Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[Zibago]

about 5 or 6 percent do, if you are to add up the the votes of all religous groups combined you will be lucky to get double digits in percentage terms, it is just that they bark louder than anyone else.kudos

Nope not 5 to 6% but a solid 80-90% our political parties get votes on biradri bases but that doesnot mean someone who votes for a so called liberal party doesnot have extremist view just check out the thousands that came out for Qadri,checkout the twotter reaction do you really think the problem of extremism is as small as we presume it to be

 

[Hamza913]

about 5 or 6 percent do, if you are to add up the the votes of all religous groups combined you will be lucky to get double digits in percentage terms, it is just that they bark louder than anyone else.kudos

Not even that. Jammat-e-Islami Pakistan holds next to no seats.

We don't need secularism, nor sholuld we get it.

Remember, we are Muslims first, then Pakistani. Being secular just shows that we value country over religion, which is un-Islamic.

Besides, without Islam, we wouldn't exist. Our country was made to be an Islamic nation with Islamic principles. Making it secular does not compute.

I would only support Pakistan becoming secular if we had a substantial kafir population. We don't.

 

[IndusisHindu]

We don't see ourselves as liberators. We either:

1. Don't think twice about them (most common)
2. Sympathise with them and their problems (fairly common, but not amongst the more patriotic bunch)
3. View them as munafiq (I adhere to this thought process, but only for the more patriotic Indian Muslims)

Well not being a Pakistani I can't comment on what you think but the idea of the Ummah more so within the boundaries of the subcontinent, still holds a powerful sense of attachment for all Muslims. That is why something like Babri mosque incident provokes a similar retribution on Hindu places of worship in Pakistan or Bangladesh. The idea of the Muslim Self is intricately dependent and defined by the existence of the Hindu Other for almost all subcontinental Muslims more so for the Pakistanis.

Your idea of terming Indian Muslims as munafiqs doesn't count because within a span of a few years the population of Indian Muslims will exceed that of yours. Then the futility of this slandering exercise be like Indonesia terming Arabs as munafiqs because Indian Muslims could care less what a Pakistani thinks about them.

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

Maybe it is time to abandon our status as the "Islamic" "Republic" of Pakistan, and return to our secular roots which were planned by the fathers of the nation. Not a literal name change, but Pakistani people need to abandon the "Islamic Republic" ideology. Pakistan was created because Jinnah and co were afraid that in a Hindu dominated Country, there would always be episodes of violence and disagreement between the two chief religions, as Muslims of India had grown to become an almost different culture. Thus Pakistan was created so that the Muslims and Hindus can live in peace alone. Pakistan was created because the Muslim League felt the new "Hindus"tan would not be secular enough, not because it wouldn't be "Islamic" enough. Do we want to end up like the Middle East?

Also, it is embarrassing how many people believe in ridiculously stupid Jewish conspiracy theories, and hate Jews so much without having ever having seen one in their entire lives. Can a mature, mentally healthy human being actually believe such far fetched stories? Is this the result of one or two generations of cousin-cousin breeding? The reality is every year hundreds, if not thousands of non-Muslims are persecuted and harassed all along the country, but our sympathies are only for Palestine and non-existent dead Muslims in Burma and India. Isn't it ridiculous how people in Pakistan want women to "cover" themselves up, yet Google confirms the most number of pornographic searches are from Pakistan. Google also confirms that South Asia ranks the highest in bestiality searches.

Now people are going to be blame me for having such a negative view of my home country, but I am telling the truth, and even if the truth is not something that was told to us through biased text books. Media doesn't report such incidents because they are more focused on who Imran Khan wants to sleep with, and they don't have time for a family of murdered Ahmaids, Shias, Chrisitans, Hindus, etc. But of course it is all Mossad's, RAW's and CIA's fault, because they have so much time and resources to waste on us. (Well, RAW is an exception I guess. They all have the time in the world for their little Eastern Sibling)


P.S Removing it won't really affect the economical or the political situation. It would improve the social condition.

(NON PAKISTANIS KINDLY DON'T VOTE ON THE POLL)

Sir I think we have tried our level best to become Bani Israel part 2. Jinnah speeches are twisted to show that he wanted a secular Pakistan. In reality all he said was that the state has nothing to do with people personal affairs such as religion but de he said anything about the system of the state? From his speeches it is very clear that he wanted Islamic system which unfortunately we never implemented and yet we criticize it as if the current system is an Islamic one. Bravo to those who even think like this

 

[Zibago]

Not even that. Jammat-e-Islami Pakistan holds next to no seats.

We don't need secularism, nor sholuld we get it.

Remember, we are Muslims first, then Pakistani. Being secular just shows that we value country over religion, which is un-Islamic.

Besides, without Islam, we wouldn't exist. Our country was made to be an Islamic nation with Islamic principles. Making it secular does not compute.

I would only support Pakistan becoming secular if we had a substantial kafir population. We don't.

I value country over religion whats wrong with that attitude?

Being secular doesnot mean being irreligeous it means the state as an institution has no religion
No more draconian laws like Qasas and Diyat

 

[Imran Khan]

Time to tag @Imran Khan @unleashed and @django
Our experimentation with trying to get an Islamic state gave us Swat,Red Mosque and TTP rule in FATA it just cannot wprk its bound to be hijacked by extremist elements its time we stop our experimentation and adapt a system similar to Turkey

We shouldnt experiment on our people

bhai na hamara islamic republic se wasta hai na pakistan se . hamara kya jo dil kary name rakheen

 

[django]

Nope not 5 to 6% but a solid 80-90% our political parties get votes on biradri bases but that doesnot mean someone who votes for a so called liberal party doesnot have extremist view just check out the thousands that came out for Qadri,checkout the twotter reaction do you really think the problem of extremism is as small as we presume it to be

well clearly they are not extreme enough to want these guys in power, that is clear to all, as for Qadri, in a country of 199 million it is no surprise that so many came out but that does not mean that a large majority is extremist. it is just that the extremist punch above their weight somewhat.

Not even that. Jammat-e-Islami Pakistan holds next to no seats.

We don't need secularism, nor sholuld we get it.

Remember, we are Muslims first, then Pakistani. Being secular just shows that we value country over religion, which is un-Islamic.

Besides, without Islam, we wouldn't exist. Our country was made to be an Islamic nation with Islamic principles. Making it secular does not compute.

I would only support Pakistan becoming secular if we had a substantial kafir population. We don't.

We have a constitution that is based on Islamic principles, certainly progressive compared to the Talibs interpretation of Islam.

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

I value country over religion whats wrong with that attitude?

Being secular doesnot mean being irreligeous it means the state as an institution has no religion
No more draconian laws like Qasas and Diyat

Muslims are bound to judge in the light of Quran. We the muslims do not have any choice in the matters in which Allah Almighty or his messenger (peace be upon him) has given any order. Read the Quran if you have any doubts regarding this matter. I am starting to believe now that being secular really means that one does not know anything about the religion and yet he/she talks as if he/she knows everything. Only those people are demanding a secular state who have weak bonds with the religion. Perhaps they think that the religion is nothing but the stories of the past people.

 

[Solomon2]

Till the majority of Pakistanis are still Muslim, Islam won't be going anywhere from the laws. According to the Constitution of Pakistan, we are an Islamic state and all laws need to conform with shariah (trying to change the constitution is treason).

The Ottoman Caliphs abandoned shariah in the early nineteenth century. Do you consider their doing so "treason" as well? Do you think it worthwhile for Pakistanis to ask why the Caliphs gave up on shariah rather than keep it?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

but we will lose our reason to be a separate country from India.

Why? Are you going to invite British to make Pakistan India? 1947 was part deux and part uno was 1843 when the British made what is now Pakistan "British India".

Link > https://defence.pk/threads/how-free-sindh-was-forced-to-be-india.424632/

 

[BordoEnes]

Under normal circumstances i would immediatly chose the secular option for Pakistan but there are certain factors you have to take into account. The Pakistani identity is largely based around the fact they are a Muslim majority country. The reason why it function despite the massive ethnic diversity is solely because of Islam. If we take away Islam from Pakistan then what is the point of their existence? Wasnt Pakistan created and founded so Muslims could have their own country in the Indian Subcontinent?

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

Time to tag @Imran Khan @unleashed and @django
Our experimentation with trying to get an Islamic state gave us Swat,Red Mosque and TTP rule in FATA it just cannot wprk its bound to be hijacked by extremist elements its time we stop our experimentation and adapt a system similar to Turkey

We shouldnt experiment on our people

We never implemented the Islamic law since

The Ottoman Caliphs abandoned shariah in the early nineteenth century. Do you consider their doing so "treason" as well? Do you think it worthwhile for Pakistanis to ask why the Caliphs gave up on shariah rather than keep it?

Are you trying to make our fun or something like that. History is not reality

I value country over religion whats wrong with that attitude?

Being secular doesnot mean being irreligeous it means the state as an institution has no religion
No more draconian laws like Qasas and Diyat

Qasas and diyat are not man made laws. These laws have been mentioned in the Quran. So please show some respect. I have already said that people who have secular mindset have weak bonds with the religion. What alternative do you have for a person who kills innocent people.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

what is the point of their existence

This is false argument that I hear often. There is never any point in existance beyond the entity itself? What is point of existance of US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belguim, Saudia Arabia, Yeman and on and on. You exist therefore you are. When I woke this morning I did not start asking what is point of my existance. What matters is you exist.

The entity that existed prior to 1947 was entirely created by Britain. It was Made in Britain. Yes Pakistan is majority Muslim amd the provinces that make it were Muslim dominant before 1947. Those of us who support secularism do so not because (most) are against Islam. The problem in pakistan is there are dozens of splinters of Islam with major Shia/Sunni divide. Bringing religion into the public realm just opens up can of worms because those diffferant religious groups led by Mullah's try to get their brand of Islam to shape the state. This is recipe for Mullah madness and continous infighting which happens in Pakistan. We need to go back to the set up during President Ayub Khan's days.

so Muslims could have their own country in the Indian Subcontinent?

And they do today. However how will secularism take the country away from them? They are 97% majority and they will remain Muslim.

 

[Zibago]

bhai na hamara islamic republic se wasta hai na pakistan se . hamara kya jo dil kary name rakheen

Bhai kisi arabi ko chera to wapis ana parey ga na

We never implemented the Islamic law since

Are you trying to make our fun or something like that. History is not reality


Qasas and diyat are not man made laws. These laws have been mentioned in the Quran. So please show some respect. I have already said that people who have secular mindset have weak bonds with the religion. What alternative do you have for a person who kills innocent people.

We implemented parts of it and the results are there for us to see utter chaos

These are the same set of laws that helped Ramon Davis and Sharukh Jatoi escape they are a loop hope for the wealthy to buy their way out of murder

The alternate is what is done in rest of world try them and jail them no blood money no pardoning

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

This is false argument that I hear often. There is never any point in existance beyond the entity itself? What is point of existance of US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belguim, Saudia Arabia, Yeman and on and on. You exist therefore you are. When I woke this morning I did not start asking what is point of my existance. What matters is you exist.

The entity that existed prior to 1947 was entirely created by Britain. It was Made in Britain. Yes Pakistan is majority Muslim amd the provinces that make it were Muslim dominant before 1947. Those of us who support secularism do so not because (most) are against Islam. The problem in pakistan is there are dozens of splinters of Islam with major Shia/Sunni divide. Bringing religion into the public realm just opens up can of worms because those diffferant religious groups led by Mullah's try to get their brand of Islam to shape the state. This is recipe for Mullah madness and continous infighting which happens in Pakistan. We need to go back to the set up during President Ayub Khan's days.


And they do today. However how will secularism take the country away from them? They are 97% majority and they will remain Muslim.

Just because our religion is hijacked by people who propagate sectarianism does not mean we start support secularism. It is our fault that we failed to implement the Quran in our own lives. That's we have who are brain washing people in the name of religion. I support Islamic Law for our state. The only problem is its implementation.

Bhai kisi arabi ko chera to wapis ana parey ga na


We implemented parts of it and the results are there for us to see utter chaos

These are the same set of laws that helped Ramon Davis and Sharukh Jatoi escape they are a loop hope for the wealthy to buy their way out of murder

The alternate is what is done in rest of world try them and jail them no blood money no pardoning

The Diyat law comes into play when someone unintentionally kills other muslim. Was this the case with davis. By the way Rehmaan Malik was being more loyal to the west. In Diyat, you do not blackmail the aggrieved party.
Chapter 4 verse 92-93
It is not for a believer (Muslim) to kill any believer, except by mistake. Whoever kills a believer by mistake, then, a believing slave has to be freed, and the blood money must be paid to his family, unless they forgo it. 43 If he (the victim) belongs to a people hostile to you and is a believer, then, a believing slave has to be freed. 44 If he (the victim) belongs to a people between whom and you there is treaty, then, blood money is to be paid to his family, 45 and a believing slave to be freed. Whoever does not find one has to fast for two consecutive months. This is repentance prescribed from Allah’s side. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (92) Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Jahannam (Hell) where he shall remain forever, and Allah shall be angry with him and shall cast curse upon him, and He has prepared for him a mighty punishment. (93)