Aboriginal Races of Frontier prior to the Pashtun invasions

[DESERT FIGHTER]

All Muslims in South asian like to claim foreign ancestry like Pakistanis for example. that doesn't make it true. I can't tell the difference between a Hyderbadi Muslim and a Tamil Muslim. They look the same and they are the same.

We do? im a Marri Baluch... Samandri is a Marwat Pashtun....Save Ghenda is a Punjabi Jatt... Ghoul is a Potohari Rajput (Janjua. i think)...

How you ever met a Pakistani?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes, I have. I met a Pakistani student in Bangalore, he was from Hyderbad, Sindh and claimed to be Persian.

Many Sindhis have persian ancestory...all assimilated into the sindhi culture... take the sindhi baluch people for example.. they are ethnically baluch but have assimilated into sindhi culture and are proud of their sindhi culture....

Sindh was heavily influenced by Persian culture..the language itself... many of the elites were of persian origin... But Sindhis as a people are proud of their heritage...

SINDHI – Encyclopaedia Iranica

 

[ghoul]

We do? im a Marri Baluch... Samandri is a Marwat Pashtun....Save Ghenda is a Punjabi Jatt... Ghoul is a Potohari Rajput (Janjua. i think)...

How you ever met a Pakistani?

Bro I'm not a Janjua. I'm a Hoon Rajput(pronounce hoonh). I usually keep my clan secret on this forum for I don't want to get discovered in real life. I have made a couple of politically non-correct posts here haha. And we are a rather small, but quite gangsta clan in the region in the sense that we make great badmaashes for our population size. haha.

But marathas themselves are dalits. I think mujahis is right, there are lots of muslims in Hydrabad with foreign ancestry.

Marathas are not dalits. They are Rashtrakutas. The Holkars on the other hand, though, were shudras.

 

[Peshwa]

Marathas are not dalits. They are Rashtrakutas. The Holkars on the other hand, though, were shudras.

Where exactly are you getting you information from?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Okay, u are all persian afghan and Arab. Now be happy

And you all must be "Stupid" ... Who do you think are Pashtun? Afghan word was used historically for Pashtuns.. and the man who coined that term is burried in Pak (Largest Pashtun country--- with more Pashtuns than the total population of Afghanistan) ... Khushal Khan Khattak..

Baluch (us) are also an "iranic" people...

None of us claim any "foriegn" origin.. little man... its all in your tiny brain-full of nonsense,,

 

[ghoul]

Where exactly are you getting you information from sir?

Various sources. I read about Holkar dynasty's origin from wikipedia though. They were dhangars, who are supposedly asssociated with cow herding and weaving, which automatically makes one a shudra according to your caste system.

 

[Peshwa]

Various sources. I read about Holkar dynasty's origin from wikipedia though. They were dhangars, who are supposedly asssociated with cow herding and weaving, which automatically makes one a shudra according to your caste system.

Maratha identity with its rise in the 16th and 17th century was more to do with regionalism and language than with caste system

Marathis in general have abandoned the caste system given that people from castes outside of the Kshatriyas became rulers, going as far as the brahmins taking up arms for the nation..we have been the most socially uplifting community in India for the longest time, with a special emphasis on upliftment of women

Please dont bring all this caste bullshit into the discussion, as its beneath the Marathi community...we have left that crap behind!

 

[ghoul]

First off...Dhangar is a sub-division of the maratha caste..
Secondly, Maratha identity with its rise in the 16th and 17th century was more to do with regionalism and language than with caste system

Marathis in general have abandoned the caste system given that people from castes outside of the Kshatriyas became rulers, going as far as the brahmins taking up arms for the nation..we have been the most socially uplifting community in India for the longest time.

Please dont bring all this caste bullshit into the discussion its beneath the Marathi community...we have left that crap behind!

That was the reason for your success and the Indian rajputs' fail. The Kshatryas became so used to pampering that they became lazy. They got society's respect without even trying. Marhattas and jat(vaishyas)/sudras on the other hand had to make blunt decisions to get respect. Hence you saw the territorial ambition and dash in Marhattas and Bharatpur's Jats, but not really in the Indian rajputs, who were on the defensive for the most part of the last 1000 years.

Also, the two most successful rulers of India were sudras. The first one was "Nanda"; the guy whom Alexander the great feared. It wasn't the monsoon rain which made Alexander go back, it was rather the reports of Nanda having 30,000 war elephants that scared the !@#$ out of Greeks. The second guy was Chandragupta Maurya, who was also a non-Kshatriya. He took over the Nanda empire from the shudra nanda dyansty.

I'm from Bhonsle Maratha clan, do you have any info on their origins?

I have no clue, though I would read up on Marhattas in the near future. Very interesting people.

 

[Peshwa]

That was the reason for your success and the Indian rajputs' fail. The Kshatryas became so used to pampering that they became lazy. They got society's respect without even trying. Marhattas and jat(vaishyas)/sudras on the other hand had to make blunt decisions to get respect. Hence you saw the territorial ambition and dash in Marhattas and Bharatpur's Jats, but not really in the Indian rajputs, who were on the defensive for the most part of the last 1000 years.

Also, the two most successful rulers of India were sudras. The first one was "Nanda"; the guy whom Alexander the great feared. It wasn't the monsoon rain which made Alexander go back, it was rather the reports of Nanda having 30,000 war elephants that scared the !@#$ out of Greeks. The second guy was Chandragupta Maurya, who was also a non-Kshatriya. He took over the Nanda empire from the shudra nanda dyansty.

i think the idea you are looking for is that Maratha's found factors to unify ourselves while the rest of india tried to find ways of further differentiating themselves...

Our unity was our greatest asset...we didn't care whether you were brahmin or Shudra, hindu or Muslim...If you were marathi you were one of us...
Muslims proudly fought for Marathis for this very same reason and we didnt spare hindus or muslims alike that were not marathi..
TBH, the seeds for the foundation of what India has been envisioned to be as a modern nation was sown with the rise of the marathas..

About the Nanda's and Mauryas, my knowledge is limited,...But just goes to show that might is right..has nothing to do with genetics as or birth!

That's true, casteism is almost dead in Maharashtra, some areas it is there but compared to others I don't really see people putting much importance on it. I've seen Brahmins from here choosing a lower caste Marathis to marry there daughters instead of Brahmins from other states.

It just isnt part of our DNA....we chose to find common identity through our language and culture!

Not to mention that we were the first in India to educate our women and send them abroad for higher education....we should be proud of how we treat our women and how our women are like tigresses...Rani Lakshmi Bai for one!

 

[ghoul]

i think the idea you are looking for is that Maratha's found factors to unify ourselves while the rest of india tried to find ways of further differentiating themselves...

Our unity was our greatest asset...we didn't care whether you were brahmin or Shudra, hindu or Muslim...If you were marathi you were one of us...
Muslims proudly fought for Marathis for this very same reason and we didnt spare hindus or muslims alike that were not marathi..
TBH, the seeds for the foundation of what India has been envisioned to be as a modern nation was sown with the rise of the marathas..

About the Nanda's and Mauryas, my knowledge is limited,...But just goes to show that might is right..has nothing to do with genetics as or birth!



It just isnt part of our DNA....we chose to find common identity through our language and culture!

Not to mention that we were the first in India to educate our women and send them abroad for higher education....we should be proud of how we treat our women and how our women are like tigresses...Rani Lakshmi Bai for one!

Yeah unity is a great strength. Ranjit Singh formed a successful, but short lived, state because of the fact that he united Punjabis and Dogras. But I disagree with the genetics part. I think it's the hardship of daily lives which makes nations to be warriors. Water shortage, mountainous terrain, deserts makes people warrior in my opinion. Marhattas were warriors because they belonged to a hilly region.

As of today, I heard marhattas are getting invaded by Biharis? Be afraid, be very afraid. Biharis can easily beat marhattas in my opinion. Alexander the Great was given a good fight by the punjabis(nd potoharis+seraikis), but they were defeated. It was rather the biharis who stopped Alexander from crossing Beas and foiled his dream of seeing the rising sun. Biharis defeated Alexander the Great without firing a shot. Marhattas are next.

 

[Peshwa]

Yeah unity is a great strength. Ranjit Singh formed a successful, but short lived, state because of the fact that he united Punjabis and Dogras. But I disagree with the genetics part. I think it's the hardship of daily lives which makes nations to be warriors. Water shortage, mountainous terrain, deserts makes people warrior in my opinion. Marhattas were warriors because they belonged to a hilly region.

A cornered dog will take down another dog 3 times its size...
Its not the size of the dog in the fight...its the size of the fight in the dog!!

Jews have been enslaved and considered "non martial" throughout their history...but you will notice that with the right motivation, training and with purpose, they are able to take down what you would have called the "traditional" warriors with an overwhelming advantage...
So i have to disagree with you...
Coz if genetics defined victory, then you would never have seen the likes of the Vietcong giving a bloody nose to the americans

As of today, I heard marhattas are getting invaded by Biharis? Be afraid, be very afraid. Biharis can easily beat marhattas in my opinion. Alexander the Great was given a good fight by the punjabis(nd potoharis+seraikis), but they were defeated. It was rather the biharis who stopped Alexander from crossing Beas and foiled his dream of seeing the rising sun. Biharis defeated Alexander the Great without firing a shot. Marhattas are next.

Biharis are the smartest of the Indian lot in my opinion....and I think brain trumps brawn any day...
so not going into any sort of physical attributes, they easily could...

But most importantly, Marathas being invaded is a foolish statement....Maharashtra belongs to every Indian!!
Biharis are more than welcome to come share our wealth, resources and prosperity...anyone who says otherwise can go to hell!

 

[Peshwa]

I agree with some but some Biharis are indeed a problem. Pakistan has a Bihari problem in Karachi.

Why are they a problem?
If we don't stop Gujratis, Marwaris, Sindhis, punjabis from being in Maharashtra, what right do we have to stop the Biharis?
They have equal right on opportunities as well...

 

[KingMamba]

Maratha identity with its rise in the 16th and 17th century was more to do with regionalism and language than with caste system

Marathis in general have abandoned the caste system given that people from castes outside of the Kshatriyas became rulers, going as far as the brahmins taking up arms for the nation..we have been the most socially uplifting community in India for the longest time, with a special emphasis on upliftment of women

Please dont bring all this caste bullshit into the discussion, as its beneath the Marathi community...we have left that crap behind!

Maratha Empire is one of my favorites, Shivaji was a good Emperor who was able to look past religious and caste difference to forge an empire. It is a shame hindutvas hold him as some sort of radical hindu champion which I guess makes other communities not give the time and focus to his reign that he probably deserves.

The only problem I have with the Marathas is that later Peshwas colluded with the British against other kingdoms which led to their eventual defeat by the same British.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why are they a problem?
If we don't stop Gujratis, Marwaris, Sindhis, punjabis from being in Maharashtra, what right do we have to stop the Biharis?
They have equal right on opportunities as well...

were marathas also proud rapists? (according to manz).. please enlighten him and us..

 

[Kabira]

All Muslims in South asian like to claim foreign ancestry like Pakistanis for example. that doesn't make it true. I can't tell the difference between a Hyderbadi Muslim and a Tamil Muslim. They look the same and they are the same.

You are not getting it, when Pakistani claim to be pashtun he is not claiming foreign ancestry. But same is not the case in India where lots of pashtuns have left their decendents. Plus many other muslim people settled all over India. Pashtuns are not native to India.

There is concept of ajlaf and ashraf muslim in India, ashraf ones have foreign blood and ajlaf ones are natives.