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about Muslim Brahmins of Pakistan and Kashmir

They use Rana as the title and Manj as the surname.

I'm specifically talking about Manj of shiekhupura... They are notorious for their "badmashi" and involvement in crime & politics... they don't even use the title Rana.. just Manj.
The actual Rajputs of Punjab are 'ranas' of Majha/upper Punjab and East Punjab.
And yes, Ranghars marry within themselves only, a lot of them settled in district Pakpattan as well.
As I said even they don't marry among ranghars... both consider eachother inferior.. Aswell as the local Rajputs... and mostly marry among their respective communities.
 
My great-grandfather, Pandit Mansanath, converted to Islam after studying the religion under a local Muslim scholar in Srinagar. In those times Muslim scholars and teachers were given the title of a 'Sheikh' and thus it became a very respected title within the Muslim community. So when my great-grandfather converted he changed his surname from Pandit to 'Sheikh'. This practice became the practice for many converts, so much so that there came a time when the surname 'Sheikh' signified that you were a convert (as alluded to by @-blitzkrieg-). This is the reason why this particular surname is found across pretty much all the ethnicities of the region and has no ethnic or tribal significance, as compared to most surnames in the region.

1) We converted because our ancestors thought Islam to be the true path.

2) We are not seen as Muslim Pundits or converts at all. We have taken new identities void of religious connotations, e.g. I am a Kashmiri and that is all I am known by if at all. I identify as a Pakistani with Kashmiri ethnicity, period.

3) I haven't met a Muslim with 'Pundit' as their surname. As mentioned before, we changed our surnames. We are however seen as any other Muslims, at most we are distinguished by our ethnicity, e.g. Kashmiri.

4) We used to try to marry within other Kashmiris but it wasn't a strict rule at all, it was instead just a preference due to cultural reasons. Over the years this preference has become even less important. For example, one of my uncles married a non-Kashmiri. I come from a strict Kashmiri lineage but have married a Rajput. No one really cares enough for it to have any effect. Our biradaris were strictly based on ethnicity and weren't strict biradaris at all. Kashmiris are known to be more open minded to assimilation and integration, at least on this side of the border. Within the Kashmiri biradari there is no distinction between former Brahmin Kashmiris and former non-Brahmin Kashmiris.

5) We mostly see our heritage through our ethnic ancestry without any religious colours to it. The modern Pakistani though is increasingly more interested and accepting of his/her pre-Islam heritage.

6) Like I mentioned before, no one really cares for our Brahmin past, not even us. And I am an example of a Muslim from Brahmin ancestry who married into Rajputs. My maternal side (also formerly Kashmiri Brahmins) is heavily married into Balochs and Pashtuns. Most of them moved to Quetta after moving from Kashmir.

ps: Nawaz Sharif is from the Lahori Kashmiri Biradari as well. Don't know if he comes from Brahmin roots or not. @Zibago does though, haha.



Sheikh sahab, aap baaz na ana :lol:
Nawaz sharif is a Bhat (Butt) from Shopian IoK his great grandfather migrated to Amritsar and after partition migrated to Lahore(unfortunately)
 
My great-grandfather, Pandit Mansanath, converted to Islam after studying the religion under a local Muslim scholar in Srinagar. In those times Muslim scholars and teachers were given the title of a 'Sheikh' and thus it became a very respected title within the Muslim community. So when my great-grandfather converted he changed his surname from Pandit to 'Sheikh'. This practice became the practice for many converts, so much so that there came a time when the surname 'Sheikh' signified that you were a convert (as alluded to by @-blitzkrieg-). This is the reason why this particular surname is found across pretty much all the ethnicities of the region and has no ethnic or tribal significance, as compared to most surnames in the region.

1) We converted because our ancestors thought Islam to be the true path.

2) We are not seen as Muslim Pundits or converts at all. We have taken new identities void of religious connotations, e.g. I am a Kashmiri and that is all I am known by if at all. I identify as a Pakistani with Kashmiri ethnicity, period.

3) I haven't met a Muslim with 'Pundit' as their surname. As mentioned before, we changed our surnames. We are however seen as any other Muslim, at most we are distinguished by our ethnicity, e.g. Kashmiri.

4) We used to try to marry within other Kashmiris but it wasn't a strict rule at all, it was instead just a preference due to cultural reasons. Over the years this preference has become even less important. For example, one of my uncles married a non-Kashmiri. I come from a strict Kashmiri lineage but have married a Rajput. No one really cares enough for it to have any effect. Our biradaris were strictly based on ethnicity and weren't strict biradaris at all. Kashmiris are known to be more open minded to assimilation and integration, at least on this side of the border. Within the Kashmiri biradari there is no distinction between former Brahmin Kashmiris and former non-Brahmin Kashmiris.

5) We mostly see our heritage through our ethnic ancestry without any religious colours to it. The modern Pakistani though is increasingly more interested and accepting of his/her pre-Islam heritage.

6) Like I mentioned before, no one really cares for our Brahmin past, not even us. And I am an example of a Muslim from Brahmin ancestry who married into Rajputs. My maternal side (also formerly Kashmiri Brahmins) is heavily married into Balochs and Pashtuns. Most of them moved to Quetta after moving from Kashmir.

ps: Nawaz Sharif is from the Lahori Kashmiri Biradari as well. Don't know if he comes from Brahmin roots or not. @Zibago does though, haha.



Sheikh sahab, aap baaz na ana :lol:
I'm the second person in my family to marry outside Baluch.

First was my uncle who found love across the border in Iran.

I found it in the neighbouring province, KPK.

Also there are shiekhs even among Pakhtun.. they belong to the working class.. dhobis etc.
 
Nawaz sharif is a Bhat (Butt) from Shopian IoK his great grandfather migrated to Amritsar and after partition migrated to Lahore(unfortunately)
My roommate and class fellow in univ... was a butt too..

His great grandparents came from anantnag/Islamabad during famine and settled in Azad Kashmir.
 
Hahahaha! Kiunke baki sara Pakistan arabi hona jo claim karata hai.
Pata nahi ye Bhutto aur Bhatti kon si Arabi tribe kay hain :D

My roommate and class fellow in univ... was a butt too..

His great grandparents came from anantnag/Islamabad during famine and settled in Azad Kashmir.
Most Kashmiris moved out of the province during the famine they are called Butts because the Pahari pronunciation of the word Bhat :D
Fun fact everyone who migrated from Kashmir was called Butt by Punjabis so a lot of Butts in Punjab may not be Bhats :-)
 
Sad. Too bad we were not able to save them in past. :(

Oh but we were saved.

We are discriminated against but we hold massive psychological sway over the general public. Its like a wife in south asian culture who doesnt like her husband but still has to server him with her body whenever he wants. So in the end we get what we want due to the comfortable mental edge we have over all of them even when we are disliked as an extension of the dislike for hindus.

Lol. False flagger.

Sad. Too bad we were not able to save them in past. :(

Do these muslims hate real brahmins as well despite being former brahmins?

Nope. Contrary to the popular belief in India, we don't hate Hindus, we hate the occupation of our land.


Are u a muslim brahmin ?

What kind of influence you have over general public there ?

And why your ancestors converted to Islam when you are facing discrimination even today ?

Also, please tell me perks (advanadvantages and limitations of) being a muslim brahmin.

He's not. He's not even a Pakistani, trust me.

Also there are shiekhs even among Pakhtun.. they belong to the working class.. dhobis etc.

Yeah, heard of that. My Paskhtoon friend didn't believe me when I told him.

Pata nahi ye Bhutto aur Bhatti kon si Arabi tribe kay hain :D

Janab apko nahi pata, in sub ke pass family trees hain. Pakistan mein Arabia se ziyada arabi hain.

Most Kashmiris moved out of the province during the famine they are called Butts because the Pahari pronunciation of the word Bhat :D
Fun fact everyone who migrated from Kashmir was called Butt by Punjabis so a lot of Butts in Punjab may not be Bhats :-)

Lol true. My maternal side's surname is actually "Kasher" but are now known as Butts.
 
Stupid brahmin I hope your daughter run away with dalit.
We created Eastern civilization boy, even whites wanted to be like us. (Boston brahmins)

Despite being muslim for 100s of years, real muslims respect us more than they respect you. This is the status of Brahmins.

And we are brahmins, emphomee of Pride and Honor. don't worry about our women they are more proud than us.
 
The caste system is alive and pretty much kicking as well. Sometimes i wonder if there was nothing left to be divided upon we would create one out of thin air.

This inferiority/superiority complex will eventually die out but it will take quite a few million people on its shoulder as it goes.
 
Interesting thing to note is that in most Hindu texts like the Mahabharata, Punjab (called Aratta-Vahika) is described as a mlechha/foreigner like land which is outside the boundaries of 'Brahmavarta' (whose western boundary was at Kurukshetra, Haryana) and where varna and dharma is not practiced and Brahmins are advised not to go. Before entering this region, Brahmins performed purification rites.

"Where forests of Pilus stand, and those five rivers flow, viz., the Satadru, the Vipasa, the Iravati, the Candrabhaga, and the Vitasa and which have the Sindhu for their sixth, there in those regions removed from the Himavat, are the countries called by the name of the Arattas. Those regions are without virtue and religion. No one should go thither. (VIII.30.36)"

screenshot_20170427-054009-png.393254


Kashmir too would be considered the same and outside the boundary of Brahmavarta which could explain why Kashmiri Brahmins were more liberal and willing to convert to Islam.

This is also the reason why Punjabis voted for the Muslim League and Pakistan in 1947 (jk :P)


in Haryana?
Lol.

Aryavarta was KPK,Punjab, Haryana and western UP in early age.
 
My great-grandfather, Pandit Mansanath, converted to Islam after studying the religion under a local Muslim scholar in Srinagar. In those times Muslim scholars and teachers were given the title of a 'Sheikh' and thus it became a very respected title within the Muslim community. So when my great-grandfather converted he changed his surname from Pandit to 'Sheikh'. This practice became the practice for many converts, so much so that there came a time when the surname 'Sheikh' signified that you were a convert (as alluded to by @-blitzkrieg-).
Shaikh title in Pashtun nation is used for saints, buzargan-i-deen from their tribes e.g Shaikh Michin Niazi, Shaikh Hussain Kasi, Shaikh Kabir Bhittani etc
 
SHould i tell him or not :D ?

Son of a converted Brahmin
Iqbal-Day65329924_2015118143028.jpg

5d316fb1720f05643a358261883ae74d.jpg



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Shaikh

I know about him, truely, we brahmins are special breed.
IMGP3865.JPG


even muslim brahmins today are ruling pakistan ! :D

I think this was only in Kashmir Valley that Brahmins converted to Islam. Only they have Brahmin clan names like Pandit, Bhat etc. Apart from that, in AJK there are Potohari/Pahari speaking Sudhans who are Brahmin converts as well. But I dont think there are any Punjabi Brahmins that converted to Islam (apart from the Kashmiri Butts, Dars etc. that settled in Punjab in the 18th and 19th centuries).

I guess you are right.

as Brahmins are almost 20 to 25% in North Indian states of Jammu,UK and Himachal. i guess majority of brahmins migrated to the Hilly Areas to avoid conversation in Medieval period.

even my own Brahmin family(small community of 250 family) Migrated to Gujarat from Haryana just before first ever Islamic Invasion of India.
 
even muslim brahmins today are ruling pakistan ! :D
No such thing as Muslim Brahmins we are Kashmiri Sheikhs :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Shaikh
After the advent of [Islam] into Afghanistan and South Asia, a significant number of Hindu Brahmins and Kshatriya's converted to Islam and adopted the title of Shaikh. In Punjab, they are known as Kashmiri Shaikh. The Kashmiri Shaikhs are predominantly urban.
:D

My great grandfather converted to Islam to what was once a small village in Srinagar and later moved to modern Mirpur AJk
SHeikh was an honorary title for Kashmiri brahmins who embraced Islam
 
I have a "brahmin" friend from Kashmir , settled in Islamabad.. both his maternal and paternal grandfathers were generals,his father retired as a Lt Col (Surgeons).

There is no difference .. although I sometimes jokingly call him "Pandit sb"..

But that's about it.

I also have Rajput friend, Muslim ,proud of his heritage (and mostly conservative, marry among their community)..

All in all, I don't see any difference?

All are Pak, Muslim .. nobody cares.

brahmins ruled all over Asia from Afghanistan to the ASEAN countries like Thailand, Combodia, Vietnam and Indonesia. Angkor vat was built by Brahmin Kings for example. so i am not surprised that his Family have martial roots. my own family have held jagirs in KAthiyawad Gujarat for 900 years.

can you tell me whats his surname ?

Sounds like Bullshyt!
Makes no sense, when you Panjabis take pride in surnames like Rana,Raja,Sandhu,Chatha,Cheema etc and claim you are discriminated against ? In what way exactly ?


Awans aren't Brahmins or Jatts... they claim descent from Hazrat Ali... can be found in Panjab and even Afghanistan... a big tribe, nawab of kalabagh being their chief of sorts..

Although no proof of it (their links with Hazrat Ali), but there are no Hindu or Sikh awans..

yeah we dont have any Awans or Arians in India, not even in Punjab. maybe one of this community is made of Migrants from Afghanistan or MENA(Middle East and North Africa).

Sindh is diverse AF.

I've met 3rd gen Baluch (my new driver is a Magsi, whose grandfather migrated from jhal Magsi).

Another guy I met is a Sindhi of Pashtun origin.

Than there are Sindhi Baluch like Talpurs,Jatois etc.

Sindhi Rajputs Soomro,Samma (whose dynasties ruled the Sindh state).

Than other tribes like Kalhoros etc.
Memons (sindhis & Gujrati , from Kutch).


Syeds (descendents of Pirs, who are respected madly, even if they are azzholez,exploiting poor).

The Hindus of Sindh (Umer/Amar Kots rulers were Hindu Rajputs, Late Former Minister Rana Chander Singh) are also divided .. Rajputs,Traders and the Dalit Bheels who again are exploited by land owners and high castes).


P.S; Mithi is a Hindu majority city of Pakistan... I believe like 70+% people are Hindu).
majority of rajputs of Gujarat are infect Sindhis.

Jadejas are Junejas (muslim rajputs still uses junejas here), Chudasamas are samma rajputs, Jethwas and other major Rajput tribes are infect Sindhis who migrated to Western Gujarat. and rajputs are 20% of West Gujarat population.
 

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