not muslims or are they less Muslims?
Who is more Muslim than whom?

 

[pagans]

When a Muslim has to follow Monotheism that is Allah, singing a song such as Vande Mataram, which is seemingly an idol worship and un-Islamic, will amount to associate one with the Oneness of Allah. None can compel a Muslim to sing the song which is against even secular norms. No Indian has the right to ask the co-Indian to leave the country for sheer indifference of ideologies which can be easily sorted out if one has the political will to establish the religious harmony. Although we don't live in so small country as Nepal or Bhutan, we have to learn a great deal of good things from them too.

The densely Hindu populated countries like Nepal and Bhutan have their National Anthem purely aesthetic in nature and they do not have any religious affiliation.

Vande Mataram and national songs of other Hindu-dominated countries | TwoCircles.net

 

[Spring Onion]

So?

Converts are not muslims or are they less Muslims?
Who is more Muslim than whom?

No they as much Muslims only they need time to acustomed to their new faith and practices

 

[Meesna]

No they as much Muslims only they need time to acustomed to their new faith and practices

How is it wrong to coerce Muslims in India to sing Vande Mataram? I don't support it but am interested to know your issue with something like this in a foreign country.

 

[Spring Onion]

How is it wrong to coerce Muslims in India to sing Vande Mataram? I don't support it but am interested to know your issue with something like this in a foreign country.

Is it against the rules to discuss any issue in the foreign country? If so we should not be discussing US base shooting or what is going on in Afghanistan.

And if so you should have been on Indian forum and on a Pakistan foreign forum

And you need to read all the posts to understand why is it wrong to force vande mataram on Muslims in India.

 

[Khajur]

Is Jamit -Ullame-e-Hind the biggest religious body of Muslims in India.? If ,yes how can any Muslim go against its decision?. It's pretty clear what the religious stand on the issue.

U should read this thread from the beginning to read nice artilcles by eminet indians and even memebers of this forum which clearly suggest that contentious parts of Vande Mataram had already been removed before it became india's nation song.

This song had been part of freedom struggle...anybody disregarding its historical importance on mere religious ground without serious study is a twit.

Ignorant pakistani like Jana could be pardoned as they suffer from habitual anti indian disposition...but no educated indians of any religion who knows this country's history how out freedom fighter of all hue who sacrificed their youth and joined freedom struggle shouting the slogan of "Vande Mataram " to make silly excuses like lets have a more secular "purely aesthetic "
nation songs as in the case of nepal or Bhutan.

 

[Meesna]

Is it against the rules to discuss any issue in the foreign country? If so we should not be discussing US base shooting or what is going on in Afghanistan.

And if so you should have been on Indian forum and on a Pakistan foreign forum

And you need to read all the posts to understand why is it wrong to force vande mataram on Muslims in India.

What is your beef with what is going on in India? Is it a violation of human rights? Then so are many things going on in Pakistan. Secular India and Islamic Republic of Pakistan are both guilty. Case settled. Rest is just mud slinging.

 

[Spring Onion]

What is your beef with what is going on in India? Is it a violation of human rights? Then so are many things going on in Pakistan. Secular India and Islamic Republic of Pakistan are both guilty. Case settled. Rest is just mud slinging.

Anyone stopped you from discussing issues reg human rights violation in Pakistan?

No we did not and we are open to discuss that in the relevent thread.


When you use the secular vs non-secilar then the onus is on the secular keeping in view your claim.

 

[Spring Onion]

U should read this thread from the beginning to read nice artilcles by eminet indians and even memebers of this forum which clearly suggest that contentious parts of Vande Mataram had already been removed before it became india's nation song.

This song had been part of freedom struggle...anybody disregarding its historical importance on mere religious ground without serious study is a twit.

Ignorant pakistani like Jana could be pardoned as they suffer from habitual anti indian disposition...but no educated indians of any religion who knows this country's history how out freedom fighter of all hue who sacrificed their youth and joined freedom struggle shouting the slogan of "Vande Mataram " to make silly excuses like lets have a more secular "purely aesthetic "
nation songs as in the case of nepal or Bhutan.

The history of this song is clear go and read. again and again.

Insisting on singing it by Muslims is the most unfair thing specially when you have a national anthem and when Muslims do not object to that and sing it proudly then what is your problem with it.

Indeed there is more than a just song .